Had a less than thrilling farrier visit today.... NEW UPDATE #107

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=Patty Lynch;8130328]
Bah… this is why all farriers should carry it. Nothing personal to owners, but I do it. That way I know it’s done (correctly). Plus, it has to be done on naked feet.

While you wait, Crossapol, Keratex hardener, or Durasole, applied with the foot up, so it goes up the wall separation. Last ditch would be Betadine. Paint his soles as well.[/QUOTE]

Thank you so very much for your help and insight! I agree, it makes sense (and maybe even a little money) to carry products like this on the truck!!! I was actually kind of baffled that he didn’t do any kind of starting treatment to the feet when he discovered all these issues. Blew my mind. But, you live and learn, and perhaps the guy I call after work will have some on HIS truck. He is the sweetest farrier I’ve ever met, doesn’t have that “i’m smarter than you” mentality, works at WEF all winter long, and has a great reputation around here.

[JB]

@One Two Three;8130338

I was actually kind of baffled that he didn’t do any kind of starting treatment to the feet when he discovered all these issues.

Yet another clue that maybe he just doesn’t comprehend what he’s dealing with, in over his head. It’s not uncommon, and it isn’t a slight against a farrier who hasn’t had to deal with something like this, but he should have learned enough in school to recognize this, that he’s in over his head, and to call in reinforcements to help him help you deal with this - know enough to know what he doesn’t know, in other words.

Wishing you the best with a new guy!

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=JB;8130346]
Yet another clue that maybe he just doesn’t comprehend what he’s dealing with, in over his head. It’s not uncommon, and it isn’t a slight against a farrier who hasn’t had to deal with something like this, but he should have learned enough in school to recognize this, that he’s in over his head, and to call in reinforcements to help him help you deal with this - know enough to know what he doesn’t know, in other words.

Wishing you the best with a new guy![/QUOTE]

Thank you very much, JB, as always, love getting sound advice from you & the others! I have learned so much from many of you over the time on COTH and it’s really a great tool when you ask the right questions & give the right details, because you get the best knowledgeable responses in return.

Baby Max has an over worrier for a mamma, so at least he has THAT working for him. No letting him sit around getting worse on my watch. I’d rather over-think something than under-think it!

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=One Two Three;8130369]

Baby Max has an over worrier for a mamma, so at least he has THAT working for him. No letting him sit around getting worse on my watch. I’d rather over-think something than under-think it![/QUOTE]
Nothing wrong with worrying about him.

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;8130415]
Nothing wrong with worrying about him.[/QUOTE]

I like to think that, too.

For the record, I call him Baby Max because his JC name is Baby Maxwell. I’m not THAT crazy :yes:

[candyappy]

@JB;8127303

If one has to tell/ask a farrier to remove toe length, one needs a new farrier.

Easy to say hard to do. In some parts of rural america, we are lucky to get a farrier where this is our only issue. There are times we have to take what we can find and make the most of it.

[JB]

True, but something has to change, or the horse continues to pay the price. This is the reason so many get into learning how to trim and in some cases, put shoes on at least their own horses.

[Mosey_2003]

[QUOTE=candyappy;8130510]
Easy to say hard to do. In some parts of rural america, we are lucky to get a farrier where this is our only issue. There are times we have to take what we can find and make the most of it.[/QUOTE]
This is true. I love my farrier, but I always wished he’d address flares a little more aggressively and back the toe a bit more. But, in my area, and having one horse, I do not mind one bit paying him to do most of the job and then touching it up when he leaves. We have to work with what we have available.

[One_Two_Three]

HEY ALL!

I thought I would come on here and give an update on Maxwell’s feet! They’re not perfect, but I’ve been seeing some AMAZING progress! If you want to get a little more in depth, check out my blog in the signature line. Otherwise, here are some comparison photos from yesterday vs 4/27.

Right Front

Left Front

Right Hind

Left Hind

There are two notable differences from day 1 to day 71. The right front hoof, with the abscess line, is a great representation of how much growth the foot has done, yippee!

The left front shows a chunk of hoof that came off Max’s food last week. It stopped breaking off right where the line in his hoof separates weak/damaged wall from the new healthy wall. He was sound after it happened, and is still sound a week later. Farrier said it’s mostly cosmetic, I intend on keeping it clean, and hope for it to be nearly grown out by next cycle.

As I’ve said, we have a way to go still, but I am very happy with where his feet are at! We have a few trouble spots which may make them look a bit scary (abscess line is getting close, the chunk missing on left front) but after those issues, I feel like I’m going to have some pretty nice feet on my guy!

Thanks for the help, everyone, and a special shout out to Chocomare, as this thread connected us, and she continues to offer her thoughts and advice as they come up!

[JB]

I was all YAY YAY on the front, but “oh dear” on the hinds. The hinds have developed a very noticable bullnose profile, which is not good. The heels have developed that pointy “collapsed” look that isn’t good either.

I would ask the farrier why he thinks that has developed.

