Game Over

[kfox]

Don’t be so judgmental

I’m sorry but I think a lot of these posts are judgmental and overgeneralizing. Sure, some sales are a hassle, and yes, some people are ill prepared. However, having a trainer does not make a potential buyer necessarily more educated or easier. Perhaps you have someone who’s purchased and trained many horses personally (not a pro) who is fully capable of making a solid purchasing decision. There are also lots of trainers who will be involved, albeit lightly (i.e., merely discussing the horse with a client) and want a huge commission…and also that commission could cloud their judgment of the horse. I think there are a lot of gray areas here and there should be respect for all parties concerned! This industry is already full of snobs and preconceived notions…let’s minimize that!

[Ophelia123]

It is also very frustrating on the profession/sellers side when amatuers misrepresent themselves and claim to be much further along in their riding than they truly are - as well as the expectation of a young horse to be perfect and “made” which i see more often than not. I know MANY ammy’s that are better than most trainers and certainly NOT ALL AMMYs fall under the catagorie which i am describing…but it does happen often…so on the sellers/profession end I like to be able to talk to a trainer or someone who is at least helping the buyer find a horse so I can more acuratly tell them what horse I have that would fit their description. I don’t want a person sitting on one of my greenies that is not qualified to be riding them - i pride myself in matching horse and rider, not just selling something to anyone who is willing to pay for something! But I also know there are MANY people in this business that do just that.

[Just_My_Style]

I started riding in 1979. If I can’t go looking for a horse and decide what I want at this point in my life with out the help of a trainer, then what is the point? Heck, the last horse I bought I went to look at with my 7 year old son. I liked the pony. He liked the pony. We paid cash and she was home the next day. No trainer. No problems. Everyone (including the pony) were happy.

[ExJumper]

[QUOTE=kfox;2867947]
I’m sorry but I think a lot of these posts are judgmental and overgeneralizing. Sure, some sales are a hassle, and yes, some people are ill prepared. However, having a trainer does not make a potential buyer necessarily more educated or easier. Perhaps you have someone who’s purchased and trained many horses personally (not a pro) who is fully capable of making a solid purchasing decision. There are also lots of trainers who will be involved, albeit lightly (i.e., merely discussing the horse with a client) and want a huge commission…and also that commission could cloud their judgment of the horse. I think there are a lot of gray areas here and there should be respect for all parties concerned! This industry is already full of snobs and preconceived notions…let’s minimize that![/QUOTE]

97% of the responses have been saying the same thing you are. Everybody is saying that having a trainer would probably not have made the outcome of these interactions any better or different…

[SillyHorse]

A long, long, LONG time ago, a friend and I were horseless and wanted to ride some nice horses, so we would periodically go “horse shopping.” One day I was the trainer and she was the buyer; next time, she’d be the trainer and I’d be the buyer. We weren’t kids; we were old enough and knowledgeable enough that we were never questioned as we took our turns at playing trainer.

Wrong! Terrible! Dishonest! And I would never consider doing anything like that again (although we did get to ride some mighty fine horses :yes: ). The point is that just because there is a “trainer” along doesn’t guarantee anything.

[TSWJB]

Ophelia123

if the amateur misrepresented their abilities and you can see the horse is too much for them, just tell them you can see the horse is unsuitable and ask them to get off.
there are many amateurs who are very capable and want to buy a horse without the trainer. if you exclude them, you may be missing out on a good sale!
the only reason i would see why sellers would not want amateurs trying the horses without the trainers is for the simple fact that most will not be allowed to buy the horse because the trainer will say no. for many reasons. and alot has to do with the fact that the trainer did not find the horse themselves. so many trainers will say no to something that an amatuer found themselves. and this is wasting the sellers time. and its not really fair.
so i think any amatuer who wants to go looking should make sure they have the balls to tell their trainer, this is the horse i love and the one i am going to buy. otherswise shop with the trainer.

