I agree with both of Palisades above posts.
Some of the posts here really shocked me.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jo:
Why not? Truth hurts? Think about it – if you’re taking “Mexicans” to do your dirty work, you’re only up top for about an hour… Who’s spending the other 23 hours with them? Who’s tacking up, grooming, mucking, feeding? I’m always appreciative of who brings me food and keeps my house clean (well, when I was younger… Now I do it…)… I bet the horses are too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is NOT true… All the horses and ponies I have had have always loved me… I spend so much time with my horses and ponies and it’s not like I have a groom for everything I do all the time. When I’m at home I’ll get them ready unless I need extra help (i.e. sometimes I get to the barn late because of school or I’m in a rush to get somewhere after the barn.). I have spoiled all my horses and ponies so bad it’s unreal.
I certainly never meant to insult Kelsy…my comments directed at her were more a comment on the state of the horse community today, and the mindset that many of the riders are coming from. I apologize if I offended you Kelsey, I didn’t mean to.
Jax, if you go back and re-read my post, you will notice that I DON’T say “everyone who has a groom doesn’t love their horse”. The point I was trying to get across is quite simple. If the groom is the one who handles your horse most of the time, then the groom is the one the horse will behave best for. If the groom is the only one who bathes a horse at shows, then he will be the one who teaches the horse how to act in the wash stalls…if the owner decides to bathe their horse one day, they may have some difficulty because the horse won’t recognize their commands as something normal. It’s as simple as that. My horse always behaves better when one of the barn’s employees does his stall, because he is used to them doing that. When I go in to do it one morning, he wants to talk to me, because that is what he expects me to do. I don’t think that my comment on this was any reason to be defensive.
As for the “go hug your horse” thing…well, I do see a lot of riders out there who really don’t seem to appreciate their horses or don’t want to spend time with them (and I am not pointing fingers at anyone in particular!). So when a bunch of people start commenting on how much better their horse behaves for a groom, my first reaction is “go and spend some more time with him, and when he’s more used to you, he will behave better”. I know that my horse and I are better in both our riding and our groundwork when I spend a little time with him, grooming, talking, whatever.
BTW, I’m leaving for the barn now to “go hug my horse”! I think everyone reading this should do the same, whether you have a groom or not!!! 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JumpMerit:
Has anyone else noticed how even the worst horses to bathe seem to stand stiller for the mexicans than anyone else? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My goodness yes JM! haha. I remember showing my jumper 2 years ago… and I was at this show and he would NOT get into the washrack for the life of him… this guy felt sorry for me after a while, came up (didnt speak a WORD of english) took the leadrope, patted Schmee on the head… and marched him right into the washrack without batting an eye. I was so mad! LOL. I dont understand what it is… but Rumour wont stand for me to do ANYTHING to him! LOL and he’s perfect for everyone else.
[This message has been edited by RumoursFollow (edited 10-11-2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kelsy:
so it wouldn’t really matter if people raised their pay because they would work anyways.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kelsy dear… I took up for you fairly strongly on another thread… but even I am reaching the end of my limit here.
Please, [I]PLEASE[/I] think through your posts!!! It would certainly matter to the grooms if the pay was raised!
Read your posts over thoroughly before making them… I know that you are young, but for heaven’s sake, try to think of how the other person (in this case, the grooms) might feel. It’s not that people have to pay them more money, it’s the fact of whether or not they should be paid more as a matter of fairness and decency.
I would work on thinking these things through more carefully if I were you.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rockstar:
a loss was that much more disapointing… there was no finger to blame! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
make that no finger to point! 
Actually, the I believe the quote begins, “The rich are different…” and expands from there.
It’s a marvelous and thought provoking quote, and is the preface for a story called The Rich Boy by Fitzgerald. I will see if I can find it in it’s entirety and put it up.
