Grooms?

[cdnmoon]

I too found the original post somewhat offensive.

I get the point of the post, but I think it needs to be pointed out that regardless of your groom’s nationality/ethnic background, they are “grooms” - they work their a**es off for you and the least you can do is show them the respect they deserve for putting up with all the crap (and trust me, I groomed for years, most grooms take a lot of crap!) and taking care of your horses. I’m sure you would be equally offended if they showed you disrespect by asking such questions as “How many stuck up rich b****es are you grooming for today?”

I believe the question should have been “How many GROOMS does your barn usually bring?”

[Bertie]

Hoping not to be politically incorrect but…If the Virginia Clique was to go, en masse, out onto the circuit as grooms, (or riders, or van drivers), would they be referred to as the “Virginians”? They would of course be easily identified, if only by their taste in fashion Would they take offense at this label? What about Moesha, who we think of as a Virginian, but is a self-proclaimed District of Columbian. Would he be offended?

WAY too much time on my hands this weekend!

[This message has been edited by Bertie (edited 10-15-2000).]

[BayHorse]

I prefer self-care and do everything myself, but if you asked my wife she would tell you that she looks after the horses and I just jockey.

I suppose that’s because the supply of Mexicans is non-existent in the UK and not so many Irish are getting over these days.

[Magnolia]

Anyplace-
It would be nice if all teenagers were aware of being PC all the time… but they aren’t. You don’t need to insult the poor girl, and if you look at another of her posts on another thread, this little “snot” volunteers and donates a substantial portion of her allowance to charity.
I think she got the idea of being more sensitive about her grooms, you didn’t need to insult her.

[ponymom138]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne FS:
[B] None, we bring two Jews and a Catholic. geez, Kelsy…

Thanks for a good tongue in cheek laugh.
People can be so thoughtless. I’ll never forget the first time my daughters old trainer said something to her about “get me a mexican” and here I thought she wanted a nice cold Corona with a lime slice!!I was actually shocked when I understood what she meant but kick myself to this day for not bringing it up to her.
While at dressage at Devon a few weekends ago we were getting a program and the little ladies selling them leaned over and whispered “watch out for the gypsies… your picnic basket is lovely and wont last long if you leave it” now I wasnt sure if she really meant there were gypsies at Devon or if the demonstration arab native costume class confused her.Of course she meant no harm and didnt realize her political incorrectness.Some ethnic stereotypes are just too ingrained and hard to get rid of. Our family will never take for granted the many lovely people helping in the horse world ( usually with a lot more manners than some of the so called “professionals”. Of course we clean stalls, and groom to be able to afford our barn and would never be able to take advantage of having it done for us, but the closeness as a family and bond with the horse and pony definately makes up for the work.

[This message has been edited by Anne FS (edited 10-12-2000).][/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[cdnmoon]

As offended as I was by the original post… (offended enough to stay away from here for a while actually) I was equally horrified to read one of Kelsy’s replies…

“And we often spend a few weeks a year in our family’s house in Cancun and I always see nice Mexicans there. I have nothing against them.”

Children are products of their parents… rich, snobby horseshow parents. grrrrrr… I must get off this board!!!

[Kelsy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by magnolia:
I live near a ton of Mexicans and they are the nicest people I’ve ever met. They set a fabulous example for how we should live. Those grooms you have now, in 20 years, their children will be horse owners.
I hope that everyone (no matter how you refer to them mexicans, grooms, hispanics whatever) appreciate what they do for you. It pisses me off when people write them off as being dumb. It happens all the time here. I see sales clerks treat them so rudely and accuse them of being dumb it makes me sick (all because during their 60 hours of work a week building your cheap house, they haven’t perfected their english.)
They are intelligent people with a lot of common sense and inherent good naturedness. I have a feeling they will comprise a large quantity of our leaders in the future.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

People seem to think that because I asked if they spoke English I said they were dumb. They’re not dumb and I know that. I was just wondering about the langauge because I don’t speak any Spanish so I can’t communicate well with mine.

And we often spend a few weeks a year in our family’s house in Cancun and I always see nice Mexicans there. I have nothing against them. They’re nice people and have never been anything but nice to me.

