Nope, sorry. No break given. Couldn’t the question simply have been, “How many grooms do you guys have?” The whole point here was the kid said ‘Mexicans’. In her mind, all grooms are simply ‘Mexicans’. She made a generalization. I have aboslutely no problem chewing a racist up and spitting them out at the earliest opportunity, regardless of their age. Comments like that deserve no slack whatsoever.
[This message has been edited by Anyplace Farm (edited 10-16-2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRG:
I myself would prefer “Groom” or “Hand”, rather than, the Canadian, Mexican, or any other slur that is less than curtious.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Being called a Canadian or a Mexican isn’t a slur!
But I know what you meant, JRG. It’s using the word ‘Mexican’ in place of the word ‘groom’ that is offensive. It’s narrow-minded. Maybe all of Kelsy’s grooms are Mexicans; but maybe they’re Mexicans and Dominicans and Texans and Costa Ricans and WASPS.
Kelsy, when you said, “how many Mexicans do you bring” it sounds like how many tack trunks do you bring. It sounded like they weren’t people to you. You identified a low-paying, under-appreciated job not by it’s name, but by the nationality of a people.
LOL! I noticed that statement too CdnMoon!
Where else would you expect to find Mexicans, if not in Cancun!?!? Last time I checked it was part of the Republic of Mexico! 
“How many Mexicans do you bring?” sounds the same as “How many saddle pads do you bring?”
I don’t care if you’re 16 or 60, or HOW you and your friends are accustomed to talking around the barn, you’d better stop it now unless you always intend to travel in elitist, racist circles throughout your life. But maybe someone who doesn’t tack up their own horse at a show WILL always travel in elitist, racist circles, so in that case, I guess it doesn’t matter if you treat some people like property.
Wait–isn’t the Civil War over?
Kelsy, you can delete the thread since you started it.
Go back to page one of the thread, click on the icon with the pencil and paper, then when the next page appears, click on the box where it says “delete”.
Presto. Gone. 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Palisades:
I just remembered another post I wanted to reply to. Someone asked…“why is it that horses always behave better for the Mexicans than anyone else?” The answer: because the “Mexicans” actually spend time with them! Go hug your horse.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don’t even go there…
You all are really disappointing me lately… apparently I’m overestimating your ability to have discussion without name-calling.
And for God’s sake, why can’t you people just DROP something once the point has been made??! Is it honestly necessary to bash home the same ideas over and over again? Get over yourselves.
Thread closed. I’m sick of this… time to bring in babysitters, I guess…
I think we should appreciate the fact that these people come here and work hard jobs and do them well. Frankly, if you come here, and support yourself you should be a citizen.
I think everyone agrees that they are good people on this post, but please give them the same respect you give others. There are many horrible people in this country who think they should be deported for wanting a better lives.
Go out and educate - if you hear a fool say “Kick 'em all out” tell them about the gentleman that cares for your horses. Take the time to TALK to them - learn a bit of spanish, teach a bit of english.
I don’t believe in this class system that America is becoming - YOU CAN LEARN FROM THOSE WHO ARE POOR. YOU CAN LEARN A LOT!! Treat them like your peers, not your servants. The friendliest, funniest person I work with is the JANITOR!! The “dumb jock” at the gym showed me how to do squats safely. The non-english speaking groom can make you a better horseperson - just give him a few minutes of your time.
Sorry to amble on, yet another issue that makes me mad.
In my experience, many Latino people who grew up in the more rural areas have extensive experience with animals. Most likely they prefer the outdoor work with horses to sweating over a fry cooker. The legality issue, and language difficulties, may contribute as well. There are so many jobs going begging that most people who have other options don’t wish to shovel manure for a living (I realise that not all grooms, of whatever heritage, do mucking as well).
Kelsy, I’m glad that you haven’t taken this discussion personally. That shows maturity, as does your apology. I think you defended yourself very well and wisely.