It is often misquoted, as is the one about “the love of money is the root of all evil”.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rockstar:
And about the whole “mexican” thing… I am a pretty politcally correct person and I would never use the word so causually outside the horse show world… but this IS the horse show world… and “mexican” is such an accepted way of referring to the hispanic immigrants that work for barns that I have no qualms using it).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just because it is accepted doesn’t mean it is right.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HSM:
I don’t Trixie was being too sensitive. Let’s see…post # 1: “What kind of groom do you have?” post#2 “What kind of golf cart/scooter do you have?”<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, post #2 was “Do you prefer a golf cart/scooter/dirtbike/etc”. Just an opinion poll, like favorite saddle, new shirt, et.al.
Give Kelsy a break, please . She’s apologized already!
My two daughters each show two horses and we do all the care. We keep the horses at our own barn and the trainer comes to our farm or we may go to his for lessons. At home we have grooms who feed and do the stalls but all other care is done by the girls.
I have a fulltime job as the Accounting Manager for a large insurance firm and I could afford full care at the shows but I look forward to the weekends when I can just cruise along and take care of the horses and the girls are learning to be responsible for thier own horses. If our trainer has a large number of horses going I will even take care of a few others. I consider it my “therapy” after crunching numbers all week! It also makes all those hours waiting around go much faster!
Well go away then, if you are so exercised. Who died and made you queen of all things tasteful, correct and PC?
You’ve made your point and Erin has responded. Start your own BB or whatever.
JRG, I felt the same way! ‘Do your Mexicans speak English?’ Good lord! 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kelsy:
HOW MANY MORE TIMES CAN I APOLOGIZE PEOPLE? IM SORRY… GEEZ…This is so frustrating.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kelsy . . . .You need not apologize anymore for the people who haven’t understood the apology never will. I hope that you will continue to post here as everyone’s opinion and knowledge is important. I think that you have learned your lesson about how to phrase things and that is the most important thing.
I personally invite you to help me with the Peeps Defense Fund . . . 
The whole “Mexican groom” thing is especially pervasive here in Calif. As an example, my family has a small ranch (farm?), and we literally have our horses, yes, in the backyard… but they’re fancy horses, and it’s a NICE backyard… with an arena, lights and jumps (am I okay now?). Plus, my mom and I do all the work: mucking, feeding, etc. Keeps us both young and fit! This year we had to have some warranty work done on the barn. And the company rep, this big guy, comes out to inspect the damage. He goes into the damaged stall with my mom and me, and agrees to fix the problem, but then kicks away some of the bedding and says, “You have to make sure the damp shavings are kept away from the metal frame. Tell your Mexicans to do a better job.” My mom and I just stared at each other, not knowing what to say. When the guy left I told my mom, “Okay, you can be Maria and I’ll be Juanita.” Kind of funny, but sort of sad, too. Grooming and mucking are not glamorous jobs, but it’s the way I was brought up: when I was a kid, my first instructor MADE us do all of our own work to be better horsemen/women. Furthermore, at least around my neck of the woods, immigrants from Mexico (legal and otherwise) are often taken advantage of at some --not all, don’t flame me-- of the show barns because they’re willing to do work that some folks feel is beneath them.
I just have to post…Some of you may remember that I asked about demographics among the dressage community and someone cut and pasted it here. It created a bit of a stir and I had to come by and explain myself. Since that day, I’ve visited here on occasion and have found myself to be fascinated by the incredible flaunting of wealth by some on this board. I’ve come to the conclusion that some dressage riders are intellectual snobs whereas some hunter riders are snobs of a different sort.
I don’t believe we should blame Kelsey or Sandstone or any other child that has been raised in the lap of luxury for her faux pas. These kids will never know life as a working class citizen. I would, however, love to have their parents, particularly their mothers, read this entire thread, among others. I would hope that Kelsey and Sandstone’s parents would realize that their kids are lacking experiences in life that could make them more caring and sympathetic people. It’s doubtful that children like Kelsey will ever experience what the rest of us call life. They certainly will never rub elbows with middle class America in an intimate fashion. They will never know what it’s like to pay the bills and realize there’s just enough left over for groceries and the farrier bill.
