Just be the cool kid. Cool kids don’t need to explain themselves. It comes with territory of cool.
If your horse is going calmly and better than everyone else’s. I agree with everyone else.
If your horse is misbehaving and acting up and theirs are not. Then maybe there is merit in what they are saying.
Open your mind. You can learn something from everybody.
My mum was most surprised when she learned something from my brother at 4 years old. She had already brought up 2 kids. Who would have thought that you would learn something from a 4 year old.
She actually can’t remember what it was just the greatest feeling of surprise that she learned something from him.
I know exactly why I am doing something. I can tell them why I am doing it that way. If asked I can say why and if they have a better reason for me to do it another way I am willing to listen. I find these types of conversations fascinating. I can carry a conversation on while lunging, riding or grooming if somone is interesting enough.
I can incorporate their way into what I do or not. Or most likely tell them why they should not be doing what they are doing.
I answer questions. I do not offer advice… unless I see a newbie ripping a comb through a tail. Then I can’t stop myself!!!
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Of course if I see something dangerous happening I would say something without being asked.
<SuzieQNutter>:If your horse is misbehaving and acting up and theirs are not. Then maybe there is merit in what they are saying.
Open your mind. You can learn something from everybody.
Sorry, I can’t reply w/quote for some reason. SuzieQ, there is merit to the idea of being able to learn from others, even those you don’t expect to.
But as someone who is a relatively serious rider surrounded by casual pleasure riders with whom I sometimes socialize, I do feel compelled to point out that I and these riders have very different ideas about what constitutes “misbehaving” in many instances.
They ride local trails and participate in fun shows and parades. Their horses have temperaments and training that make them outstanding performers in those activities. Their horses are lovely and well-suited; I adore them.
I study dressage. While my 27yo mare is suitable for those activities, she still has more spook and opinion than most of my neighbors’ horses. She’s 27 and every day is a blessing; the fact that she is still sound and wants to work is an unmeasurable blessing to me. She doesn’t need to change a single thing as far as I’m concerned.
Back to the misbehaving. I have a 18yo TB/Trak mare with some lower-level accomplishments in dressage and baby-weenie eventing, training beyond the basics all done by me. She also has cervical spine arthritis and suspected, though unconfirmed kissing spines. She is, understandably, cold-backed. To make her life more pleasant, I longe before riding. Sometimes she tosses a buck. Sometimes not. Her longe time not only allows her to start her warm-up w/o weight on her back, but also gives me crucial information via her performance about how she feels and what carefully targeted exercises she needs that day for her physical comfort and well-being.
The occasional well-meaning, but completely uninformed suggestions are neither wanted nor appreciated. I’m pretty blunt on the matter. I’ve consulted with vets and trainers who are nationally known about this mare and have zero interest in hearing from anyone who has not rehabbed a horse from the same condition to at least state or regional level competitiveness in my chosen discipline. The people who have remained friends with me get it.
I also lease a 21yo dressage schoolmaster, bit of a touchy mare, but honest and a great and humbling teacher for me. She is … let’s say “quirky” … but not dangerous. She is a more reactive horse. This one is tougher, as she does hack and I do run into neighbors when I venture off the property. I get everlastingly tired of the comments about “misbehavior” and suggestions for dumbing her down over legitimate spooks or protests over an incorrect aid. I need this mare to be that sensitive so that she can continue to teach me. I cannot afford more than a weekly, or occasionally twice-weekly lesson, so the fact that she has retained her sensitivity for the last two years with me is a incredible boon. I can have the benefit of a schoolmaster without the expense of full training. She doesn’t need to be a bombproof trail horse. She needs to be a sensitive dressage teacher. I have more trouble getting this across to my neighbors, and am not sure that any really understand. The ones who want to remain friends have learned to just smile, shake their heads and expect my odd preference for a “dangerous” and “poorly trained” (in their eyes) horse.
Sometimes you have to be blunt if the polite things don’t work when you try them.
Upon noticing the approach, “Let me stop you right there, Mary, I’ve got this! I’m happy to chat after I longe/ride/groom.”
“Oh, naw, honey I’m good.”
“No, really, I’m serious, please stop.”
BE THE HORSE. They don’t mince words. They pin their ears and then bite.
But then don’t ask their advice, ever. That blurs lines.
I’ve always found the 5-second blank stare followed by “I beg your pardon?” works pretty well.
