GSP with osteosarcoma--update 8/27. He's gone :(

[SquishTheBunny]

Holistic treatments can be wonderful - vincristine, the most common chemotherapy agent used in humans and pets was a holistic treatment in a different form.

We saw a 2 year old Golden Retriever yesterday for a CT scan. Has osteosarcoma on a rib. He is fed raw food since the owners acquired him as a puppy. He is going to be put to sleep next week because the osteosarcoma has grown so large its invading his lunges and pressing on his heart (and has mets). The timeframe from the time it was first noticed to the CT revealing the mets was 2 weeks. Very sad.

Apparently with talking with the oncologist, osteosarcomas in older dogs is usually very slow growing. She has seen so many older dogs (10+) that can go without treatment and do just fine for years. Its in the younger dogs that its extremely fast growing and usually also involves soft tissues.

Fish - is your dog older? If so, this may (in a strange way) be a added bonus for him!!! She has known several older dogs where the osteosarcomas have outlived them!!

[fish]

Yes-- my dog is 12. Nice to think that could be helpful. too!

On the other hand, I have no question that the changes made in response to his diagnosis have had beneficial effects-- most notably on the pain front. When first diagnosed, he seemed to be declining fast: tumor was growing rapidly, and the affected leg was so painful that he had to be put under general anesthesia to cut one of his nails. After a month of dietary changes, Artemisinin, homeopathy, energy work… the tumor is (knock on wood) quiet, leg is cool, AND I can cut his nails as usual.

Lord knows, individuals are just that, making it difficult to extrapolate from one to another. Meantime, much of my experience in treating both animals and humans suggests limitations in the usual approach to testing treatments: i.e., isolating the treatment being tested by “controlling” other variables. Research in nutrition, for example, clearly indicates that balancing numerous variables, as opposed to having more or less of one or another, is crucial to maintaining health; and then nutrition needs to be balanced with exercise; healthy sleep patterns are important to both… Hence, the use of raw (or any other kind of) diet cannot be regarded as a reliable indicator of the effectiveness of “holistic” vs. conventional approaches to cancer (or other) treatment. As I’ve been saying, I’m throwing a huge kitchen sink at my dog, which makes it hard (to the point of impossible) to know what, precisely, is making the difference/s keeping the cancer at bay. I have no question, however, that something-- or some combination/s of things-- are doing a pretty good job-- without my having to subject my dog to major surgery + rehab. The experience does make me wonder why alternatives to amputation are not mentioned from the beginning-- i.e., that I had to reject that outright before the alternative treatments were even mentioned.

[SquishTheBunny]

Most vets are recommending what is “tried and true” based on quality studies. Clients would get upset if they “recommended” a treatment with little documented clinical results if it didnt work. Saying that, I (and most of the vets,primarily internists) are all for holistic treatments. Where the issue lies,is when people try holistic, it doesnt work, then want to “cure” with chemo. We have had this happen so much and have to explain to many people that its now too late for chemo.

I think most vets are not taught “alternative” treatments in vet school. Its still a bit of a grey area. There are excellent alternative vets, but there are also horrible ones. Research, and the ability to say “hey, what do we have to loose - lets give it a try” is the key.

Back in the day, joint remedies like glucosamine (devils claw) etc were considered alternative, its now used in every day maintenance for humans and pets. Milk thistle is also natural and holistic and is helping so many with liver diseases. My old horse thrived on accupuncture.

Sometimes its not eastern vs western medicine, its the combo or the personal choice for the specific situation.

Im so happy your dog is doing well. Jingles for many more months. And PS - we are currently monitoring a dog de bordeaux for osteosarcoma. They opted not to amputate (not a candidate, she has hip dyaplasia) and they did 3 rounds of radiation. She is now on year 3 met free. osteosarc is still there but has stopped growing. She is 13 I believe. She also gets weekly accpuncture and rekei. She has a lumpy leg, but has never taken a lame step! Client swears the accupuncture and Rekei is the key, and I cant diagree with her, the dog looks great. She feeds the dog some form of dry food, but Im not sure what brand (looks like the Orijen 6 fish)

[fish]

3 years! That’s great. There really is no telling.

I’m glad that in both human and veterinary medicine, there seem to be more and more practitioners and hospitals taking more holistic/integrative approaches.

[fish]

He’s gone

The vet came out yesterday morning and put him to sleep in the bed we shared for 11 years. I’m a total basket case, but am glad I did not amputate, as he was using/insistently weight-bearing on the tumerous leg to the very end. As the tumor grew, stretched, inflamed, and eventually split the skin, he became increasingly reluctant to go out and follow me around the farm, but once he decided to get up and go, he marched on that leg like a soldier. I (and my doggy-chiropractor) am glad I did not take that leg from him and subject him to the dual traumas of surgery and having to find a new balance on three legs.

I can understand and sympathize with those who choose amputation, especially with younger dogs, but there is no way I will buy into the “tripod” propaganda that says dogs are “3 legged with a spare.”

I miss my dog beyond imagining (except for the millions I know have experienced the same kind of loss). I’m such a basket case right now that I hardly know why I’m posting except to say that if anyone else faces losing their pet to osteosarcoma, I’ll be glad to share my experience and offer support for their choices.

