Is there a compelling reason to be fancier than some St Croix eventers all the way around? I like the breakover on those shoes…
[QUOTE=katarine;3955252]
Is there a compelling reason to be fancier than some St Croix eventers all the way around? I like the breakover on those shoes…[/QUOTE]That just depends.
Eventers are a good shoe but use of the horse and many other factors need to be taken into account. One downside of them that comes to mind is weight. Oftentimes a horse will need a lighter shoe than that. There are literally hundreds of shoes we have available as individual as the horses themselves. Sometimes custom making them by hand is necessary. One shoe will not fit all situations and circumstances.
George
[QUOTE=tpup;3953856]
Due to lameness issues, ring condition issues and thin soles (reacting positive to hoof testers), my vet practice (2 very good lameness vets) are recommending that I shoe my horse. He has been barefoot 1.5 yrs. Was shod when I got him but feet were in terrible condition. I asked about using boots for ring/trails (I have Easyboots), but vet really feels shoes will make him more comfortable all around and in his field too and help with his movement and other issues…he is also thinking ahead to hard, dry summers and was not high on boots because it’s not practical for me to turn him out in the easyboots. Vet feels all 4 shod will help him - that after being barefoot this long, his soles should be harder - he feels it’s just an anatomical thing with him - he is older, arthritic hocks and other issues I’ve posted about recently with videos.
Have to admit I have gone back and forth about this for a while. Our ring is rocky. Other ring is bluestone. He clearly veers to grass when he can (up driveway, on outer edges of rings - goes along fence when he can…)
Another option I have is to use Perfect Hoof Wear again - we did few cycles last year and he was very happy in them, but the tended to last only 3-4 weeks max. Best we got once was 5 weeks.
What do I need to know about adjustment period, soreness going barefoot to shod? Will he be sore?
And should I do just fronts to start, or all 4? When I got him he only had shoes in front…although has thin soles on all 4.
Would love thoughts and opinions - this isn’t a barefoot vs. shod debate - I really want to do what’s best for my horse and will shoe if it will help him.[/QUOTE]
do all four as horse wont be balanced properly
WOW! that sounds just like my horse’s story
Just wanted to suggest (as others have done) that you make sure that you have addressed any underlying issues such as diet, balance, length, etc. Also, I would make sure you have your vets and a skillful farrier work together as a team to develop a plan that works for your horse.
FWIW, I had my gelding go barefoot for roughly 2.5 years. He was able to “get by”, but deciding to put fronts only on him has turned out to be a very good decision. I really want his rides to be comfortable and enjoyable, because at age (almost)23, he has earned the right to step out with confidence.
Uhm, no it’s not at all. Now if you were to talk about humans going barefoot, which they have and can do, then we’re talking 
Humans evolved in Africa. They then migrated into colder climates and learned to adapt by wearing clothing. If they would not have I don’t think they would have made it. Humans around the equator still wear very little clothing, if any 
We’re talking covering up a pathology here, not adapting to the environment, unless you meant to say adapting to a pathology.
Kim wrote:
Thin soles also can come from chronic inflammation. When you people have lived with a horse like I have, or what Marta has or maybe what tpup is, then you can begin to have a intelligent conversation. Ute, you have absolutely no, none, zip nada, zilch TENURE in working on long term pathological hooves. Going and pulling a few shoes on horses with crap trims and crappy farrier work does not an expert make.
You can sure dish it out, but you cannot take it, can you? Shoes how secure you really are. Yes, and where does the chronic inflammation come from Kim? What are the underlying causes, because there must be one.
In addition you know nothing about my work, yet are quick to make assumptions over and over again. So far any pathological hoof I have touched has improved IF the owner was willing to make the necessary management changes. See the thread on goopy eyes if you are interested to read about 3 of those examples. That is if you are truly and objectively interested, or carry on with your childish little tirades that do not make you look very professional at all. As always, your choice.
Humans evolved in Africa.
I just have to say that again.
Human evolved in Africa.
I won’t EVEN ask.
i’d go with 4 shoes and pads.
if he has thin soles, he’s not going to be happy with just 2 shoes.
Thanks everyone - well appt. has been made for next week. Using good farrier who has alot of experience with arthritic horses. He is going to shoe all 4 with aluminum shoes and put thin coat of durasole (I think that’s what it’s called). Said I should see immediate difference.
[QUOTE=BornToRide;3956173]
Uhm, no it’s not at all. Now if you were to talk about humans going barefoot, which they have and can do, then we’re talking [/QUOTE] In the pic of you I see you wearing shoes. Nice to see:eek:
Humans evolved in Africa.
And you know this because? Plenty of folks say they didn’t evolve at all. Guess they haven’t gotten the news.