My favorite barn owner would drink wine and sit on her porch in the evening and watch me ride. I had a lovely green but talented young Ottb that was one of her favorite horses in the barn, and she really was a very nice lady. I don’t know how many nights she told me I should try parelli, he would love it. I always just gave her the “No thanks, I don’t think I’ll try that!” And we had a good relationship until I left.
Annoying? Yes. But the care and facilities were worth it, even if the whole facility had been full of parelli lovers I would have been polite and stayed.
What about replying with, “can you show me what you mean, on YOUR horse?”
Because, why are they hanging around, watching you, don’t they work/ride their own horses?
Sounds like, if asked them to get their horses and, show you, they would no longer bother you with suggestions.
Some people are all talk.
I have dressage horses too.
Mine is also cold backed. To the point that he rodeo bucks when out of work and the girth is first done up.
I tack up for a cold backed horse. The girth is done up ultra slowly. I lunge first. I was told he ALWAYS bucks in canter on the lunge. This horse was sold to me as too much to handle if not ridden 3 days a week.
He has never bucked on the lunge for me. I have been taught to lunge. I lunge properly. I dont run them around on the end of a rope. He is perfect on the lunge now.
As far as I am concerned a dressage horse can do anything and will do it politely. Whether it is walk a circle, canter over a log or wade through a stream. They can gallop up a hill and walk on a loose rein afterwards. A horse can be sensitive to an aid at all times without meaning that this makes them look hard to ride.
I rode him yesterday after 6 weeks off. Yes a few rodeo bucks before walking to the arena but not a hoof wrong in the arena. He cantered on the lunge and under saddle and he was still fit. I was extremely happy with him.
So with you IRL I would love to have a conversation at the barn about why your horse acts up the way it does.
But as I said I only have these conversations if you ask me. I don’t start them.
SuzieQwrote: So with you IRL I would love to have a conversation at the barn about why your horse acts up the way it does.
And you made my point quite well, thank you. Clearly, you and I have very different ideas about what constitutes “acting up.”
If my mare with spinal arthritis – exceeding well trained and longed most achingly correctly by very competent me – tosses a single buck, an unusual occurrence, that is a message: I hurt. It is information for me, not misbehavior. If she resists a confirmed movement under saddle or quickens in a challenging exercise, again, that is not misbehavior, but information: This is too hard just now, or this hurts just now. I am able to use that info to determine what exercises I need to present to address that. And I am, fortunately, experienced enough to be able to determine when this is just not our day for project X, Y or Z and to know when it’s better to just knock off for the day and try again tomorrow, not because there are any training or behavioral issues, but because, like a human with some wear/tear/issues, the mare sometimes just has a crap day where things don’t work.
If my FEI schoolmistress spooks on a hack because a car blasts by, or dogs suddenly appear and bark at her, that is not misbehavior, that is normal horse behavior. If a companion gets overly close and accidentally brushes her flank with a whip, rope or an exuberantly removed jacket and she squirts forward or sideways in response, that is not misbehavior, but an understandable misinterpretation of a stimulus as a forward-driving aid. (For the latter, I’d also argue, more a mistake on the part of a riding companion for getting close enough to give my horse an inadvertent aid, but that’s a completely different conversation.)
Most of my neighbors consider these two mares “difficult” simply because they are fit and high-energy and like to go-go-go. Because what they (the neighbors) consider a normal leg aid is to these mares a wahoo-let’s-gallop leg aid. Or because the schoolmistress is a seasoned show horse (I can school her in a ring while it’s being dragged and watered), but a green trail horse who makes normal green trail horse mistakes. (And, as I said, trail riding is not the job I got her to do, so as long as she hacks safely for me and does nothing that puts others in danger, I have zero effort available to put toward making her a “good” trail horse in the eyes of others.)
That was my point: That what some might see as “misbehavior” or “acting up,” others might not. So if anyone’s offers to have a conversation about another person’s horse behaving poorly are received with confusion or hostility, it’s not a bad idea to keep in mind that the behaviors in question might have different meaning to the horse owner. 
