Just saw a video of a lovely young Wolkentanz ll and it struck me that most of them are very similar in type. It is a more modern type and he really adds elasticity. And of course the W-line engine.
And he has lots of offspring under saddle and proven.
It is interesting to hear that Saint Sandro is now “a saint”. He must have changed a lot since his SPT - he was not a paragon of rideability there.
[QUOTE=DownYonder;7986476]
It is interesting to hear that Saint Sandro is now “a saint”. He must have changed a lot since his SPT - he was not a paragon of rideability there.;)[/QUOTE]
All I can say is that this horse has been the same horse since the day I met him as a weanling, very easy to handle and rideable. I think everyone that has met him and seen him out and about in person would agree that he is always the same easy going horse.
As for what he produces… I have a coming 5 yr old mare by him that I broke and have trained by myself. I have taken her cubbing as a 3 yr old, trail riding, shows, and more. I am a regular adult amateur rider that has a busy work schedule. This filly/mare is the same ridden 3x a week as she is if she has 2 weeks off. I can’t say this about her dam. If fact, I felt safer riding her out and about on her as a 3yr old than I did with her dam at 15 yrs (BTW I was showing her dam 3rd level). The filly is an improvement on her dam, more push from behind, a freer shoulder, and a great mind. And very consistent with what I have seen with every one of his foals that I have had the pleasure of meeting (which is close to 90% of them).
Lets get back to the OPs question. 
As a rule, I don’t generally post on threads about stallions who have been through the SPT. Nor do I state an opinion about what they pass on to their progeny. But I feel like this is a good example of why we no longer live stream the Stallion Testing and why it is important for breeders to attend the SPT live when they can.
Saint Sandro was THREE years old when he came in for the SPT. He always came out willing and ready to do his job. He was very easy to work with and very rideable. Especially for a THREE year old. Horses, like humans, have moments of error or lack of better judgement. The judge riders take their greenness into consideration as well as the fact that they practically don’t know the stallions and their riding style or judgement in the moment can be a factor. This is not a competition or show where perfection is needed. Bucking, playing, or even one refusal is not something that is counted against the stallion unless it continues and is obvious the stallion is using it to “evade” work. This is also the reason why there are scores given during the training period. It is important that the scores the stallions receive are fair and true to their personality during this time, since they will stay with them for the rest of their life. We all know young stallions can be very excited around all the spectators, bleachers, etc. So it is important that they get scores during their normal working day as well.
Again, when it comes to any stallion, it is helpful to make reference to their INDIVIDUAL scores when it comes to assessing their rideability, character, etc. instead of observation off of a video feed. Especially when it comes to rideability. Look at the scores. There is where you will find the answers you are looking for.
Saint Sandro: Other issues aside, I wouldn’t look to a stallion whose dam is an Arab pony to add length of leg or hind end power.
I lacked reading comprehension when I recommended Benetton Dream.
Finding Fresh recommendations isn’t so easy.
Rubinus
Rubignon
Maybe Freestyle
Connaiseur is lovely, if still a bit young.
Pablo could be interesting if you wanted more jump, but looking at your lovely mare, I think you might want something a bit lighter. I’d even add Benidetto or maybe Qredit (if young doesn’t put you off) to the list.
Let us know what you decide.
[QUOTE=ChocoMare;7985349]
Peek at Saint Sandro
Refinement and, while he’s not that tall, the Sandro Hit height tends to come out.[/QUOTE]
I’d have to agree with ChocoMare… I personally have an almost 15.3hh coming 2 year old standing out in the field… out of a 16 hand TB mare. Obviously throwing height from somewhere and consistently… Beyond pleased with his temperament and movement - his dam was just a plain Jane mover… he on the other hand is pretty fancy, cant wait to get him under saddle… AND he’s by Saint Sandro. I would hands down breed my mare to him again. No questions asked. I would honestly be lying to you if I said I was an Arabian person… because I’m not, at all… but I couldn’t argue with what was being produced. I wanted something correct and athletic… and thats what I got.
Interesting that so many Saint testimonials over the years tend to be new users or users who only post on threads where his name is mentioned.
I think he’s a cute stallion, but I have’t seen any evidence that he stamps for anything. So many of the mares he breeds aren’t typical WB sport horse mares that it would be interesting to see what he would produce with such a made. If he were mine, I decide what market I wanted him to serve and focus on that market. No stallion can be all things to all mares & he seems to get bred to everything from small ponies to big saddlebred mares to the occasional WB made.
You have a lovely mare with a nice pedigree as you have many options since she is not from the common R, D, W, S lines. Also, since you are intending to breed for a specific discipline, dressage, I would look at stallions that 1) did well themselves in the sport and/or 2) have produced horses that have done well in the sport (along with the other qualities you are looking for…long legged, good temperament, good engine). When I say have done well in sport (either themselves and/ or offspring) I mean at the upper levels. This way you are reducing the “unknowns” of what you might produce and have a greater chance of producing what you desire. In NA I think you have many options and a few not yet mentioned , unless I missed it:
Florianus
Liberty Gold (he has produced a very large % Elite mares, very AA friendly, fabulous mare line. W for engine, L for refinement)
Bugatti (may not add super length of leg, but certainly checks all other parameters)
And this is a stallion never mentioned…Richmond HL. He himself is doing relatively well at FEI levels. He is a bit “relaxed” for being a stallion which hinders him being a super star for a pro ride but has a great AA temperament. I have now seen a few of his offspring under saddle and I have been surprised by how nice…and long legged they were. One in particular o/o a jumper bred mare was just super.