I knew I loved my dog, but not until today did I realize how completely my life was tied to his. I cannot move without reflexively expecting my dog to move with me. After all, that’s what he did 24/7 for 11 years.

[clint]

Oh fish, I’m so very sorry. I have tears reading your post. Know that I cried the same tears when we lost our beloved lab, Sophie, to osteosarcoma three years ago. God speed.

[maunder]

There is a lovely blog called Rompin’ and Rollin’ in the Rockies (http://romp-roll-rockies.blogspot.com/)

This lady lost her dog to cancer and her blog shows her journey from the beginning.

I’m so sorry you lost your friend.

[Burbank]

fish, I’m sorry but you did the best you can for him and he knows it
sometimes love hurts, but it is so worth it

[Laurierace]

I am sure it feels like it was way too short but you did a great job keeping him going as long as you did. It sounds like you were each lucky to have the other. Godspeed.

[Houndhill]

I am so very sorry! You have my deepest sympathy, having lost more than one hound to this awful disease, I know what a hard thing it is.

Rest assured you made the right decision for your sweet guy! Amputation is so not for every dog. To the “tripod” comment (hadn’t heard that one, but couldn’t disagree more), I have said that most wolfhounds need at LEAST four legs! I am sure you made every decision with his welfare at the forefront, including having the vet come out for the last gift you could give him, and wasn’t that a blessing?

You are in my thoughts. Thank you for sharing some of your journey with us here. I hope you realize so many know what you are going through, and understand your pain. Know how much you miss your big sweet guy.

[MelantheLLC]

He’s waiting for you. I have some there. Most of us do. He knows you did your best for him, always did and always will.

[Emryss]

I am sorry. It never gets easier.

[Zu_Zu]

((HUGS)) ~ tears and thoughts and prayers for you ~ After ```

Thoughts and prayers and ((hugs)) and tears for you during this impossible time

RIP ~ Handsome Boy ~ knowing you will always be loved and remembered ~

After ~ the gifts he gave you ~ the memories and images will become locked in your heart forever ~

Be kind to yourself ~ one hour at a time becomes one day at a time and

after a whole lot of time those memories and images will ensure that you heal ~

those special * gifts your heart dog left behind ~

again I am so sorry :sadsmile:

[SquishTheBunny]

Im so sorry Sounds like he really did have a quality few months with you though, you did good for him

[crosscreeksh]

Oh I am so very sorry to see this announcement!! You both fought the good fight and at least you had some quality time together. I think the bond that forms between “nurse” and “patient” makes the parting/loss much more difficult…it did for me and Ambush. You try so hard to save them and feel a personal failure along with the loss. Hope you can take comfort in your memories of your friend. Hugs and love. Jackie

[Claddagh]

I’m so sorry for your loss. Osteosarcoma is a horribly relentless disease. We lost a beloved Golden Retriever to it despite aggressive treatment.

Your wonderful friend will be with you always, in your heart, until he greets you one day at the Rainbow Bridge.

Take care. Gradually your memories will bring more smiles than tears.

[fish]

Thanks, everyone. I know so many of us have been through it, yet still feel so alone when it happens.

Yesterday one of my friends (and his favorite dog sitter/buddy) came over and we spent hours crying, and pouring over pictures of our beautiful boy. What struck me was how much he aged, and how awful the cancer grew within six months. It was horrible to watch it happen to him, but did make me feel I did not put him to rest a day too soon.

It’s hard to pick up my life again. Since his diagnosis, he was the absolute center of it. It’s now habit that almost anytime I move, I think of Yancey, his schedule, whether he’ll get too excited when I open a door and hurt his leg jumping off the bed instead of using the ramp… Even though he’s gone, I’m still automatically trying to protect him from that awful disease.

I think maybe I need to start going to the gym to work it off or something.

[crosscreeksh]

Trust me…it takes a long time for the “scheduled treatment” memories to fade. I used to repeatedly check my watch to see if it was time to feed/medicate/treat Ambush. For weeks I’d wake up at night and hear him snoring next to my bed. DH and I still, call our new Boxer, “Ambush”. The “acute” pain fades, but mine still lingers when I see his favorite toy or a picture of him. I does get better, but slowly. Just hang in there.

[Houndhill]

I just read this wonderful article by Dr. Patricia McConnell on “Love, Grief and Putting Dogs Down” that nailed it for me. Applies to horses, and any death as well:

https://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/love-guilt-putting-dogs-down

Perhaps it may be helpful to Fish and/or others.

[fish]

Thanks for the article. I hope others read it, too.

I think where I feel guilt, though, is not so much from wondering if I could have prevented his illness, or done more to try to save him, as from feelings that I “sent him away” when he wanted so much for me to stay with him all the time, especially the last few days. As the article suggests, I think it is highly likely that such feelings do come from finding it so hard to accept that there are so many horrible things over which we really have no control.

Today a GSP breeder called to tell me about her litter of puppies. I’m glad I wasn’t in the house to answer the phone. How do you tell an excited “mom” that you’re just too devastated to talk at all right now, especially about GSP’s, without crying? I know many people do try to find a new dog ASAP to try to fill the emptiness left by the old-- I’ve even done it myself-- but this time it doesn’t feel right. I feel I lost my heart with this dog and need to find it before I can be fair to another.