They then migrated into colder climates and learned to adapt by wearing clothing. If they would not have I don’t think they would have made it.
Ok
Humans around the equator still wear very little clothing, if any
But wait didn’t you just say… Oh never mind. We can also note that such people also have no railroads, industry, infrastucture, technology or anything else that goes with a civilized society.
Certainly not much if any horse shoeing goes on in such places. Would you opine that these 3rd world countries with widespread disease and famine (while rich in fertility and natural resources) are places that should be emulated?
Kim wrote:
You can sure dish it out, but you cannot take it, can you? Shoes how secure you really are. Yes, and where does the chronic inflammation come from Kim? What are the underlying causes, because there must be one.
You were told already what the animal’s issue was. Your obtuseness is noted.
In addition you know nothing about my work, yet are quick to make assumptions over and over again. So far any pathological hoof I have touched has improved IF the owner was willing to make the necessary management changes.
You’ll need some credentials, qualifications, experience, and accomplishments before you can get away with the self aggrandization. Some of us are less than impressed.
That is if you are truly and objectively interested, or carry on with your childish little tirades that do not make you look very professional at all. As always, your choice.
“childish little tirade”? And where might that be? I see Kimmy comporting herself quite well lately:winkgrin: Maybe you should come work with her sometime. If you’re not careful you might learn something.
George
The Emperor only seems buck nekkid! :lol:
ow if you were to talk about humans going barefoot, which they have and can do, then we’re talking
Fine, let’s use the “humans only wear shoes when they have to” analogy. I wear shoes when I have to. Most people I know do the same. Often, you can find me barefoot. When I have to do something that requires me to wear shoes to be comfortable, safe, and able to move freely, I put shoes on. I espouse the same philosophy when it comes to my horses.
Again, your point? Are you saying that shoes are something we use when we need to? Or that people shouldn’t wear shoes, either? 
If it is the former, then finally we agree on something, and the species doesn’t matter. 
If it is the latter, well, I’ll keep my shoes and my warm, safe, feet, thanks. You and anyone else who feels strongly about this can feel free to go barefoot whenever you like. Just make sure you avoid sugar and soy and you should be A-OK. 
Horse shoes and evolution
I’m like this with Chuck (picture my fingers crossed, and Chuck is Charles Darwin whose On the Origin of Species I know like the back of my hand).
So, one reason to shoe modern horses is because evolutionary change happens over geologic time. Their hooves have not had the opportunity to become specialized for work on the abrasive surfaces we like to use for our arenas. And since breeders-- the practitioners of artificial selection-- don’t systematically cull horses who can’t stay sound and barefoot in sand, we make take advantage of our adaptive ability to nail steel shoes onto horses conveniently thick hoof walls.
I don’t see the problem.
Have you never considered the abrasive surfaces Mustangs walk over every day for over 20 miles or so, while domestic horses are generally worked 1 hour a day tops and most not even every day??
And since breeders-- the practitioners of artificial selection-- don’t systematically cull horses who can’t stay sound and barefoot in sand, we make take advantage of our adaptive ability to nail steel shoes onto horses conveniently thick hoof walls
Nope sorry, it has been tried. Horses with supposedly genetically weak hooves were bred and produced off spring that had excellent hooves. However those colts were also
- never shod at the age of two, before hooves are fully mature
- allowed to exercise as much as possible to develop good, strong hooves until they were mature
- fed a species appropriate diet - high fiber and low NSCs
Most likely steel shoes evolved as weapons, as a horse with iron on the bottom of their hooves could do a lot more damage to an enemy when kicking out. At the same time horses were more stalled for convenience reasons and we all know how deplorable the hygiene was in the middle ages, plust they started feeding horses oats, again mostly probably for convenience reasons, since it was more difficult to store tons of hay in the tight spaces of midieval fortifications.
Fine, let’s use the “humans only wear shoes when they have to” analogy. I wear shoes when I have to. Most people I know do the same. Often, you can find me barefoot. When I have to do something that requires me to wear shoes to be comfortable, safe, and able to move freely, I put shoes on. I espouse the same philosophy when it comes to my horses.
Again, your point? Are you saying that shoes are something we use when we need to? Or that people shouldn’t wear shoes, either
Many humans in warmer climates still walk barefoot today. Perhaps we had more need for shoes in colder climates and that’s how they came about.
My point is that a horse’s hoof can definitely addapt to going bare, much more so than a human foot. We do it all the time and successfully so. Shoes can be an excellent tool for traction if necessary or extra protection on rocky ground, but should not be used to cover up hoof pathologies, because they will continue to fester and often do not heal and get worse because the root causes are never effectively addressed.