Hahaha! This conversation has made me remember some running-into-neighbors-while-hacking “incidents” that are quite funny. Here is a great example:
Ran into sweet parade-riding neighbor and her awesome QH … really great, considerate hacking partners. She invited me to accompany her to a neighboring field where she had acquired permission to ride, and offered to introduce me to the neighbor so I could also gain permission to ride. Yay! I offered to get the gate, lined up Miss Pickypants Schoolmistress, reached for the gate … damn, my arm’s too short! So I needed to do a simple side-pass over a couple of steps. Piece of cake, right?
Well, maybe not so much on a highly tuned horse who was still pretty new to me. I applied my right leg to step left, which should have worked. However, I was weighting my right seatbone, with my right hip slightly forward and my left leg slightly back. So Miss Mare obliges me by picking up a lovely collected canter down the fenceline. IOW, she did exactly what I asked her to do when I activated my inside leg, just not what I intended to ask for. (This happens with great frequency, since she is honest and I essentially suck at dressage.)
Sweet neighbor was horrified that Miss Mare “took off” with me and had no shortage of suggestions for me, none of which would have addressed the basic problem: I failed to pay sufficient attention to my whole body, and gave the wrong aid for what I wanted to do. Miss Mare gave the correct response to what I did do … and that is exactly why I have her in my backyard! So why would I want to change. Sweet neighbor doesn’t get it, but has come to accept that I am a big weirdo and decided to tolerate me for my “good” qualities and just laugh and roll her eyes when we disagree on things like that. (She really is an incredibly sweet neighbor!)
coloredhorse, I love that story of your misunderstanding with your mare and your sweet neighbor!
I have a few riding friends like this too - we each have horses that suit our needs well and have learned to accept each others’ differences and occasionally have a good natured laugh about them. Last year, my main trail riding buddy rode primarily large horses (16-17h) while I was on a 13 or 14 h pony - we made quite the pair!
As for the OPs question, to me how I respond really depends on who is offering the advice and how it is being offered. If it seems genuine and is from someone with a totally different background I might briefly explain why I’ve chosen to do things a certain way (for ex: bib or chaser clips on my horses who live outside 24/7 vs. full clips for friend’s horses who live mostly stalled). If they are just the type who is not really trying to be helpful but wanting to talk up how their way is the only/best way I will either not respond at all or say that I’ve made a plan with my trainer/vet/farrier about it and am committed to seeing that through before trying other options.
I completely understand. As I said my boy rodeo bucks when the girth is first tightened. I do not view this as misbehaving. I put a long lead on and ask him what he is going to do today, I do not stop him or admonish him or encourage him. He doesn’t want to buck. It is a reaction. Not something he does to be bad. It diminishes when he is in work.
It is good to have a horse who will react when trail riding. A car came from the other side of the road to hit us. My little guy tore a muscle in his rump jumping out of the way. The horse behind didn’t react and was hit in the leg.
What I think of as misbehaving is horses jogging, barging other horses, knocking into other horses, bucking and kicking. Taking off and not standing to wait for traffic, someone who has dismounted to open a gate, or for you if you are the one remounting. You did not say your horse did any of that.
I was talking at the fenceline with a western guy on a quarter horse. His dog hit the electric fence. ZAP. Both horses spun in opposite directions. The 16.2hh hot thoroughbred dressage horse in dressage saddle, I had him back facing the fence and standing on a loose rein in less than a second. We didn’t leave the fence.
We watched the guy going at a gallop sideways, trying to stop his horse with the dog disappearing with it. This was more dangerous as the horse was not looking where it was going. There were ditches, rocks and if the dog got in the way dogs somersault horses.
Yes my guys are all thoroughbreds. My mare is a very hot quarterhorse/stock horse. They are all allowed to react to a fright. I would never stop that. But they have been taught that when they get a fright they stand still. Not take off.
I do this with Spooky Object Training which is different training to Desensitization. Spooky Object Training drops the pressure during the training. I consider Desensitization with not dropping pressure equal to cruelty. But again that is just my humble opinion.
OP, this will happen to you for your whole life with horses. I’m pretty sure it even happens to BNTs on occasion.
I think the post about the “run away” dressage mare sums the situation up really well. Your barnmates are giving you advice based on where they are with their horses. You, being at an entirely different place with your horse, find their advice completely offbase and wrong. Which it may be, for you. But not necessarily for them.