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=JB;8218674]
I was all YAY YAY on the front, but “oh dear” on the hinds. The hinds have developed a very noticable bullnose profile, which is not good. The heels have developed that pointy “collapsed” look that isn’t good either.

I would ask the farrier why he thinks that has developed.[/QUOTE]

The back feet have been battling that problem since his race plates were pulled, some cycles it looks worse than others. I haven’t had an in depth discussion with the farrier about it, just been told that he’s sitting at a negative angle that is a slow correction. I will ask for more elaboration at next appointment. Same with heels, I did notice a change to them, but I don’t know enough to know what that change insinuates. I will give farrier a call

However, I’m still really happy with the health of his feet.

I’m still new to the foot game, having really dived into paying attention to the feet, I still have a lot to learn. Geometry wasn’t my strong point (or algebra or statistics, for that matter) so a lot of the mechanics and geometry of the feet confuses me.

Good eye, I’ll have to chat with the farrier.

[JB]

[QUOTE=One Two Three;8218726]
just been told that he’s sitting at a negative angle that is a slow correction.[/QUOTE]

It has developed in 3 months. It’s not correcting, it’s been caused Yes, he is at a negative angle, which is what’s causing the bullnose profile, but that wasn’t the case in April

The heels are now underrun (meaning they aren’t being trimmed (enough)), and there’s a lot of toe that needs to be backed up

[merrygoround]

Chiming in here with JB.

However I do note that the fetlock angle is different in the 4/27 photo and the front wall of the hoof has a rasped appearance.

I would like to see shoes that extend far back on those hind feet, and fit full.

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=JB;8218744]
It has developed in 3 months. It’s not correcting, it’s been caused Yes, he is at a negative angle, which is what’s causing the bullnose profile, but that wasn’t the case in April

The heels are now underrun (meaning they aren’t being trimmed (enough)), and there’s a lot of toe that needs to be backed up[/QUOTE]

RH 5/25 (not standing square)

LH 5/25

pre trim from 5/25

what does that tell you vs the 4/27 and the 7/6 pictures? It seems the heel is more consistent with the 5/25 and the 7/6 picture vs the 4/27. So is this still indicative of negative changes in month 1 to month 2 to month 3? I don’t have a good eye for this stuff, but I think I see what you mean, and that does concern me.

Any thoughts on what might cause this, before I freak out to the farrier?

[SuckerForHorses]

IMO, the left hind went from decent in April, to bad in May, to worse yesterday, in terms of the bullnosed appearance and the heels being underrun.

Excellent progress on the fronts.

Agree with JB on all points.

[SuckerForHorses]

From your blog regarding the Left Hind:

The left hind was never a huge issue. At times it looked a LOT worse than it really was, due to chipping up, but it’s nothing to write home about. In the bottom picture we get a better representation of where the ridges and lines are at, and they’re about even with the lines on the left front, indicating that the weak walls are almost grown out.

Why are you using the ridges on the left FRONT to determine what the left HIND should look like? Typically, fronts and hinds have different angles, and that is a good thing.

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=SuckerForHorses;8218809]
From your blog regarding the Left Hind:

Why are you using the ridges on the left FRONT to determine what the left HIND should look like? Typically, fronts and hinds have different angles, and that is a good thing.[/QUOTE]

just for reference on where the lines are at in proportion to growth. Not where they are based on angles.

[One_Two_Three]

[QUOTE=SuckerForHorses;8218804]
IMO, the left hind went from decent in April, to bad in May, to worse yesterday, in terms of the bullnosed appearance and the heels being underrun.

Excellent progress on the fronts.

Agree with JB on all points.[/QUOTE]

you guys are awesome, even if it’s not the best news, because how would I know that it deserves more attention than it’s getting without you all?!

I’ve got a call into the farrier now to discuss. I’ve compiled the three photos from 4/27 to now into a single photo, to send him. I feel like he probably will think I’m one of those over the top horse owners. But in reality, feet scare me. I’ll be the first to admit I know NOTHING about them, and past horses have all been cakewalks. Max’s feet are far from horrific, but with long pasterns and 6 years of race wear under his belt, he needs to have a supportive correct hoof on all 4 legs.

Hoping I get some positive insight from the farrier. I still struggle with whether or not to fire him when stuff like this comes up. I do feel like this was a rushed job. I wasn’t present for this appointment, and it seems to go that way when owner isn’t there. He’s a good guy, but there’s really no reason why the heels should be going in a backwards trend, when the farrier is aware of the issue, right?

ETA: yay for the front feet improvements, though! And yay for the overall health of the tissues. His feet were really icky there for a while.

[One_Two_Three]

Just heard back from the farrier. Preliminary answer was “it seems like he is wearing down his heels” he also goes on to say that he noticed some lines, and asked about his food. (he’s on a low nsc 9% food which WAS changed just over a month ago), and offered to come out to the farm next week to discuss. We shall see.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

shakes head He’s not wearing down his heels. Apparently he does not understand how to correctly manage those feet.

You might benefit by shopping for a new farrier.