Being raised outside of mainstream America, meaning middle-class America, children of the very wealthy may never learn to respect those with less. Those people who are so unfortunate as to be of the middle- or working-class will never be seen by the very rich as their equals.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne FS:
[B] ErinB, may I respectfully and gently attempt to explain what you are missing?
[This message has been edited by Anne FS (edited 10-13-2000).][/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Anne would it have been any better if ErinB had asked,
“Why is it in the United States that so many Hispanic people have chosen to enter the equine industry in the past ten years?”
Perhaps that’s what she was asking?
And if so, wouldn’t this be a legitmate question?
Not being confrontational. Just asking. Genuinely curious.
I just wanted to speak to the logistics of the change-over in nationalities of grooms today. As someone mentioned earlier, at one point, they were nearly all African-American. During my tenure on the east coast, there were very few A-A grooms left at the shows, and 99% of the grooms were white, mostly female but with a healthy dose of male. At this point in time, a well-known trainer departed CA and moved east to work for/with George Morris. Along with her came the first Hispanic grooms (to move east and stay)who worked for Hunterdon. This soon became an onslaught, due to their willingness to work for low wages ( I didn’t think they could get any lower than mine)! Here in rural VA, 10 years ago you would NEVER see someone of Hispanic descent; now they are about the only help that you will see in fruit orchards, tobacco fields, etc., where once these positions were held by African-Americans. Just an interesting trend to me.
kels~ it’s liz! roanly boy is doin’ so good even though he broke kate’s arm last week lol. anyways about the grooms. we usually bring a few mexicans with us (not to be racist; but all of our grooms happen to be mexican so its a valid thing to say). our mexicans are really good with the ponies.
kels, i have some great pictures of the ponies from middleburg, so i’ll send them to you. and i’ll call you at home or your cell and try me on the cell tonight. i’ll talk to you soon
~liz
I think Moesha made a very good point about the need for grooms in certain show situations. Although I certainly have the ability to tack up my horse at a show, things run much smoother when someone is there worrying about making the horse look his best, while I worry about my appearance. And for the jumper classes, usually the grooms are getting my horse ready while we walk the course (or even holding the horse at the gate while we walk) so that I can get on immediately after walking. I am so anal about being on time that I know the grooms can do a much better job of getting my horse looking it’s best for the show ring, and I don’t get stressed about not being ready fast enough. Moesha also mentioned about riders getting in the groom’s way, and I have found that to be true. Unless they have to get too many horses ready at once, it is obvious that they would rather prepare the horse without me getting in the way trying to “help”.
The other issue is the cleaning of the stall and feeding. I am not always in the position of being able to hang out at the show from dawn to dusk, and thus feed my horse and clean his stall, making groom care a necessity - we don’t have the option of half care. But when I’m at show all day, I help out however I can…usually helping to feed supplements in the evening, helping out at the arena, whatever.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that I actually WAS a groom for almost 4 years while I was going to college. I groomed for my trainer once or twice a week (didn’t groom for customers at shows or anything though) and boy was that tough work. I have great respect for those who do it full time as a career. However, I feel fortunate in that I was able to have that experience…it really taught me how to handle a variety of horses and their personalities. I got so much education beyond what I would have learned just dealing with my own horse.
I don’t use grooms. My family, friends, trainer, and I do the work. And I don’t feel that that makes me any better than any of you, that is just the way you do it. But…in my opinion, you may want to consider how you ask the question. From what I have gathered, most people on this board are not heavy “A” circut riders like on Towerheads. A question like “do your Mexicans speak english?” can be seen as very derogitory. I don’t want to make anyone mad, but think about that. You may be apprecative of being able to afford grooms, but remember, they are people too…