I don’t know if this applies to your situation, but I remember when I was pretty sure my particular discipline was superior to all others and therefore any advice from another discipline had to be wrong - I mean, advice that didn’t issue forth from my trainer’s mouth couldn’t be worth anything, right? Yeah.
no:
Since you will always have unsolicted advice, my advice is to try and figure out why you find it so infuriating. Are you insulted that they don’t recognize your expertise? Are you angered because you find their advice dangerous and worry they might cause someone to hurt themselves or their horse? Do you perceive it as a confrontation, and you’re not comfortable with those? Or is it something else?
And I say this as someone who is still trying to follow my own advice!:yes:
Bless your hearts, you sweet, kind-hearted, optimistic people who suggest that these folks are just “making conversation”. Sure, there are many pleasant people at my barn who just make conversation.
It’s the folks who brazenly come out with “you should ____” that drive me crazy. Esp when they do not ride / barely ride / do not ride in my discipline.
As to whether my horse is acting up and maybe I really need help with that: that was just one random example. The other end of the spectrum might be comments on me wearing spurs (little prince of wales) on a lazier horse. That the horse would have more energy if I fed it more grain. “You should feed x amount of grain” (an amount which would no joke be 5x what he gets now, an amount of grain I have never seen any horse be fed ever, and this a horse who needs to lose a wee bit of weight.) I guess that person is partly right: I wouldn’t need spurs anymore because A.) horse would be dead in the ground from colic/laminitis, or B.) I’d be in the hospital.
No, the people I’m talking about are not just making pleasant conversation, or even just trying to be helpful. Someone (a non-rider) recently said to me that one of my horses “isn’t progressing” because I am not doing Parelli type groundwork. This is a horse that came me to with no education at all, scared to death of everything, and after 2 months is mostly acting like a normal civilized horse who can w/t/c on lunge and undersaddle and is starting over fences. I am pleased with that. “Not progressing?” Excuse me? That is an effing rude to thing to say. That is the comment that almost made me blow. I bit my tongue, I said something like “Well. I really have to get going now” and turned and walked away.
The reason for the barn is proximity, period. I don’t want to board an hour away at my trainer’s barn. The barn is a mixed bag of disciplines. That’s pretty common in my area. Any upper level trainer is an hour+ drive away. I am very fortunate that she travels to me when she can (and others around here, who are in the same boat.)
I get there is some friction between disciplines. The people who think wearing spurs makes you a big meanie and you should instead do groundwork games to learn your horse’s personality… and then people like me who think horse yoga and psychics is nonsense. But the difference is… I smile and nod about that and don’t go off telling them that what they believe is nonsense. I thought that was just, you know, minding your own beeswax and having manners.
LOL at the comment “my anger is inappropriate.” Interesting. So you’re saying I should just accept rude comments and be happy about it? That’s like saying, “you should enjoy being micromanaged at work, because it means your boss really cares!” :winkgrin:
I’m trying to digest everyone’s replies, and I guess in the end, I’m trying to realize that people generally mean well, even when their comments come off as RUDE to me. Secondly, I need to figure out how to be assertive without coming off as a major b*tch.
I don’t go around telling people what they should do with their horses, especially in disciplines different than mine. I just wish others would do the same.
The barn is supposed to be my sanctuary, dammit.
Well, there you go. If you really feel like people are being intentionally rude to you - and you’re in the situation so are a better judge of their motivation than we are - just say that.
“I never tell other people what to do with their horses, because I think it’s rude. I wish other people would stop telling me what to do with my horse.”
Of course, you won’t make any friends by doing that. But people will more than likely stop talking to you, so you won’t be simmering the whole time you’re at the barn. That can’t be helping your horse.
If they are die-hard Parelli-ites, good luck! The worst of those are not going to stop, and may escalate. If you speak up, they will become more outspoken on how abusive you are. Not that ALL NH folks are this way, but the ones that have earned the reputation - they are a nightmare. Nightmare stories include them “playing the seven games” in the arena while you try to ride, i.e, turning loose a wild herd of mayhem and thinking that’s okay. The best Parelli-ite I ever met had a horse she could work at liberty, pointing at jumps to have it jump. NEVER saw her jump it undersaddle, so it was kind of a big, expensive agility dog, but she was nice and she indicated the crazy Parelli-ites at the same facility made her nuts, so there’s different flavors of Kool-Aid even within each clique (crazy knows no bounds!). But if the people at your barn are “dedicated,” you may have to start looking at other, more like-minded barns… If they are just annoying, well, that’s one aspect of life at most boarding barns.