[Kelsy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heelsdown:
[B]Kelsy posted several things which revealed a frightening degree of elitism. Kelsy has been very fortunate in her birth, she obviously has not a worry in the world about having a roof over her head or food on the table. I suspect that Kelsy is usually surrounded by others like herself who speak as she does. Oblivious to the tone of classism, snobbishness, and racism she made clear on this board. Or perhaps those who would know enough to correct her might be intimidated by her family. Her family, well, maybe they are too busy. Whatever.

When you post to a BB your words are recorded, no one can wonder “did she really say that?”

But without meaning to Kelsy has done a very good thing. It’s made many people aware of the attitude that many of us have, without thinking about, not meaning to, towards those who work as grooms. They are people.

I hope that Kelsy and everyone who has read this thread thinks twice about categorizing people, and as difficult as it may be, try to imagine walking a mile or two in their shoes, before you get into that Beamer that you got on your 16th birthday.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seriously, Erin, could we delete the thread?

It sounds as if you are saying that my family is too busy for me. That is insulting. My parents are always there for me and they are wonderful people.

I don’t think I’m racist OR a snob and I hate the fact that I came across that way.

And, I am not even 16 yet so I don’t have a BMW.

[BayHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
[B]And, Si, the Irish economy being what it is these days, they are probably hiring you English to groom for them, right?

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not wrong, two grooms of my acquaintance (used to live with us) went to work in Irish Studs! But there is a BIG irish community in Manchester (where I live).

[cdnmoon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ErinB:
if you leave this board, try BigEQ, or perhaps you’d prefer Towerheads? That is definately THE place to go if you are offended by asking how many grooms one has.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erin - I would hardly be offended by someone asking how many GROOMS one has… the question was how many MEXICANS one has.

I was horrified when I first read the thread and should have just packed it in at that time instead of saying anything at all. I bothers me to no end to think that I chose to keep company with people who justify this thinking by sitting in their second homes in Mexico looking down on the locals thinking “gee, those Mexicans aren’t so bad”. I highly doubt the Mexicans are looking at them thinking the same thing. I realize that Kelsy is just 16 - that’s not the point. The point is that when Kelsy is 30, she will still be the same because her parents brought her up to be this way. Not the kind of folks I wish to associate with.

Obviously I’m out of my league on this board…I’d much rather be in a place where people are equal and treated as such regardless of race and social status.

SO LONG!

[Canter]

Ahhhh… so the reason would be because;

a) Most equine jobs at the grooming level are low paying.

b) There is a great reluctance on the part of people living in the US to work in perceived low paying industries.

c) Immigrants are willing to go for “entry level” ie. low paying jobs in an effort to establish themselves.

This is correct?

Thanks for all your info. Just wanted to know a few of the “why’s”

[Moesha]

Just an addition to my post in support of the need for grooms, I prefer to do my own “work” It is great to have your horse brought to you and sometimes I choose that but I always end up re-doing everything. I just can’t hop on without checking all the equipment! And knowing they were prepared properly, even though the grooms are experts at what they do. Now for some shows and if you are early in the order after the walk a groom becomes imperative to have it done right.

[ErinB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kelsy:
[B] Erin- I’m sorry I had no idea that I’d cause trouble. I thought I was starting conversation… SORRY

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, guys, I think Kelsy’s definately learned, soo… why don’t we give her a break now? There’s no point in harping on her anymore. Not that we shouldn’t continue the discussion (its been very informing for me), but I think Kelsy should be left out of it. She didn’t mean to offend anyone, right?

[sassyjumper]

I didn’t read the rest of the post (sorry). All the grooms at our barn are working students. All are females of different backgrounds (from high school to housewife) and are really well trained by the barn. Most of the grooms who come to shows don’t compete or if they do they show at the local level. I really like this arrangement, the students are there for the love of the horse and we all are close. I would (and have) trust anyone of them with the care of ANY of my horses.