~ Spunky
I prefer Full-Care, I think that the mexicans can do an amazing job at getting horses extra clean. Has anyone else noticed how even the worst horses to bathe seem to stand stiller for the mexicans than anyone else? I still visit them and take them for walks and stuff though.
Do you really think any employer is going to tell their employees they CAN afford to pay them more? We just had half the employees at my company quit. All of a sudden, we remaining employees got raises, promotions, an increase in benefits, a trip to Mexico…
There is a saying, You have to spend money to make money. If the grooms were getting paid better, you would have more people WANTING to be grooms.
I am glad that several people noted that the people who care for our horses are employees, not “Mexicans”. Some are immigrants, some are working students, moms, etc. but all work hard and deserve complete respect from the their employers!! Yep, I have groomed (at home & at shows), my daughter grooms to pay for her showing and we always talk to the other grooms at the shows (even though my Spanish stinks). You can learn lots by taking two minutes to be polite - and believe me, your horse will get even better care
By the way, for us, full care is everything (total care, washing, tack up, clean tack) and half care is stall cleaning and feeding.
[This message has been edited by jch (edited 10-11-2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moose:
[B]“The rich are not like you or me, -yes, they have more money.”
I don’t know made the quote, if it was F.Scott Fitzgerald [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
IIRC, Fittzgerald said “The rich are not like you and me”, and Hemmingway replied “Yes, they have more money”.
In this case we are dealing with two different economic situations.
In Kelsy’s case (if I am interpreting correctly), her family has decided to spend some of their discretionary income on show horses. IIUC, they are not trying to run their horse activities as a profit making enterprise. The only economic constraint on how much they pay their grooms is (on one end) the prevailing wage for grooms, and (on the other end) how much they are willing to pay.
Similarly, if I hire a local teenager to muck stalls for me, I am constrained by “what teenagers are willing to work for” and “what it is worth to me.”
A barn manager or trainer is in a very different economic situation. If they pay their grooms more, they may have to raise the board they charge, which may make some of their boarders leave.
A family paying a groom only deals with economic elasticity (aka “supply and demand”) at one end. The barn manager has to deal with it at both ends.
Since this topic arose, one concern I have for Hispanic grooms is their vulnerability to an employers demands. Yes, on the whole, they’re a hard working group, but many lack a green card, that piece of paper allowing them to work legally, and dare I say it, safely, in the US. They don’t have the 40 hour work week, more like a 60+ hour week with little or no time off, and are being paid right around minimum wage. Quitting for a better opportunity isn’t an option. We need to be careful not to take advantage of them.
Another concern I have is our language difference. Please, if you have Spanish speaking grooms, buy a Spanish/English dictionary, or better yet a Spanish/English horseman’s dictionary. I found one on Amazon, unfortunately it’s out of print, but am sure such things exist at tack stores as I’ve seen a copy at the barn where I ride. Wouldn’t we all like to be able to ask questions or make comments like, “How’s my horse’s cough today?” or “Watch out! There’s a loose horse running for the road!”
And lastly, as the holidays near, don’t forget those tip envelopes. Feliz Navidad!
Use of language can be a scary thing. I worked on yachts for years and used to refer to the owner of the yacht I worked on as “my owner”. Many of my friends who still work in this end of the marine industry still say this and it makes me cringe.
Thanks, Slugger!
And, Si, the Irish economy being what it is these days, they are probably hiring you English to groom for them, right? 
Anyplace, comments like that have NO place on this board, especially directed towards a KID who’s already apologized for what she said.
She said something that was construed as offensive. She apologized.
Move on.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ErinB:
Well, maybe I’m missing something, but… why is it that the majority of the grooms are “Hispanic”? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am not trying to be condesending to any racial group, but how many “privledged” people do you find are willing to work 60+ hour work weeks for minimum wage where people treat you like absolute s***?
HOW MANY MORE TIMES CAN I APOLOGIZE PEOPLE? IM SORRY… GEEZ…This is so frustrating.
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