<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pwynnnorman:
BTW, speaking of BRP, what ever happened to Betty Fox down in Citra, FL? I looked at her BRP stallions about 15 years ago–she must have been one of the first importers. Haven’t heard much from of hers lately. Did she retire? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Betty is still in Florida and doing well and I am supposed to see her tomorrow night.
Here is a link to her farm:
Hi - I will look tonight - I know he was imported & 14.2 - very attractiveloking guy from photo.
Hopefully someone else has their issue handier?
…could be in stallion issue - I’ll check both.
Barb, I thought someone had already posted that kids CAN ride pony stallions in dressage and jumper classes, and that it’s only HUNTER classes where kids can’t ride stallions. Did I miss something?
Dune, I’m actually aiming for honies now. I have 2 horse mares that are 15.1 that produce gorgeous babies and one who is about 15.1 1/2-15.2 who also produces gorgeous babies. I’ve gotten Premiums out of these mares and everyone who sees them raves about how beautiful they are. I sold one of the foals specifically because the mare was ‘so small’. This particular buyer was about 5’1" and is HOPING the foal will stay small - she had fallen head over heels in love with the mare and her foal.
I have one foal coming this year out of my 15.1h mare to a stallion who is 13.1 or 2, so that one should top out at 14.2, but I’m breeding her back to Daily Hero and that foal will probably go a bit over. I’m going to try to get them show records as they grow up and sell them as VERY competitive small horses to people who are overhorsed. These GRP’s, as opposed to a lot of Section B Welsh, have a deeper heart girth and bigger barrel so they CAN take up a lot of leg and you don’t really look like you’re riding a pony and the good ones have the same gaits as horses. Heck, Benno can tell you that her ponies had to do the very excact same jumps in the chute, in the jumper ring, and on the cross country course as the horses - and they did it as well as most and better than some!!! Both Benno and Leslie can tell you that their ponies are out there beating the pants of horses in dressage competition. There is no such thing as a good horse in a bad size.
Benno wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Mary Lou - in Germany, the German Riding Pony mares are typically large pony size just as are the stallions, but a bit smaller, maybe 14H or 14.1H. Some of them are large, oversize, etc. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So do people have such mares here in the states (German Riding Pony mares), or are they using Welsh, etc for their mare base? I have learned in my Hanoverian breeding that the mare is the base on which all is built. Where does one find such mares that would be a truly valuable basis for a German Riding Pony breeding program here? Do already established breeders have fillies for sale, or is this a program that is still so young that breeders hang onto the fillies for themselves? Inquiring minds want to know. 
Hi Benno
Could you describe the difference between your sportpony registry and the Riding Pony Stud Book?
*** Yes. The Riding Pony is a stud book here and they are what you would term a breed registry. They are registered according to their breeding and shown in 2 categories - Show Pony & Show Hunter as is the case in the UK.
They go up to 14.2 here.
The basis essentially for it’s existance is for breeding, showing (in hand and under saddle) by it’s members
The Sport Pony Registry is just that for all different breeds of pony (as long as 14.2 and under) they are inspected for entry for the purposes of dressage, eventing, etc
The inspection process enters them into the registry as breeding and/or performance animals regardless of breed. Currently, we use ACE or German Oldenburg Stud Book inspectors to score our Sport Ponies here.
What ponies qualify for the (Australian)Riding Pony Studbook?
*** As the stud book is fairly advanced now, they are entered into the Riding Pony Stud Book by breeding and registered RP parents - not inspection as with a Sport Pony.
You can have ponies registered with both - as I do with my stallions
I’m trying to figure this out in terms of comparable registries and breeds in Germany and in the US, with ponies and with horses. Has Australia already invented the wheel so we don’t have to?
*** Yes. I feel alot could be gained by understanding more about those that have gone before you with respect to the Riding Pony.
You guys are a couple of years ahead on the Sport Pony registry, but we have the pony base ( ie many pony “suitable” breeds already in existence), which I think will move things in that deparment along rapidly.
Just wanted to add that RPSI also has a pony book and are inspecting and registering ponies. My pony mare is inspected with them and her coming foal will be registered with them. Since RPSI uses the same inspectors as they do in Germany, I would assume they inspect for the same criteria.
