As my mother would say, consider the source and ignore it.
I think that “H/J vs Dressage” is a bad title for this thread. Admit it, classically correct dressage will always be a better option than even correct jumping, but when I say that I mean SOLELY jumping. And by “classically correct,” I mean dressage that IMPROVES horse and rider and is not based on shaping the horse’s head and neck with side reins, draw reins, or even just the reins in the rider’s hands. But there is no reason why one should not jump at all – some horses enjoy it as a nice change of pace from dressage.
What Velvet meant was H/J RIDERS versus dressage riders. I, too, have found that all the H/J riders I have met are friendlier than the dressage riders. But it is interesting to note that all the dressage riders most people meet are those who are hung up on head sets and all that absurdity they call dressage. It seems that the classically correct riders can be very nice people, except when you’re defying the laws of classical dressage. But you will notice that what they say is so full of passion for the horse – this noble creature who so willingly gives his all for us – that it can bring tears to your eyes, and it is an ignorant person who cannot come to agree with them. If I were to have an online mentor, it would be either Galopp or Horseperson from the Ultimate Dressage Bulletin Board. Why? Simply go onto that board and search for all messages by them. You will quickly see why. I salute to them!
Checkers324
Ride the wind, and be at one with your horse!
Do I smell a possibility of Velvet converting to a hunter rider 
I think it’s difficult to create, sustain, and enjoy camraderie when one competes in a subjective sport.
When one is judged, often unfairly BTW, it’s easy to feel powerless and thus compensate for these feelings by assuming an arrogant stance - by hoarding what they believe to be their ‘trade secrets’, by, similarly, unfairly judging others, to snipe, to criticize, to lay claim to a false sense of superiority.
Well, that did bring to memory the self-limiting thing that used to help me when I evented…it’s called “fear.” I remember eventually reaching a point in eventing where I was afraid of the height of a fence and the big drop on the other side, but my horse wasn’t. He knew he could do it, but I didn’t think that I could do it. It really does help you set your goals.
And, yes, the problem in dressage is that everyone thinks it looks easy. It’s supposed to when you do it well! Aye, there’s the rub, and there is the problem with students as well. Just because they have a horse that can do it, doesn’t mean that THEY can get the horse to do it. Nor does it mean that their horse can do it perfectly for them the first time if they are both just learning it. It’s so hard sometimes because one minute you praise them (not all students, just the ones going around looking at themselves through rose colored glasses) so they have some confidence, and the next minute they become know-it-alls and think they have it down pat.
Dressage is a sport of perfectionism and the ultimate in frustration. Maybe that’s also the problem. They probably just get bored and think their instructor is holding them back when they have an ego to feed. My problem always was/is that I’m a perfectionist and never thought it was quite good enough (i.e., not perfect–even though that really is not a realistic goal) and my coaches had to kick me in the butt sometimes to get me to move along and stop obsessing. 
(These are my favorite types of students now.)
I’m an upper level rider and think that it’s just fine to have this discussion. I asked if it really is different, from their perspective, or if the H/Js are the same and I was just missing it.
As for the person out there who is driving everyone crazy lately, that’s not the only reason I was out here. I won’t hide from one person, I just was getting tired of all the opinions being the only correct one. Gets tiresome that we can never seem to agree. And yes, using a broad brush is not fair, but it is also much more of a H/J thing, I think. It would be much more of a dressage rider thing to be a Georges Seurat and attack each issue as a tiny dot–eventually we might reach the sub atomic level and then we’d all be too bored to go on reading the replies. (BTW, this is also a bit of an issue. I love details in dressage, but not ever single answer needs a mile long reply–especially when more questions should be asked to get the big picture.)
Okay, so I’m a traitor. I tell you, after spending a huge amount of time and energy in the world of horses, dressage people are the nastiest. I’ve been involved with (or board at barns that have) barrel racing, western pleasure, saddlebreds, arabians, eventers, hunter/jumpers and race horses and I’ve never walked out with as much cutlery in my back as I have at a dressage barn. Something about the sport breeds contempt (in the United States) for some reason and it’s really rather sad. I mean, I’ve worked many other jobs and it’s so funny that everyone in my office seems to think the politics and back stabbing are bad when they are childs play compared to most of the dressage barns I’ve been at.
JMHO I still love dressage and the horses, and some of the people, but the boarding situation and the attempts at sharing just seem to have a pretty high rate of failure. I’m sure the H/Js see some of this, too, but I just don’t seem to see it as much. Maybe it’s the level of emotional attachment that I have…
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Tally Ho everyone<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I am an “upper-level” rider, competing in dressage, and I gotta admit, I also find most dressage boards stuffy, pontificating, lecturing and, for the most part, filled with a great deal of inaccurate information.
I think many “dressage” riders are stuffy, snooty and insufferable. Not all, but many.
At our barn, “DQs” are not allowed, and we all have fun. Of course, many of us used to event or ride jumpers, and we still have jumping days.
(Sorry, Worthy, you would be allowed, because you aren’t really a “DQ” - no matter how much you pretend!)
Mostly I think some dressage folk are nasty and unpleasant because they feel inadequate, but maybe we won’t go there today!
T&M
Be my guest! And I do feel the chain noseband would be a waste.