I’m sorry but this really bugs me and I can’t keep quiet any more. :lol: People use “iron” and “steel” interchangably when talking about horse shoes but they are not the same. Iron is a pure chemical element. Steel is an alloy, usually iron/carbon but ocassionally other elements are used in the alloy process.
Sidenote: to my knowlege, the only IRON shoes on the market today are Cytek. All others are some type of steel, aluminum or polymer.
Further - the discussion of bare footed humans is just silly. The human foot is nothing like the hoof of an equid at all. There are plenty of wild hooved animals (pigs, water buffalo, giraffes, zebra, etc.) that survive without hoof protection in their wild environment. The difference is that these animals have not been domesticated and turned into beasts of burden as the horse has. I agree that a healthy horse with healthy feet should not need horseshoes, and there is PLENTY we can do to develop healthy strong, bare feet. But the facts are, horses “have” been victim of many centuries of selective breeding and domestication, which certainly swings the pendelum to and fro. Also we typically want our domestic horses to live for 25 or 35 years, versus the typical 10 or 12 of the wild horse.
Even domestic production cattle are plagued with plenty of hoof disease - thrush, founder, white line disease and associated lameness - everything a horse is. They live in a wet environment, don’t get the proper exercise, and have been selected for milk and meat production above healthy hooves and resiliancy. Bovine trimmers are big business around here, we’re the Dairy State after all. A good bovine trimmer can craft and apply shoes to foundered cows, and keep them trimmed in a manner that’s conducive to good feet and soundness so the cows last years on the production line. A good producing dairy cow is worth as much as a fancy show horse, or more. I’ve seen heifers sell for $7,000 at auction. I worked at a dairy farm for 3 years and hoof care was crucial to the success of the operation. Water buffalo don’t need a trimmer every 4 months because their diet, environment and genetics are completely different. They don’t stand in concrete stalls and cow yards, and they don’t need nutrient packed feed conducive to milk production. You really can’t compare wild bovines to domestic, nor can you wild equines to domestic.
ANY time we domesticate an animal and house them in less than ideal conditions, we are bound to have trouble. There is plenty we can do to mitigate the damage, but at the end of the day, it is what it is and WE are the ones who created it.
Fine, if it makes you happy Yeah, that would have been too fancy of a material for shoes - that was needed for swords :lol:
[QUOTE=BornToRide;3956828]
Many humans in warmer climates still walk barefoot today. Perhaps we had more need for shoes in colder climates and that’s how they came about.[/QUOTE]
I can’t believe I am wading into this, I must need my head examined…
But temperature is not the ONLY reason most humans wear shoes in this era. the human foot is capable of building up a tough callous over time, but to do so requires ongoing exposure over time. Most humans have jobs and lives that require shoes/protection and don’t permit the laying down of layers of callous. The same is true for our horses. They are not wild mustangs and they don’t free range over tough surfaces 24/7. They are turned out in maintained pastures and they live in stalls. Some wear shoes because it’s an accomodation of the lifestyle in which we keep horses.
Look, no one is suggesting slapping a shoe on top of an unbalanced trim or gaping wound/abscess is a good idea. That’s a strawman. But it’s as equally ridiculous to insist that any horse who cannot go barefoot under typical stalling/riding circumstances has a clinical lameness.
Shoes were used as weapons.
SO we all came from Africa and shoes were used as weapons?
BTR is your elevator stuck somewhere between floors?
Seriously.
[QUOTE=vxf111;3956963]
I can’t believe I am wading into this, I must need my head examined…
But temperature is not the ONLY reason most humans wear shoes in this era. the human foot is capable of building up a tough callous over time, but to do so requires ongoing exposure over time. Most humans have jobs and lives that require shoes/protection and don’t permit the laying down of layers of callous. The same is true for our horses. They are not wild mustangs and they don’t free range over tough surfaces 24/7. They are turned out in maintained pastures and they live in stalls. Some wear shoes because it’s an accomodation of the lifestyle in which we keep horses.
Look, no one is suggesting slapping a shoe on top of an unbalanced trim or gaping wound/abscess is a good idea. That’s a strawman. But it’s as equally ridiculous to insist that any horse who cannot go barefoot under typical stalling/riding circumstances has a clinical lameness.[/QUOTE]
Add a second “Oh, God, why am I doing this” but in those barefoot cultures of humans we also see a much higher incidence of hookworm infections. Not fun.
In any case: human feet =!= hooves. The comparison is valid, however, in that different jobs, different terrain, different foot structures, etc. sometimes need different foot protection, whether or not the foot is homonid or equid.
You must be referring to your elevator - read again what I wrote : Horse shoes were most likely evolved to be used on HORSES for weapons, not on humans :lol::lol::lol::lol:
