Heidi Degele competing in Amateur???

[SonnysMom]

@Manni01

And now this discussion is back to the AA rules in the US which are in fact a reason for this thread. They are made for rich AAs who want to have a protected terrain to play… I think the rules are pretty ridiculous and make it even harder for people with less money.

A nice theoretical example… Somebody has a friend riding one of his horses which needs to be ridden Sometimes the owner helps the friend with the horse… He does not take money because it’s a friend. The friend gives him sometimes home baked cookies and other goods…
Now the owner is technically a pro…
I think this thread is going along nicely with this… The people who only pay for their sport are very alert not to let anybody into their classes who makes a living from horses because they feel ripped off…
it’s a crooked system

You need to go read the AA rules for USEf again. Those home baked goods and other goods need to add to to a minimum amount. Under permitted activities: Accept a non-monetary token gift of appreciation valued less than $300 annually. That is a lot of cookies.

[SonnysMom]

I don’t know the other USEF pro that was mentioned in this thread. I have heard of Heidi since I see her FB ads for sales horses routinely. I don’t compete in recognized dressage yet knew by the USEF definition she is a pro due to her FB ads. My guess is that OP singled out Heidi since she is higher profile doing sales so OP quickly recognized she was a pro. If the other USEF pros dont have as much of a name recognition then OP would have had to looks them up.

[Manni01]

@Kemosabe

I am wondering why this thread is still alive

Why not? There have been worse threads in the past…

[Manni01]

@SonnysMom

You need to go read the AA rules for USEf again. Those home baked goods and other goods need to add to to a minimum amount. Under permitted activities: Accept a non-monetary token gift of appreciation valued less than $300 annually. That is a lot of cookies.

Thank you for mentioning this minimum amount… Yes $300 per year…have you looked at prices for cookies lately??

[Manni01]

@SonnysMom

I don’t know the other USEF pro that was mentioned in this thread. I have heard of Heidi since I see her FB ads for sales horses routinely. I don’t compete in recognized dressage yet knew by the USEF definition she is a pro due to her FB ads. My guess is that OP singled out Heidi since she is higher profile doing sales so OP quickly recognized she was a pro. If the other USEF pros dont have as much of a name recognition then OP would have had to looks them up.

I have heard that there was quite a discussion about it in Wellington, and thats what the OP mentioned as well. I guess she singled out H D because that’s what everybody else did. Usually it works like this…

Overall it seems to be a typical mean girl thing. My apologies that I even mentioned the word money, probably not even connected to money at all…
Just a crowd of people who decide they dislike something and team up agains the object of dislike…

[Pennywell_Bay]

@SonnysMom - I’d be up for the $300 cookie challenge ( you beat me to saying the USEF limit).

She is within her rights and the rules, because she qualifies as an ammy. Not USEF ammy but FEI ammy. Therefore- she can compete as such.

Personally, I think everyone is being super hard on the OP. Taking shots because she can afford to be showing on the circuit etc. Bettering yourself and your ride is the name of the game- is it really that bad to want to ribbon? Maybe she wasn’t fully aware of the rule difference- now she is. I may be surprised if a pro was in a class and I didn’t understand why. Yes- know the rules. OP needs to shift her mindset that she isn’t playing in the USEF realm, it is a different balIgame with different rules. You can accept those rules or don’t show at that level.

I really don’t like a few USEF ammy rules myself (I can’t lunge a trainer’s horse or I’m a “pro”, since I own my own farm I can not swing a leg over a horse that isn’t mine or I am a pro. This came to my attention when my best friend was away and I wanted to hack her horse for her-he lived with me. Trainer was like - no can do as an ammy. I SHOULD have known that). When I was clear on the rules- I don’t do that behavior. I don’t like it. I think I may complain once in a while to a few friends- especially since another “ammy” around here DOES ride boarders horses. All I can do is chose to accept the rules with integrity or play in unrated. Either way- I ride and worry about myself.

[alibi_18]

@SonnysMom

I don’t know the other USEF pro that was mentioned in this thread. I have heard of Heidi since I see her FB ads for sales horses routinely. I don’t compete in recognized dressage yet knew by the USEF definition she is a pro due to her FB ads. My guess is that OP singled out Heidi since she is higher profile doing sales so OP quickly recognized she was a pro. If the other USEF pros dont have as much of a name recognition then OP would have had to looks them up.

And yet, no one should have cared about USEF…

[Manni01]

@Pennywell Bay

@SonnysMom - I’d be up for the $300 cookie challenge ( you beat me to saying the USEF limit).

She is within her rights and the rules, because she qualifies as an ammy. Not USEF ammy but FEI ammy. Therefore- she can compete as such.

Personally, I think everyone is being super hard on the OP. Taking shots because she can afford to be showing on the circuit etc. Bettering yourself and your ride is the name of the game- is it really that bad to want to ribbon? Maybe she wasn’t fully aware of the rule difference- now she is. I may be surprised if a pro was in a class and I didn’t understand why. Yes- know the rules. OP needs to shift her mindset that she isn’t playing in the USEF realm, it is a different balIgame with different rules. You can accept those rules or don’t show at that level.

I really don’t like a few USEF ammy rules myself (I can’t lunge a trainer’s horse or I’m a “pro”, since I own my own farm I can not swing a leg over a horse that isn’t mine or I am a pro). When I was clear on the rules- I don’t do that behavior. I don’t like it. I think I may complain once in a while to a few friends- especially since another “ammy” around here DOES ride boarders horses. All I can do is chose to accept the rules with integrity or play in unrated.

I agree with most of your post, and I was sarcastic about the cookie thing…

but I am not sure about the OP .
For a while I would have agreed with you, but obviously there was a big discussion about it in Wellington and the OP was just part of a group. So obviously none of the riders in this class was aware of the rules…
So a group of riders. (Ok I am not saying a group of super rich AAs) is entering a show and finds out that a rider who is different from them entered the show as well… So they teamed up and complained. None of them was aware of the rules, they simply disliked it…

sounds like a lovely Szenario to me…

and a very fitting addition :(.

I just read a FB post of one of the competitors…She described the show and then she said “Congratulations to all my fellow AAs”
so no congratulations to the participating pros???
Obviously she still has no ideas about the rules…

[alibi_18]

@Manni01

I agree with most of your post, and I was sarcastic about the cookie thing…

but I am not sure about the OP .
For a while I would have agreed with you, but obviously there was a big discussion about it in Wellington and the OP was just part of a group. So obviously none of the riders in this class was aware of the rules…

?!? Every rider in this class but the OP knew about the rule.

So a group of riders. (…) is entering a show and finds out that a rider who is different from them entered the show as well… So they teamed up and complained. None of them was aware of the rules, they simply disliked it…

sounds like a lovely Szenario to me…

and a very fitting addition :(.

I just read a FB post of one of the competitors…She described the show and then she said “Congratulations to all my fellow AAs”
so no congratulations to the participating pros???
Obviously she still has no ideas about the rules…

They were all AA in this class…

[RainWeasley]

Personally, I much prefer the FEI Amateur than the USEF one. Under USEF, I qualify as a pro because I gave some lessons at a crappy horse camp for about a year because I needed a job. If I competed in dressage (which maybe i will get to one day), I have to be a pro, even though I can barely take my green horse around the dressage ring correctly one time and have NO idea what I’m doing. And that is honestly the same for most disciplines in the US, not just USEF. I’m not sure why our “professional” ended up being “anyone that might have gotten some kind of compensation for anything related to horses regardless of what discipline it is” (I know it’s a bit more detailed than that but generally speaking). Maybe they just wanted to make larger classes for the pros for whatever reason?

As for the OP…I totally understand why you feel the way you do. That being said, I do agree that you are playing by different rules in an international competition. Now you will know for the future. But just remember, if you read this, that just because someone is a “pro” in the US sense of the word doesn’t mean that you aren’t riding at their level. Take a bit of comfort in the fact that you are good enough to ride against a “pro”!

[Pennywell_Bay]

@Manni01

I agree with most of your post, and I was sarcastic about the cookie thing…

but I am not sure about the OP .
For a while I would have agreed with you, but obviously there was a big discussion about it in Wellington and the OP was just part of a group. So obviously none of the riders in this class was aware of the rules…
So a group of riders. (Ok I am not saying a group of super rich AAs) is entering a show and finds out that a rider who is different from them entered the show as well… So they teamed up and complained. None of them was aware of the rules, they simply disliked it…

sounds like a lovely Szenario to me…

and a very fitting addition :(.

I just read a FB post of one of the competitors…She described the show and then she said “Congratulations to all my fellow AAs”
so no congratulations to the participating pros???
Obviously she still has no ideas about the rules…

I knew the cookie thing was tongue-and-cheek, so to speak

I wasn’t aware of the discussion of the group of riders (must have missed that in the thread)- a whole group of people not knowing the rules-eyeroll.

I wish people could celebrate and be happy for other people’s success. I just had this convo. I recently purchased a new horse. It is going to take us a lot longer to get where I want to go. She has exposed a HUGE gap in my riding that my other mare seems to hide- I joke that Mare 1 made my trainer and everyone think I was better than I am. So when this first became apparent- it stung. It was a huge disappointment for me. Not going to lie- it was soul crushing that I spent a lot of money, gave it a lot of time and thought- and am back behind square 1. EDIT- just saw A18’s update that a class had all AAs. So now it is back to USEF? sorry I missed the FEI-USEF transition. sigh

I had a friend who also just purchased a new horse. They click, the horse is everything she dreamed and probably more. So instead of being miserable- it helped pull me out of my funk to be genuinely happy for my barn friend. She’s going to get where she want’s to go quicker. I am going to get to develop some new skills and fill in some gaps.

I wish people could re-set their thinking. And I know it is hard. But overall it gives you a better sense of calm to focus on yourself and your horse.

Pennywell Bay- arm chair psychologist for the day

[SillyHorse]

@SonnysMom

I don’t know the other USEF pro that was mentioned in this thread. I have heard of Heidi since I see her FB ads for sales horses routinely. I don’t compete in recognized dressage yet knew by the USEF definition she is a pro due to her FB ads. My guess is that OP singled out Heidi since she is higher profile doing sales so OP quickly recognized she was a pro. If the other USEF pros dont have as much of a name recognition then OP would have had to looks them up.

USEF rules are irrelevant here. Heidi was playing by the FEI rules for the FEI class she entered.

[Manni01]

@alibi_18

?!? Every rider in this class but the OP knew about the rule.

They were all AA in this class…

No , Sorry maybe I worded it wrong… NONE of the rides knew That FEI rules are different from USEF rules otherwise there would have been no discussion

Oh so you think that post on FB used the FEI meaning of the word AA? Maybe you are right

[Manni01]

@Pennywell Bay

I knew the cookie thing was tongue-and-cheek, so to speak

I wasn’t aware of the discussion of the group of riders (must have missed that in the thread)- a whole group of people not knowing the rules-eyeroll.

I wish people could celebrate and be happy for other people’s success. I just had this convo. I recently purchased a new horse. It is going to take us a lot longer to get where I want to go. She has exposed a HUGE gap in my riding that my other mare seems to hide- I joke that Mare 1 made my trainer and everyone think I was better than I am. So when this first became apparent- it stung. It was a huge disappointment for me. Not going to lie- it was soul crushing that I spent a lot of money, gave it a lot of time and thought- and am back behind square 1. EDIT- just saw A18’s update that a class had all AAs. So now it is back to USEF? sorry I missed the FEI-USEF transition. sigh

I had a friend who also just purchased a new horse. They click, the horse is everything she dreamed and probably more. So instead of being miserable- it helped pull me out of my funk to be genuinely happy for my barn friend. She’s going to get where she want’s to go quicker. I am going to get to develop some new skills and fill in some gaps.

I wish people could re-set their thinking. And I know it is hard. But overall it gives you a better sense of calm to focus on yourself and your horse.

Pennywell Bay- arm chair psychologist for the day

All the best for you and your new horse!!! You will grow together as a team and you will learn a lot!! In the end it will be an advantage!!

[Manni01]

@Fletch1

TD AZ- FWIW- Alice Tarjan is an attorney, and does not make her living selling other people’s horses, training other people’s horses or teaching lessons. Before I get flamed further, I was interested in opinions from places outside Wellington that don’t have 6 CDI’s a year. These opinions have been interesting and quite different than those expressed here locally. Many thanks for the thoughts (I’m excluding the lovely lady who called me a “Whiner” twice from this).

Just wanted to quote this post, where the OP mentioned that there were opinions expressed locally…

[Highflyer]

@RainWeasley

Personally, I much prefer the FEI Amateur than the USEF one. Under USEF, I qualify as a pro because I gave some lessons at a crappy horse camp for about a year because I needed a job. If I competed in dressage (which maybe i will get to one day), I have to be a pro, even though I can barely take my green horse around the dressage ring correctly one time and have NO idea what I’m doing. And that is honestly the same for most disciplines in the US, not just USEF. I’m not sure why our “professional” ended up being “anyone that might have gotten some kind of compensation for anything related to horses regardless of what discipline it is” (I know it’s a bit more detailed than that but generally speaking). Maybe they just wanted to make larger classes for the pros for whatever reason?

As for the OP…I totally understand why you feel the way you do. That being said, I do agree that you are playing by different rules in an international competition. Now you will know for the future. But just remember, if you read this, that just because someone is a “pro” in the US sense of the word doesn’t mean that you aren’t riding at their level. Take a bit of comfort in the fact that you are good enough to ride against a “pro”!

Because people complained bitterly about the alternative-- that said, you know that under USEF rules you can transition from being a pro to an amateur if it’s been more a year since you did any professional activities, right? There’s a clearly laid out process, it’s a bit of a hassle but certainly not impossible.

[alibi_18]

@Manni01

Oh so you think that post on FB used the FEI meaning of the word AA? Maybe you are right

Indeed, I’m sure that friend of yours who posted on FB used the word AA as per the FEI meaning.

[alibi_18]

@Highflyer

Because people complained bitterly about the alternative-- that said, you know that under USEF rules you can transition from being a pro to an amateur if it’s been more a year since you did any professional activities, right? There’s a clearly laid out process, it’s a bit of a hassle but certainly not impossible.

Not only that but I think we can assume @RainWeasley never competed and most probably never registered as a pro with USEF (or any other organisation)… there won’t be any hassle.

You don’t qualify at all as a pro and you can just get your amateur card when you’ll be ready to show.

So folks, what have we learned today?

Before getting upset, angry and petty, we need to read the rules for ourselves!!!

[soloudinhere]

I don’t think there was some big group discussion about this rider. Certainly I didn’t hear it at the showgrounds so it’s not like the whole showgrounds was buzzing.

[Manni01]

@soloudinhere

I don’t think there was some big group discussion about this rider. Certainly I didn’t hear it at the showgrounds so it’s not like the whole showgrounds was buzzing.

Great to hear, I was told about by somebody who wasn’t even there that there was a discussion about it and that people thought she shouldnt ride in this class… and the OP mentioned as well… i quoted her post…