I would take something as a rude comment if (a) the person knew as much or more than me and (b) the person was phrasing their statement in a way that was designed to make me feel badly, or embarrass me in front of others.
Everything else, I take as an ignorant comment. This means that (a) the person really doesn’t know very much at all and (b) is saying things in order to make themselves look knowledgable, or to just make noise and conversation.
I have to say, in a lot of ways, I find ignorant comments from people that I am friendly with, quite hard to deal with! For instance I am summarizing the problem-solving I am doing over a training issue, and an acquaintance starts to say earnestly: have you tried homeopathy? And gives me a sales pitch on that and how it has worked on her personally. I don’t have the heart to say that homeopathy is not a credible treatment, except to the extent that it works as a placebo on humans, because I don’t want to insult her.
About a decade ago, a dear friend was dying of cancer. He was terminal when diagnosed, and had accepted the inevitable. He once mentioned how very difficult it was, when so many friends and acquaintances responded to the news with pitches for miracle cures. He said they would come up with some random fake cure off the internet, tell him that he had to do it, and then get very aggressive and almost angry when he demurred, basically in effect saying “well, you are going to go ahead and die then, if you won’t take my advice.” He said he realized that it was about the friends being upset and in denial about his situation, and not having anything to offer. But he was finding it very, very wearing to have to have these conversations so often. He moved in circles where people were all into alternative health and pseudo science, but he had a science background and a full understanding of his treatment options.
Now, none of his friends dreamed that they were being rude, and they were certainly not trying to one-up him or show him up, or make him angry. They had no idea how difficult they were making things for him.
So how do you shut these people up?
Maybe dump way more information on them than they can process? In very technical terms? When the nonrider says your horse isn’t progressing, give them a big blurt about finding the stride distance down the gymnastic or whatever it is your are working on, tell them that is your main concern right now, and then ask them their advice on something that they don’t remotely understand. Ask then iuf they want to bring their horse out one day when you have the poles set up, and ride a jumps course. Ask them what Parelli has to say about jumping. Turn the question around, put them on the spot, and make them regret that they ever brought it up. To the comments about feed, blast them with technical details about NSC and mineral levels. Bore them silly. If they try to respond, up the ante so you are above their knowledge base. Have a more complicated reason why not for each time they try to press their point.
If they can’t really understand what you are saying, you will get a reputation for knowing a lot!
I don’t know if this will really work of course, or if the effort to overwhelm the ignorant will stop them or not. If they still persevere, you can say: why don’t you come watch my trainer when she is out next?
whitewolf, I feel your pain, I do. Some people only know what they know, and they know that they know best. The more experienced an owner, the less likely they are to be this person, unless they do dressage, in which case we should be blessed as mere mortals to hear them opine.
I’M KIDDING, DQs, relinquish your whips.
I would consider staring dumbfounded/puzzled, and after a moment saying “we’re good, thanks.” and repeat ad nauseum.
I really don’t care what ‘they’ think of me and my horse, I just don’t. I don’t want to be ugly, but I do want to nip that ****.
[QUOTE=whitewolfe001;8988517]
…
Interesting. So you’re saying I should just accept rude comments and be happy about it? That’s like saying, “you should enjoy being micromanaged at work, because it means your boss really cares!” :winkgrin:
…[/QUOTE]
The supervisor/worker analogy is not appropriate as in that case there is a power/submission relationship in a supervisor/worker relationship.
In the barn case, these people are all your “peers”…eg., boarders, like you.
[QUOTE=whitewolfe001;8988517]…
I’m trying to digest everyone’s replies, and I guess in the end, I’m trying to realize that people generally mean well, even when their comments come off as RUDE to me. Secondly, I need to figure out how to be assertive without coming off as a major b*tch.
I don’t go around telling people what they should do with their horses, especially in disciplines different than mine. I just wish others would do the same.
The barn is supposed to be my sanctuary, dammit.[/QUOTE]
IMHO…you have hit the nail on the head and need to ask why do these comments come off as rude and bother you so much.
You cannot control what other people say/do…one can only control one’s actions.
Consider this as a lesson in horsemanship…around horses one needs to be assertive without emotion…correcting a horse has to be done with detachment…without anger.
Saying you want to be “assertive without being a bitch” indicates that you DO equate being assertive with being a bitch…so perhaps this is an opportunity to practice Zen-like detachment.