In New England, our USDF in-hand shows offer a Sport Pony In-hand class and a Sport Pony Under Saddle class. I think the SP U/S class is run like a materiale class and not like a regular dressage test. I will be showing my pony and her foal in the in-hand classes this summer, just like I show their bigger counterparts.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I’m trying to figure this out in terms of comparable registries and breeds in Germany and in the US, with ponies and with horses. Has Australia already invented the wheel so we don’t have to? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Australia definitely has the Riding Pony figured out 
Check out Del’s website, www.ozemail.com.au/~ascotstud/Index.html. The UK has both the British Riding Pony http://www.nationalponysociety.org.uk/standards/bsrp.htm and their new British Sports Pony Studbook, http://www.sportpony.org.uk, started within the past couple of years, by Celia Clarke (Warmblood Facts) and Sarah Stegal of Bernwode Stud, www.bernwodestud.com, among others.
Catch up time for me:
Heather, Benno’s Dream is a Weser-Em pony - he was born there. He is also an approved breeding stallion in the Weser-Ems Pferdestammbuch. I activated my membership in the organization but haven’t heard anything from them.
Ilona, I checked on the FEI Pony Tests in terms of going the performance route: Dressage is equivalent to a combination of Second and Third Level dressage - no changes, but pirouettes, etc. Showjumping is 4’3" heights and 4’7" spreads plus 5’3" triple bars in the qualifying rounds, up to 4’5" heights with the 5’3" triple bars in the finals. Eventing is the pony 2* test - 3 day format with roads and tracks. I couldn’t find the dressage test portion or the heights for cross-country, but cross-country is 3600 meters with a maximum 25 efforts and a speed of 450-500 m/m, and stadium is 10-12 obstacles up to 3’8" heights and 4’5" spreads. I think each of these pony tests is a lot to ask of a young pony, so again, I think the performance route is for the older, seasoned stallion.
Mary Lou - in Germany, the German Riding Pony mares are typically large pony size just as are the stallions, but a bit smaller, maybe 14H or 14.1H. Some of them are large, oversize, etc.
Lesley - A big congratulations on Forest Flame in Florida! What shows will he be attending and at what level? I know he will show the horses how it’s supposed to be done! Will he stop by a show or two in Georgia on the way back? And will you go to any of the Florida shows to watch him perform?
And Rooty - How exciting. Benno’s Hit is one of my Benno’s Dream’s first foal crop in Germany. He is super from the pictures and video I saw of him. I am a proud “grandmother”. Please send pictures when the foal is born. Benno’s Hit’s dam is a German Riding Pony I visited - very sweet and nice, a large pony, chestnut. She had 3 foals by Benno’s Dream, every one bought by Benno’s owner. It was a great match. I would suspect that given Benno’s Hit’s bloodlines, he will help from his side to keep your mare’s offspring small.
Hello,
I know past threads have addressed this, but as breeding season creeps closer (and my # of broodmares increases)…I wanted to see if there was any new information available.
Here are my questions.
German Riding Pony Stallions available.
I know of Makuba, the three boys of Nancy Ferebee’s (Ga), and the two at Highlife Farm (Fl). I also recall of hearing of one or two that are Welsh breeding but imported from Germany. Any new guys out there? I have heard rumors of one in Va and one in Tx?
Breeders who are breeding GRP. Who are you, what are your breeding goals, what registries are you using, how have you found the market?
Thanks in advance.
Heather
I think Sportpony’s description is helpful regarding the studbooks. I just wanted to add a little more information that could help. I looked up one of the recent pony stallion licensings in Westfalia. At it, there were 6 Welsh stallions presented (3 Welsh A and 3 Welsh B), 1 New Forest and 73 German Riding Ponies. Of those presented, 2 Welsh were approved - one of them was also approved into the German Riding Pony studbook. 14 of the German Riding Ponies were licensed. Of those 14, all but one had German Riding Pony sire and dam (that one had a dam who was sired by a thoroughbred approved in the GRP studbook).