[Trixie]

the only reason i would see why sellers would not want amateurs trying the horses without the trainers is for the simple fact that most will not be allowed to buy the horse because the trainer will say no.

A lot of us amateurs do not take kindly to being told we’re “not allowed” to purchase what we want, and a lot of us get rather peeved at sellers who think that for every amateur, this is the case.

If the ammy feels they need a trainer along (and many, MANY do), they should bring the trainer along. If they feel confident purchasing a horse by themselves, there is no reason they shouldn’t. Excluding amateurs who aren’t shopping with trainers, as I said before, can offend a large portion of a potential client base.

One would do better to ask a few questions to the amateur and see where they are on things. Ass-u-ming that all amateurs are going to decide based on trainer’s imput can be an enormous mistake.

FWIW, my trainer happily gives me lessons on whatever I bring to him. He’s been extremely accomodating in that respect. I realize not everyone is, but they ARE out there.

[SBT]

@spoiledsweet;2867088

I hate to say it, but people are nuts with our without trainers. I’ve had very wacky things happen regardless of professional involvement in the deals.

Ditto that! It happened recently at my barn. A girl came to try a horse (4 y/o greenie, but a solid citizen) 3x, twice with her trainer. They LOVED the horse, rode him well, and thought he was perfect. They took him home for a two week trial, and sent him back THE NEXT DAY. Why? Because he was a little amped up being in a new place, and bucked on the longe line. Trainer immediately decided he was too much horse, and admitted she had no experience with youngsters. She never even gave him a chance to settle in before making this decision. :rolleyes: :sigh:

So, sometimes, the TRAINER is the nutjob, not the buyer!

[witherbee]

I don’t think the OP thinks the outcome of with these two buyers would necessarily been different (meaning a sale) - she probably means that buyer #1 would have at least had a better understanding and more reasonalble expectations about the PPE, and buyer #2 would probably not have been there at all, as the trainer would have discussed price range with them first and discouraged shopping that far out of her range. Now we all have run into people who just won’t listen to their trainers, as well as trainers who are a discgrace to the word, but in general, I agree with her that she would have had a more educated buyer, or at least one where the trainer could have stepped in and explained things without the buyer thinking they were being hoodwinked. I HATE when we get down to negotiating the sale and the person says they don’t have the money and act like it’s up to me to figure out how to make this work for them. To me, if they don’t have the purchase price (which for my OTTBs is relatively low), then they have no business owning the horse at this time. Save up, and make sure you have enough in the bank or at least a plan for emergencies…

[Platinum_Equestrian]

@spoiledsweet;2867088

I hate to say it, but people are nuts with our without trainers. I’ve had very wacky things happen regardless of professional involvement in the deals.

Sad, but true.

[tidy_rabbit]

I have had a vet tell me a horse wouldn’t be suitable for what I want it for and has told me not to pursue the animal. This is coming from MY vet reviewing radiographs that the attending vet took. I wouldn’t expect a vet I hired to do the prepurchase remotely to make a recommendation one way or the other. However, I do have a very close working relationship with my vet and I always respect his opinion and seek it out, on horses I’m buying.

I would suspect that there was something more going on then just the scar if the buyer walked away from a horse that she put out 2K to vet. I’d bet the buyer was / is probably pissed that something came up after forking out a lot of money. Maybe it was just a gut feeling? Maybe she had another vet review the xrays etc and they saw something your vet didn’t? I’ve certainly been through this same thing.

The right buyer will come along, until then you’ve got to kiss all the toads…

[AdAblurr02]

[QUOTE=kittykeno;2867683]
SSFLANDON I just want you to know that there are amateurs out there that are more than capable of purchasing their own satisfactory mounts. You can count on me not to raise your frustration level…I only buy young horses from American breeders…no trainers involved.[/QUOTE]

Sweetie, you can come up and shop with us ANYTIME - I’ll buy you dinner and put you up overnight! Good ol’ Western hospitality.