I went out to the “booger” board and looked, but I guess none of them really read my posts and saw that I know what I am and have been and admitted to it, so what was the point in acting as if I didn’t? Color me a DQ, I’ve already admitted to it. But the point of this string was to find out what H/J riders thought was the difference in attitudes I have noticed over the years. (And, BTW, the most humorous thing would be if I actually already know some of those people on the board and maybe even taught a few of them and they enjoyed it. )
Now, as for this discussion, I still see a difference in the two worlds for style and attitude. As I said earlier, the H/J world seems to have its own quirks, but I would say the percentages split more in favor of just riding better and not getting on your soap box as we dressage riders do.
There does that help? Or will that make more people on the booger board angry because I lumped them in with me? Hmmm…critical, self examination is sometimes a difficult thing…
ROTFLOL
But you missed the point. I AM a dressage rider and I was asking for H/J opinions on why the attitude is so bad (on the bboard specifically). Why can’t we talk about it? I’m from the other side and wanted a different perspective. Did you even bother to read the entire string???
Jumpers are incredibly difficult. Dressage at the FEI levels is incredibly difficult. The stuff at the bottom and in between is also difficult to be mastered. It’s the attitudes that are at issue here.
BTW, I like the stamp for the breeches.
Maybe all Dressage Queens can give their horses names like “Dressage Serf” or “Dressage Slave” so we know right away that they are DQs.
It wasn’t bad, it was just another reply. Thought she might want to go out and say something more…maybe play nice with her, or whatever. sigh I wasn’t implying anything “between the lines” on my last post.
First, I will readily admit to being one of “those” lower level, middle-aged dressage riders who at least dreams some day of riding Grand Prix. And I hope it’s in this lifetime and not the next.
I board at an h/j barn because it is close to home and trailer to my dressage trainer. I do jump occasionally and like fox hunting, but dressage is my passion and my love. But the jumping makes the horse more forward and improves the dressage.
Now the major difference I have noticed–and this only applies to barns I’ve been in and boards I frequent, because I couldn’t for the moment generalize my observations to a whole discipline–is that hunter/jumper riders blame the horse when something isn’t right and dressage riders blame the rider. In dressage the assumption is that the horse is willing to do what you ask if you can only figure out how to ask correctly. In h/j people seem to think the horse is “lazy” or “evading”, and thus we see metal poles impaling the horse it was supposed to hurt just a little so the animal wouldn’t drag its feet. (Remember that from last year?).
IMHO this makes dressage riders horsemen and horsewomen, because the horse paramount.
I am sure there are h/j riders who are real horsepeople but I think the emphasis is different.
Boogey on dudes
No you are not blind! this group is more fun. Same with the eventers.Stay here, you will be well entertained and you will get some good advice. Oi, just read what I wrote and i need to go back to english lessons.
But H/J is subjective as wel…
Just returned from having my first look at the Dressage Forum. Velvet, while I did see the “offending” meow posting - I did notice that for the most part, the dressage board didn’t seem all that different from this one. And suprisingly, I saw many of my BB friends posting over there. Are they really that different?? 
All I have to say, Worthy, is that I’ve been sucked into the black hole of gossip, etc., that is part of the DQ world. I know you don’t have a problem where you live, but in all of my different horse training I’ve done around the U.S (including some of those nice little USDF programs for instructors) all I have to say is that the majority of participants are petty. Not all. There are some very nice people, they’re just more difficult to find. Pretty much a 70/30 split where 70 is the DQs.
I’ve seen hundreds (at least) of people who have money, buy a nice FEI horse and think they can go out and win on it in a week. Then they win a few classes on the horse because he is wonderful and think they can make the team. PLEASE! After a few months the horse gets worse and worse and the awful mistakes they made at the lower levels on the horse become more glaring, and yet they still think they can move up because they can do some odd version of the movement that the horse offers as a plea to the rider to leave them alone. Its just sad.
Then there are the lower level riders I described who go around thinking they have a GP horse and they force it into a parody of the appropriate movements for a 2nd or 3rd Level test to prove they are justified in believing in their horse. Well, some people just need a reality check.
These are the people I was discussing out here. Don’t take it personally. Just because I feel I deserve some of the paint on me for past behaviors doesn’t mean everyone else does, then again, I’m not going to disseminate. I’m just going to paint away because 70% of the time, I’ll be right. 
Velvet is now retracting her claws and licking her feet clean. (See, the paint did splatter on the right person. Guess I need to hang out here a bit longer…or maybe on the Eventer board??? )
This string was not started because of one person or incident, it was from experiences on many different dressage boards and the new one I’ve been having on this board.
True, we do more training discussions on the dressage boards, but we also tend to have more people out there who have a singular opinion and when it comes down to replying, they won’t even acknowledge the fact that they could (horrors) actually agree with someone for a brief period of time if they’ve historically disagreed with that persons training methods. What’s wrong with agreeing sometimes? Or hearing someone say the right thing and acknowledging it? Does that make us any less than we are?
Out on the H/J and event boards I tend to see (yes, I’m generalizing again) more people state that they agree and form a consensus that helps the person posting the training question. Isn’t that better than reiterating something that was posted–just to suit yourself, or not posting a reply because you didn’t get the chance to speak up first and impress the others with your skills and knowledge?
Okay, I think I’m ready for my coffee now…
Does anyone truly believe that any one discipline has a monopoly on arrogant cranks and arseholes?
The problem with the poster in question is that she has such a history of negative, highly opinionated posts that it is hard to take anything she says seriously.
Boy who cried wolf and all that.
