HORRIFIC Video of horse being abused as Monty Roberts watches....

[QUOTE=gottagrey;7537147]
Belmont - sure plenty of trainers have used chain shanks but I don’t know any that lunge with one.[/QUOTE]

…Clearly you never met my old H/J trainer. Not to mention why do many, many lunge lines come with chains if you aren’t going to use them?

Way too many choppy edits and some of the edits (cutting out HOW they got the horse down especially) make me suspect it’s edited to look worse than it was. The horse wasn’t bleeding or with broken bones and I couldn’t tell what was going on well enough to call it horrible. (Have no problem with the notion of using the rope on the hindquarters to move him, I just don’t know what they were trying to achieve by moving him but constantly trying to turn him around once he does move…I don’t know about horrible, but I suspect the horse wound up very confused by that part.)

In 2011 Monty was invited to demonstrate at the conference of the Mangalarga Marchedor breed association in Brazil. He was taken to the “contest” when he first arrived on the grounds. He witnessed theses traditional harsh methods and was appalled. He immediately took the trainers aside and began to teach his methods to horsemen using them in his gentle demonstrations to show how quickly change can happen when horses are treated with respect and kindness. See the complete story here http://youtu.be/gauzqQa3yWg By June of 2012 Queen Elizabeth Awarded South Americans who learned Monty’s non-violent training and changed their methods to Monty’s.
This video was posted, likely trying to stop the revolution that is happening in Brazil away from violence.
Solvang, CA. On the 24th of June, 2012 Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II awarded several persons recommended by famed horse gentler Monty Roberts for their pioneering efforts to encourage violence-free training in South America where extremely harsh traditional horsemanship has been the norm for centuries. Monty personally witnessed this and then trained horsemen to violence-free way.

Signed certificates were presented by Queen Elizabeth II stating that The Queen acknowledges these persons for their extraordinary efforts to eliminate violence in the training of horses, followed by their country’s name. The Queen awarded these certificates during ceremonies at the Al Habtoor Royal Windsor Polo Cup, Guards Polo Club, Windsor, England.

Monty Roberts assisted The Queen to present the chosen recipients with their awards for commitment to his violence-free Join-Up® concepts. Recipients chosen are Adolfo Cambiaso (Argentina), Carlos Gracida (Mexico and Argentina), Memo Gracida (Mexico and Argentina), Catherine Cunningham (Guatemala), Eduardo Moreira (Brazil), Joel Baker (USA), Mateus Ribeiro (Brazil), and Satish Seemar (Dubai).

On June 6, 2011, Queen Elizabeth II presented Monty Roberts with Her Majesty’s personal honors. At Buckingham Palace, Monty received the Member of the Victorian Order (M.V.O), an award with medal citing his work on behalf of the Royal Stables. Her Majesty’s statements included acknowledgment of Monty’s work globally with people as well as horses. The Queen has been outspoken in her support of his non-violent message for horses and for people, too. From this point forward, Monty will be known as Monty Roberts, M.V.O.

“Years ago when Her Majesty first watched me Join-Up with a filly of the Queen Mother’s, she asked me right there to take this to the world and get busy. Her Majesty’s specific request was that wherever I go on these travels, please would I support therapeutic riding.”

Monty Roberts is traveling and demonstrating around the world. He is training horses in front of live audiences, staying the course to his mission “to leave the world a better place for horses and for people, too.” Monty will be doing an intensive five day clinic at his California Flag Is Up Farms in August. Attendees from around the world will come to see a master at work. In autumn Monty will tour England in October and Germany in November.

MONTY ROBERTS AVAILABLE FOR SELECT INTERVIEWS:
MONTY ROBERTS first gained widespread fame with the release of his New York Times Best Selling book, The Man Who Listens To Horses; which remained on the New York Times Best Selling list for 58 weeks. The book chronicles his life and development of his non-violent horse training methods called Join-Up®. Monty grew up with horses in Salinas, California and was a witness to traditional, often extremely violent horse training methods. Rejecting that, he went on to win nine world’s championships in the show rings of the world. Today, Monty’s goal is to share his message that “Violence is never the answer.” Roberts has been encouraged by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, as well as being the recipient of the ASPCA “Founders” award and the MSPCA George T. Angell Humanitarian Award. In an effort to help more horses, and people, globally, he launched his Equus Online University; an interactive online lesson site that is already being considered the most effective educational tool for horsemen on the web.
Join-Up philosophies can be seen at work with both humans and horses around the world, from farms to major corporations. No more significant change has ever been made in the training of animals than the principles and discoveries of Monty Roberts. His work is now bridging the gap to include the behavior of humans interacting with other humans. In recent years the work of Monty Roberts has included courses for returning war heroes with PTSD. These sessions have produced incredibly positive results. To learn more about Monty Roberts or the many applications of his Join-Up training methods, visit www.montyroberts.com .