FWIW - there’s also the whole “trainers clique” BS, where the TRAINERS put their little pointed heads together and the buyer AND seller are pretty much out of the loop until money is expected to be exchanged.

Then, there’s the trainer who gets their knickers in a bunch because horse owner/seller won’t send a good horse with no issues out for “trial” for a few weeks (!!) to somebody they don’t know from Adam. One horse screwed up by idiots on a “trial” is enough in this lifetime. :mad:

Then there’s the trainer who sets up a “viewing with another trainer”, appointment is cancelled at last minute due to somebody getting hurt or sick or whatever it was. We had gotten horse prepped, cleaned, clipped, and hauled to trainers’ barn - entailing board and training fees, of course - then no appointment. Supposed to reschedule in a week or so… eating money all the time. THEN trainer takes a trip to THAILAND over holidays… and wonders why we didn’t leave horse in their barn. Horse is home, fat and happy. Buyers trainer? dunno if that was for real or not!

Admittedly, in today’s sucky horse selling marketplace, having a trainer who will work FOR you is a good thing - but when they decide to get uppity and superior, things go downhill fast. And, the point about anybody can call themselves a pro is well taken… with the years of experience my hubby and I have between us, one would think we might “know something”, but we are still not “professional”… yeah, right .

[NOMIOMI1]

.

Alot of the Ammy’s I know do go out a buy horses that just are not going to work out for them or are completely too much horse. I myself learned the hard way about 3-4 times buying on my own. I still buy on my own but I have studied and learned about the important things to look for in a prospect and have been lucky enough to turn a few around. Its all chance anyway you look at it. Every time I buy and get a good one I wait for the other shoe to drop and some time it does. The horses my trainers have picked out over the years are sometimes out of my range or something they like more for themself than for me. I try to bring wise friends instead that are looking out for my interest not theirs.

[Hauwse]

I am sorry, but I have to weigh in here, and I no doubt will get a lot of flak for it.

I have been reading this post and it amazes me how many posters are saying directly or inadvertently that they are fully capable of finding quality horses without their trainers input.

A few things come to mind when I read these posts, there are a lot of crappy trainers out there who’s clients apparently have little regard, or respect for them, people are giving themselves more credit for finding their horses than they deserve, the horses they are finding are great in their eye’s only, or there are a bunch of people out there who are wasting money on trainers because they know as much or more than their trainers, and apparently do not need them.

Simply put finding a great horse is no easy task. Depending on the requirements of the horse, it can be the hardest part of the business. It is not something to be experimented with, or to be employed as some ego altering experience, nor is it some horsemanship badge acquiring task.

There are riders/trainers/professionals that compete at the top levels who would never think of buying a horse without significant input. Yet here on the BB 75% of us are capable of going it alone.

The truth is that this is a skill possessed by the very few, and is not one that came to those who have the skills easily. Does it happen that people fall into a great horse… yes, but let’s not confuse that with the type of knowledge and understanding it takes to find great horses on the regular, for a matrix of clients, skills, goals, etc.

I do not know who your trainers are but I feel for them. There are many, many great trainers out there who bust their**es on a daily bases for clients, have the same consideration for their clients as they do their families, and want nothing but the very best for their clients.

Apparently there are a number of people who have lost sight of the burden of responsibility a trainer takes on when they take on a client. It is not just about teaching you how to ride better etc. It’s easy to see a trainer as a dictator when your ego gets in the way, but think about some of the issues they have to deal with, like your safety! Trust me you have no idea what a dictator a clients death will make you.

I believe this is exactly why this thread was posted, because in the horse business everyone is an expert, and never is it more apparent then when it comes to buying, and evaluating horses, every armchair expert has access to you.

[Lucassb]

Yes, Hauwse, it amazes a LOT of professionals that there are amateurs out here who can buy their own horses successfully.

Doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

And for the record, it often has nothing at all to do with our regard for the trainers we employ.

I buy only for myself and wouldn’t presume to advise others, but of the horses I have now, the oldest (bought at 5, now semi retired) earned ribbons at A shows throughout the SE, including Zone ribbons in the adults. The one I am currently showing (also bought green, at 5) has earned ribbons from FL to VT and is ready to march into the A/O ring this year in the best company. The third is brand new and still a baby, just coming 4, so the jury’s still out on that one. However, one of the top BNT’s looked at him last week and offered me just short of double what I’d paid, so I think I did OK. (No, he’s not for sale, I only buy for myself.)

That being said, I value and appreciate my professional’s help. I have learned a lot from him and from my past trainers. But evaluating horses is not some magical power that is limited only to professionals. A lot of us have been doing this quite a while, and are perfectly capable of finding our own.

[ThatScaryChick]

[QUOTE=Just My Style;2867958]
I started riding in 1979. If I can’t go looking for a horse and decide what I want at this point in my life with out the help of a trainer, then what is the point? Heck, the last horse I bought I went to look at with my 7 year old son. I liked the pony. He liked the pony. We paid cash and she was home the next day. No trainer. No problems. Everyone (including the pony) were happy. :D[/QUOTE]

Amen. I don’t have a trainer and if I see a horse I want I will go without one, as I’ve always have. If someone tells me they won’t sell me their horse because I don’t have a trainer, well then they are out my money. Not every “ammy” needs to have someone else do their horse dealings for them. Many of us who are not trainers, are quite capable of purchasing our own horses.

[SSFLandon]

@RockinHorse;2867500

If this is what you want then you need to be willing to pay for an animal that is already competing at that height, not a prospect.

Five figures is not alot in some worlds of this sport. A young import doing the level threes going in a rubber snaffle that kids can ride is rightfully worth 5 figures on the AA hunter jumper circuit. In addition jumps like a freak with his front end and posses endless amounts of scope.

[SSFLandon]

@fourh mom;2867587

Sounds like these folks were just – that kind and it probably wouldn’t have mattered WHO else was w/them… if someone won’t listen to a vet, you think they’ll listen to a trainer any better?

Sounds like you’e not willing to listen to anything but your own opinion either.

And how can you find the logical reasoning to lump ‘non trainer havers’ into the one catagory of ‘folks who don’t want to pay’? There are just about as many reasons to not involve a ‘trainer’ as there are folks who don’t involve trainers. sylvia

You don’t have to be rude then smile about it. I am simply stating that having a trainer for those that have no clue can help to calify, hand hold or do whatever else is necessary to make a clear decision without wasting someones time of someones horses legs!! They don’t need to jump 40 jumps to then have some back out for no real reason. A trainer may have helped the first women understand the vetting results and for lady 2 she could have understood what costs were involved.

I’m not saying all Am’s are idiots just simply saying AGAIN that trainers are here for a reason. For those they buy on their own GREAT JOB but, many of you may end up unhappy or unsaddled…

Having a trainer or not is simply ones choice but, as a trainer working with trainers I find life to be easier…and so far have come across non pro’s who can’t buy a horse…though you must know everything based on your comments and that’s great for you…I’m sure others wish they were so lucky

[SSFLandon]

@fourh mom;2867587

Sounds like these folks were just – that kind and it probably wouldn’t have mattered WHO else was w/them… if someone won’t listen to a vet, you think they’ll listen to a trainer any better?

Sounds like you’e not willing to listen to anything but your own opinion either.

And how can you find the logical reasoning to lump ‘non trainer havers’ into the one catagory of ‘folks who don’t want to pay’? There are just about as many reasons to not involve a ‘trainer’ as there are folks who don’t involve trainers. sylvia

PS, if you read this thread you’ll notice that my opinion is like many others

[ponyjumper4]

the horses they are finding are great in their eye’s only
Which in reality, is all that matters as it’s their money.

I have bought 4 riding horses/ponies in my lifetime. Only one did my trainer help with and that’s just because she happened to come across her when riding her own horse at the indoor she boarded at during the winter. All but the first pony (which is another story in itself) I still own.