I also looked at the top breeders by money winnings within the last couple of years. One is a very large producer who has Welsh Cob, Shetland and German Riding Pony stallions, mares, etc., but primarily German Riding Ponies. Another top breeder has 7 stallions, all of whom are German Riding Ponies out of GRP mares by GRP sires although one of his stallions has a thoroughbred up close in the pedigree and one has a foundation AngloArab (French thoroughbred). The third has all German Riding Ponies with all GRPs several generations back in the pedigree with no other “breed”. Behind them 4 generations are crosses of Welsh, British Riding Pony, Arabian.
I also looked up the pedigree on one of the older top breeding and performance GRP stallions, born in 1988 belonging to another breeder. His sire and dam were both German Riding Ponies, Sire has both sire and dam GRP, dam from unspecified sire and dam. Three generations back were 2 unspecified, one GRP, 2 British Riding Ponies, an Arabian and 2 Welsh.
In terms of Welsh bloodlines, as far as I see in many of the pedigrees, it would be Bwlch, Cusop, Coed Coch and Downland, all several generations back in the pedigrees of the more modern GRP. In addition to the Welsh, British Riding Ponies were very important, maybe more so than Welsh, especially 2 who are in many of the pedigrees (they have Welsh back in their pedigrees). Then the Anglo-Arabs, warmbloods, Arabians, thoroughbreds, etc. that were added to the mix. So the “cocktail” that Del talked about has been a complicated, probably trial and error recipe, and each breeder seems to have his own variations on the theme.
The goal is to produce an “endmass” pony, meaning 148cm, no more, no less. One breeder talks about the difference between the German Riding Pony and the smaller horses being that the ponies that go oversize are “much easier” than the horses. I find that most calls I get are from older/smaller women, occasionally from parents of a smaller competitive teenager. I saw there are 2 ponies competing at the Palm Beach Dressage Show this weekend, one a German Riding Pony with an adult rider competing Intermediare I and II and one a New Forest Pony with a teenager competing at Fourth Level. So - should the registries broaden their description of the rider? There are plenty of smaller women who want a nice, size-appropriate mount. Many of the women who get on my stallions have a couple of inches to spare before their heels go below the belly, and that’s in a dressage saddle.
The mare base is crucial to developing the characteristics wanted. The great majority of “successful” German Riding Pony broodmares I saw and researched in Germany were, shall we say, “substantial”, good bone, and absoultely wonderful disposition. I never saw one that I would call “refined”. I have tracked several that over and over produced outstanding offspring, some for 20 years. One was crossed with Black Boy many times, but she was 25 years old when I last knew of her. The next generations looked about the same, “substantial”. They are the mares that pass along genes for the impulsion, suspension, character/disposition, rideability, etc. and can use what the stallions bring to the equation without taking anything away.
If I hadn’t already bought a new mare last fall, I’d be plunking down my quarter for Jennifer and joining the ranks of sporthorse breeders right now. 
But, I need 6 mares like I need several holes in my head, so I’ll just enjoy watching her from afar.
Nancy - the ISR does have Performance standards for stallion approval on the ponies. It is NOT the same as for the horses. Just didn’t want anyone to get the impression the pony stallion only had the choice of the 30 day testing.
Tiki…your right mostly they do have a larger girth and can take up the leg of an adult rider fairly well. We have had many adult riders on our ponies and have fitted them well. It can also depend on where the rider has the height i.e in the leg or in the torso.
I’ll try and post a pic of one of our mares standing just under 14.2h with a rider who is leggy 5’8" tall.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by benno:
…One of my ponies was 4, just started, did walk, trot and canter and passed… <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I’m amazed at this…will have to check with the registry. I understood that the (ridden) requirement included a dressage test, at a specific level.
<span class=“ev_code_RED”>kick icon for Rainbow Farm</span>
Update that page, lady! We want to see more of those munchkins!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> is in danger to be shortchanged in dressage scores from L-level upwards as the common assumption is that a horse needs a certain frame to ‘fill out’ a dressage ring (as stupid as it may sound).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> posted Jan. 17, 2005 08:54 AM
Kareen, I’ve heard that the top German trainers say that a good horse is never a bad size. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
About 2 years ago I went to SC to watch Conrad Schumacher do a Young Rider clinic, and during the lecture he specifically said that if you want to be competitive on at the ‘rated’ shows you needed a horse no less than 16.2 (or there bouts) - he said that horses any smaller get lost at the other end of the arena.