[QUOTE=Guilherme;7537952]

They are not welcome in any hunt field I’m aware of. .[/QUOTE]

I hunted the sire of my present stallion.
Tanheath.
Not a problem.

I’m the type of person to hate to sound dramatic or overly emotional… but that video left me feeling disgusted.

If you look at the horse at the end of it all, you can see it’s gone - physically, mentally, and completely broken.

[QUOTE=danceronice;7538019]
The horse wasn’t bleeding …[/QUOTE]
I guess nose blood doesn’t count.

I really don’t care what Monty Roberts did or didn’t do. I am more disturbed that there are COTH members who – never mind wouldn’t have done anything – they will actually defend this as appropriate horse handling.

[QUOTE=Cindyg;7538286]
I really don’t care what Monty Roberts did or didn’t do. I am more disturbed that there are COTH members who – never mind wouldn’t have done anything – they will actually defend this as appropriate horse handling.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think anyone is actually defending the way the horse was treated in the video - at least, not saying it was good horsemanship.

I don’t see anyone defending the methods.

I see explanations of why some cultures feel the methods are necessary.

It’s a different culture. I think the videos of people leading in a cow, slashing its neck, catching the blood and DRINKING IT HOT while the animal dies is disgusting, but that’s their culture or religion. Or whatever.

We are not from there. We don’t have to practice it. But just like you wouldn’t want someone to run up to you trying to teach Dobbin to stand with his foot in a bucket of epson salt water and start beating him, don’t go that you want to run to this culture and yank the rope away and start showering Dobbin with apples and rhythm beads. Neither are likely to end well.

[QUOTE=Schune;7538223]
I’m the type of person to hate to sound dramatic or overly emotional… but that video left me feeling disgusted.

If you look at the horse at the end of it all, you can see it’s gone - physically, mentally, and completely broken.[/QUOTE]

Ditto.
And it still bothers me that COTHers are defending? embracing? supporting? explaining? this method and jumping to the conclusion that those of us that are “horrified” by it are the fluffy-bunny-lovey-dovey type.
There is a VAST array of training methods that are fair to the horse without being cruel.
I, for one, am very aware that the 1200 lbs quadruped next to me could easily kill me if it chose to, bur I don’t go beating them to a pulp.

Cultural differences might be an explanation, but they are not an excuse.

Just because someone takes a gentle approach, that does not make it “fluffbunny.” There is a clear, rational difference between cruelty and valuable discipline.

People so often want to polarize things – take children for example. “Back in the day,” no one would speak up if you beat your child bloody. It was called “parenting,” and some people think we need more of it today. Too many spoiled brats running around with entitlement mentality.

Well here’s the truth: beating your child bloody was just as bad 50 years ago as it would be today. It did not produce model citizens, it was just plain mean and wrong. Refusing to beat your child does not mean you are going to let him or her run all over you and become an entitled little sh*t.

Rational discipline – with both children and animals – works.

What was going on in that video is clearly macho-ism by the so-called cowboys, it’s mean and cruel and completely unnecessary. That horse had no way of knowing what was being asked of him. The “fact” that these methods can produce “good-usin” horses (seriously?) is immaterial. The ends does not justify the means.

I, too, have no idea what Monty Roberts was doing there and certainly won’t comment on his reaction without knowing it. But those here on CoTH who think this is okay, or perhaps even better than our “fluffbunny” approach – those people flat out frighten me.

Violence should never be the go-to method, first-choice approach. That just demeans us.

And – some yahoo on here said that because Catholics don’t believe animals have souls and how we treat them does not matter? First, my catechism teaches that God created the earth and every living thing upon it. That He notices even when a sparrow falls. My catechism teaches that He does care (and have you even HEARD of St. Francis of Assisi??? – I mean, since we’re talking about Catholics). Second, it’s really not about the animal, it’s about the human. We are the ones with sentient thought, we are the ones responsible for how we behave.

Stepping off my soap box – going out to ride one of my completely non-rank gentlemanly geldings trained with fluffbunny methods.