Shelli

[mwalshe]

Flash, basically the $$ is why, most trainers in the states where prize money is hard to come by are barely scraping by themselves, esp in dress and eventing, and with land and feed so high these days. Personally I prefer to pay someone who also rides so that I can make it up to them with lessons/training, gear, free hauling to shows or something similar but it is not always possible to do so. In fact I currently work weekends at a barn (I’m a biologist but I clean stalls, feed work with babies etc. to reduce the cost of my horse habit and heck, I enjoy just being there) One of the barns I rode at for years (as a groom/working student) has everyone ride as well as some of their kids. They have people who can ride a 4th level test or jump a 3’6" course- but only in chaps b/c they don’t own tall boots, don’t show and basically have no interest in it- just like to groom and work with horses but the free training is included as part of their “benefits package” so they take advantage of it. What would be really great is if the “Pro Grooms Assoc” - I believe such an association either exists or is in the works- could provide cheaper group health care and poss a retirement package because this is so expensive for small business as to be impossible. I think track employees can get this but then again you probably need a green card which might put some people off. Anyway just a thought…

[Nylar]

Well, since my horse isn’t really ready yet for the big shows, I tend to go along as the groom for our pony whenever possible. It’s loads of fun, my trainer and I split the work up at the barn, and then I take care of last minute grooming and stuff ringside. After the showing is done for the day, the rider is expected to change out of her good clothes and pitch in too.
At the more local shows, everyone does their own work, although obviously more responsibility is going to fall on the older riders. My trainer does a LOT of the work herself though, right down to braiding for those of us who aren’t coordinated enough to handle it. I may be 19, but my hands just don’t work that way.
I too am interested in the definition of full-care vs. half-care. Those aren’t terms I’ve come across yet in my somewhat limited showing experience.

[moose]

“The rich are not like you or me, -yes, they have more money.”

I don’t know made the quote, if it was F.Scott Fitzgerald and it’s not meant as a dig, but thats the only difference I see here, more money versus less money. We all have the same emotions, problems with stereyotypes, bad days whether we are rich or poor, backyard, mexican etc. and I guess the most important word I can think of here is “respect”(I need to remember it to, since I also have a temper).

Imho, please don’t say things in a politically correct manner so that it sounds proper, unless you mean it.

The statements of "it isn’t a crime to be poor "& “it isn’t a crime to be rich” are true-in this country. Instead of just giving to charities, have a conversation with one of the “mexicans” at the barn. I’m just as guilty as anyone in having used that term however a conversation that I had w/ a worker at our barn slapped me in the face when I had earlier been whining about something mindless -he was here for six months and would return to mexico to his family for four-They were originally from S.A. in a country that was under dictatorship & much of his family had fled or been killed.

The next time you are having a bad day and don’t think any one understands you-think about what a really bad day would be like, such as doing a trade (that some people here don’t realize is a trade) in a foreign country, possibly as an illegal, not speaking the language, no pension package or insurance in this job, and probably in more sitations then not, no respect. The only draw is that in this country, along with the ability to vote, luck & hard work, your children or your children’s children may also have the chance to be the one driving the BMW’s.

And for what it matters, beyond all of the petty discusions we have on this board please remember to “vote”, since the reality of what can happen when it’s not allowed is probably grooming your horse as we speak.

Okay, off my soapbox and, no this was not a politically paid or sponsored post, lol.

[This message has been edited by Moose (edited 10-15-2000).]

[MBS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J. Turner:
[B]I know indigineous tribes don’t like being called “Native American” or “Indian” because they are neither Americans (except by force) or Indians. Ask an individual to what tribe he or she belongs – Cherokee, etc.

But what is wrong with Mexican? Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a nationality. How else would one distinguish between Panamanians, Dominicans, and Cubans – and Mexicans? Sports announcers certainly distinguish between Latinos of different national origin.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is true J Turner except that now there are many other Latino workers out there at the horse shows. I know that the Mexicans were the first group of Latinos that started working the horse shows but Now there are many people from other Central American countries and it is Insulting to them to be all lumped together as “The Mexicans”. I was recently offended when I was lessoning at a well known barn and heard one little girl say "I don’t know ask one of those Mexicans " I thought why didn’t she say “ask one of the guys or one of the grooms” she just made it sound so degrading. Maybe I am a little sensative since my husband is Mexican.

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trixie:

with MINE? uhhh, yours? do what?!
do you own these people? since when?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you are being over sensitive. I have been known to refer to both “my boss” and “my administrative assistant” (both of which I “share” with about 5 other people) as “mine” without any sense of “ownership”.

[Jo]

Slugger, thank you for your excellent post. You said the things I’ve been feebily attempting to say. It just amazes me that there are really people who refer to people as pieces of equipment out there… even if they are young… I was always taught to respect other people as human beings, no matter their status… This thread is just so disheartening to me.