And he is a YOUTH/JUNIOR rider trainer to boot.
And in the hunter realm there is that 14.2+ to 15.3 hand range that really, from the research I have done watching the classifieds on a local and national level, just doesn’t sell as fast and doesn’t sell for as much as a >14.2 or <15.3
I’ve got a recent interesting story too. A gal I know has a nice, cute blood bay with black points QH/apppendix ‘pony’ mare - about 6/7 years old from what I remember. Now she sticked this mare at just under 14.2 - priced at $5K. Had someone come out and look at her - and they sticked her, and apparently sticked her correctly at 14.3 and IMMEDIATELY lost interest. My friend was bummed that she’d have to lower the price for a hunter disciplined market (non QH breed shows).
I don’t know - I think that on the ‘local’ level adults riding an animal under 15.3 might get a good look, after all I’ve ridden some dressage tests on typical QH movers who actually scored mid 70% (which I can tell you is not an HONEST score but a generous score) — but I just WONDER on the RATED CIRCUIT how adults on sizes under 15.2 will get scored.
I’ve got a welsh question -
What happens to a purebred section B who goes over 14.2??? I have NEVER seen a welsh section B advertised that is over pony sized!!! Do people just not advertise it - or do they go into the ‘cob’ division???
Do A’s that go over size go into the B division???
ALSO - GENERAL PONY QUESTIONS
Who tends to buy the pony weanlings/yearlings (of either a hunter type of a sport pony type)? describe the typcial buyer for that age range. (I ask because I can’t imagine a ‘family’ buying a weaner/yearling as a prospect for their kid).
As far as riding age pony stock - do you have experience selling to either Pony Club families or 4H families (this would be a more hunter type pony here)???
My son is in Pony Club and I am sort of surprised at the pricing of animals that can do C and higher in their classified ads (from their journals). Many animals that go C+ level are in the $10K range (mind you pony club animals must be over 5 years of age - and yes there are many D level pony club mounts selling in the $2,500 - $5,000 price range).
I have also noticed that kids that go to the national levels in 4H ride some pretty expensive animals as well - true there are the western divisions/halter etc - but as far as HUNTER type ponies - any one sell to 4H’ers???
I have just noticed over the years in both 4H and Pony Club that the kids that go to ‘nationals’ tend to be pretty dedicated and have fairly nice horse flesh to ride.
Just curious!!! 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>German Riding Ponies are a breed at this point <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi benno; the only thing I would like to add on your point, coming as a long time breeder from a (general) Riding Pony perspective is this:
Because the Riding Pony is made up of a number of breeds it is in fact a “type” rather than a “breed” as such.
You do mention that in a pedigree a Welsh B as an example, will appear as such in a GRP pedigree. As does Arabian, British Riding Ponies as just a couple to mention etc also appear in GRP pedigrees
I guess, like us here in Australia you have a breed society, registry and stud book for the GRP.
But it is not classed as a breed as such due to the many “approved” different breeds that combine to make the “cocktail” of the “Riding Pony”
I agree there should be an American Riding Pony down the track.
I do not necessarily feel that it would be a Sport Pony as such.
I see the two as different.
We now have both a Sport Pony Registry (in it’s infancy) and a Riding Pony Stud Book (the word Australian at the front was dropped many years ago) due to the pony and it’s make-up being so universal. The majority of the blood here has UK origins.
Having said that, our RP stud book here is a good 25 years down the track and RP breeders are breeding some exceptional animals.
Interesting thought!
Del…your ponies are always stunning…so beautiful and always a pleasure to see.
Sorry…can’t help myself 
you asked for more pics. I have tons but won’t post them all but I do have to post this filly. She scored 8.7 for movement at her breed inspection with the ISR last year, 8.5 for conformation, her over all score was 8.6. The pics are not very clear but hopefully you can see how lovely she is.
She was named Forrest Nymph and is now owned by Lyn Simpson from Florida.
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