We have our first quasi-houseguest! happy clap

[QUOTE=californianinkansas;7538425]
We have our first quasi-houseguest! happy clap[/QUOTE]

It only counts if you are planning on getting drunk.

Here is the story behind the Brazilian Horse Breaking footage

[QUOTE=Freebird!;7536945]
This was so horrible that I had to fast forward through a lot of it.

http://youtu.be/YqIdnqPhSf4

Thoughts?

Does anyone know the story behind it, mainly why Mr. Roberts was there, and why he couldn’t do anything to stop it? I’m afraid to ask about the fate of the horse…[/QUOTE]
In 2011 Monty was invited to demonstrate at the Mangalarga Marchedor conference. On the first day he witnessed their traditional harsh “horse breaking” contest while touring the fairgrounds. For the next 3 days he asked the main “breaker” to help him with his demonstrations of “horse gentling” where the horse quietly accepts his first saddle in about 30 minutes. By June 2012 Queen Elizabeth Awarded South Americans Who Learned Monty’s non-violent training and changed their methods to Monty’s
See here: http://youtu.be/gauzqQa3yWg
NEWS: On the 24th of June, 2012 Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II awarded several persons recommended by famed horse gentler Monty Roberts for their pioneering efforts to encourage violence-free training in South America where extremely harsh traditional horsemanship has been the norm for centuries. Monty personally witnessed this and then trained horsemen to violence-free way.

Signed certificates were presented by Queen Elizabeth II stating that The Queen acknowledges these persons for their extraordinary efforts to eliminate violence in the training of horses, followed by their country’s name. The Queen awarded these certificates during ceremonies at the Al Habtoor Royal Windsor Polo Cup, Guards Polo Club, Windsor, England.

Monty Roberts assisted The Queen to present the chosen recipients with their awards for commitment to his violence-free Join-Up® concepts. Recipients chosen are Adolfo Cambiaso (Argentina), Carlos Gracida (Mexico and Argentina), Memo Gracida (Mexico and Argentina), Catherine Cunningham (Guatemala), Eduardo Moreira (Brazil), Joel Baker (USA), Mateus Ribeiro (Brazil), and Satish Seemar (Dubai).

On June 6, 2011, Queen Elizabeth II presented Monty Roberts with Her Majesty’s personal honors. At Buckingham Palace, Monty received the Member of the Victorian Order (M.V.O), an award with medal citing his work on behalf of the Royal Stables. Her Majesty’s statements included acknowledgment of Monty’s work globally with people as well as horses. The Queen has been outspoken in her support of his non-violent message for horses and for people, too. From this point forward, Monty will be known as Monty Roberts, M.V.O.

“Years ago when Her Majesty first watched me Join-Up with a filly of the Queen Mother’s, she asked me right there to take this to the world and get busy. Her Majesty’s specific request was that wherever I go on these travels, please would I support therapeutic riding.”

Monty Roberts is traveling and demonstrating around the world. He is training horses in front of live audiences, staying the course to his mission “to leave the world a better place for horses and for people, too.” Monty will be doing an intensive five day clinic at his Solvang, California Flag Is Up Farms in August. Attendees from around the world will come to see a master at work. In autumn Monty will tour England in October and Germany in November.

Dear Debbie.
Thank you for providing some background.
While the forum isn’t exactly Monty friendly, I - personally - would appreciate a reply though that is a little less canned and promotional.

I hope he can start a movement in South America to make events as the ‘traditional’ demo a thing of the past.

I agree. This wasn’t the time to tout his demonstrations in my opinion.

Thank you both!

Yes - ditto both Alagirl and Laurierace. :yes:

I have to agree that justifying this horse abuse is quite sad. I have also witnessed child abuse by a parent of a small child, seeing someone abuse a child and responding “I have seen worse” is apathetic and sad.

That is how this kind of behavior becomes tolerated.

Truely do not understand

…What they’re trying to accomplish? You mat temporarily make the horse “shut down” but it will never be a giving, enjoyable partner when it fears your every movement:mad:

[QUOTE=JULSCARVER;7540168]
…What they’re trying to accomplish? You mat temporarily make the horse “shut down” but it will never be a giving, enjoyable partner when it fears your every movement:mad:[/QUOTE]
Don’t worry, fear will turn to resignation / acceptance - maybe something even better than that. I’m sure the horse will be happy enough in time.