I was also going to add Bugatti to my list, but I didn’t think he was available fresh.
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;7988189]
I was also going to add Bugatti to my list, but I didn’t think he was available fresh.[/QUOTE]
As Bugatti has been sold to the RCMP and is no longer standing to the public, he is only available by frozen from Hilltop Farm.
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;7987145]
Interesting that so many Saint testimonials over the years tend to be new users or users who only post on threads where his name is mentioned.[/QUOTE]
I’ve only ever “seen” him on the forums, and it’s always with a similar number of few-post authors. His website says he’s FEI, but centerline scores says otherwise.
[QUOTE=Tradewind;7988455]
As Bugatti has been sold to the RCMP and is no longer standing to the public, he is only available by frozen from Hilltop Farm.[/QUOTE]
Oh, totally forgot about that! Sorry, OP.
[QUOTE=Blume Farm;7987177]
And this is a stallion never mentioned…Richmond HL. He himself is doing relatively well at FEI levels. He is a bit “relaxed” for being a stallion which hinders him being a super star for a pro ride but has a great AA temperament. I have now seen a few of his offspring under saddle and I have been surprised by how nice…and long legged they were. One in particular o/o a jumper bred mare was just super.[/QUOTE]
I am glad to hear this about Richmond foals, Blume! I saw Richmond go at Devon. He was lovely to watch - not a lot of knee action but he flowed effortlessly through his tests and looked to have a wonderful demeanor. I have put him on my radar!
[QUOTE=Tradewind;7988955]
I am glad to hear this about Richmond foals, Blume! I saw Richmond go at Devon. He was lovely to watch - not a lot of knee action but he flowed effortlessly through his tests and looked to have a wonderful demeanor. I have put him on my radar![/QUOTE]
Yes, if you look him up on centerline you will see he is pretty consistent with his scores at PSG-I1/I2. True, he is not going to compete on the International level against the likes of Valegro. But he is a good National quality horse with a very AA temperament. At one of our show facilities here they have turn out paddocks at each barn. I have seen him turned out in these paddocks just “hanging out”, no screaming, no antics with plenty of horse commotion around him.
[QUOTE=ProspectHill;7983360]
Rubinus is an engaging suggestion.[/QUOTE]
Here is a discussion on Rubinus and Regazzoni, both by Rubinstein:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?424445-Regazzoni-or-Rubinus-or
I don’t know anything about Rubinus, but I have a 2008 Regazzoni gelding, and he is lovely. Smart, fun personality with beautiful, elastic, swingy gaits. Huge overreach to his walk, the most comfortable canter, and amazing trot. Very elegant face and build.
I appreciate all the responses. I’ve been tracking down more info on each
Thank you for the compliments Blume Farm! ISF liked Florianus as well. I like the pedigree on Richmond HL. I’m surprised I never encountered him in my search.
Just as an update, we went out to ISF and High Point Hanoverians last week. This week we are trying to go to Hilltop and to Soprano’s farm.
If anyone has suggestions of stallions to see on the east coast, feel free to chime in. We will be going through the VA, PA, MD, NJ.
All the stallion owners have been incredible to work with!
A POV from a photographer…
Over the years I’ve seen some pretty elastic babies and a few stallions stand out as consistent in producing elasticity. Freestyle babies seem to be pretty, along with elasticity. Wild Dance babies are really gumby like and he seems to add length of leg when needed. Many times these two stallions have the Top Foals at the AHS, OldNA & GOV Inspections. Keep in mind I’m in Nor Cal, that said they have been super babies by these two boys.
ProspectHill, you have a lovely mare. I have an Idocus daughter too and understand why you would be happy with a carbon copy. Have you considered Special D (Breezy Hill South) or Gaspard de la Nuit (DG Bar Ranch)? They are both lovely KWPN stallions.
Thank you stripes and SusanneSP! Looking into your suggestions now. I just found both of your pages on FB SusanneP I would love to see your Idocus mare!
From the farm visits we absoluetly like Florianus II, Sinatra Song, Coeur D’Amour and Sternlicht. Soprano’s visit is this weekend. I realize all of these are different types. Any info on any of these gentlemen feel free to chime in or PM.
Again, ISF, Hilltop, High Pint Hanoverians and Sopranos owner have all been very willing to discuss my mare in depth and were great for the visits. We also went to Hyperion Stud and Virginia Field Hunters (where Concerto Grosso stands). We didn’t go to these regarding this mare but wanted to add that they were both wonderful to work with as well.
Florianus had such a kind and friendly personality.
My fiancé described being in youngsters paddocks at HPH as being “in a sea of puppies” because they were all so wonderful, curious and loving.
Sternlicht was extremely well behaved both on the ground and under saddle. This is definitely one to watch. He’s a stunner. Very talented indeed.
And most importantly Chantilly (the mare being discussed) is doing very well
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