Horse bolting inconsistently while being led....need advice

Yes and no :rofl: Wracking our brains and trying to assign scenarios or blame to behaviours that are ingrained is a waste of energy that could be better spent working with the horse. UNLESS, we know we are the cause of the behaviour because of a very clear mistake we made/made repetitively. Even then, we need to be able to check our list, tell ourselves we were an arsehole, get over our guilt, and do better by never making that particular mistake again.

As Iā€™ve aged, when someone tries to give an explanation for some hole in manners training, Iā€™ve more and more often said, ā€œIt doesnā€™t matter. What will going back in this horseā€™s personal diary tell us especially when we donā€™t have an accurate copy of this horseā€™s diary? What matters is that we fix this issue and teach this horse that he/she can be a solid citizen. You are not doing yourself, and more importantly your horse any favours by doing brain contortions or by trying to assign blame or make excuses. Somewhere along the line something went wrong. We need to fix it. That is all that matters.ā€

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I appreciate wanting to find a cause, it can certainly help give direction in solution that could maybe not exacerbate the problem. Unless you have had the horse since birth and either solely handled said horse or witnessed everyone who didā€¦youā€™re never going to know. What ifs donā€™t actually matter today. Mental energy is better spent figuring out how to deal with now.

It also sounds like that answer is already available given he was betting roughed up and started acting out after that. Unless I missed something? You would have to ask the staff/BO what happened that instigated them having to have a rougher handle on him.

Edit. Youā€™ve also only had him a year and heā€™s been at multiple barns during that short time. It can takes months and months with a new horse to see who they really are. And in your case, that cycle is likely starting over every time you move.

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@staciemac13 Kudos for your tactful and polite responses on this thread. Just remember that you can ignore the, shall we say ā€œunhelpfulā€ comments. :wink:

My Wobbler was a random, rarely occurred, bolter. It took years to figure out triggers because it happened so rarely. He, like yours, would choose to run back to his safe place near his herd. But there was zero herdbound drive in the cause of his bolting.

His bolting came from a need to escape a stressful situation. Leaving, not going somewhere, was the impetus. The stress was not always apparent, but when he reached his rabbit limit, he had to leave.

I think the neurological stuff from the Wobblers was always causing him some degree of anxiety, or even uncomfortable nerve stimulus, and on days when it was worse he was less capable of handling additional rabbits. One day he was bolting, could not settle, and I put him back in his field. The next day I found a hole in his foot where an abscess had blown out, and he was a perfect angel that day.

I got the rabbit theory from Warwick Schiller, and developed a training path specifically for my horse to help him learn to let go of his rabbits. Letting go of rabbits meaning to release the anxiety and tension from whatever cause. I have more recently investigated the TRT method, and it has specific exercises to help the horse learn to release tension and anxiety. I have used these exercises successfully on other horses. I think you might find them useful, as it sounds like what you are doing is similar (but without understanding what, why, etc behind it).

That said, the neck issues could very definitely be contributing to the bolting. If thereā€™s any degeneration, that could produce a very abrupt change in behaviour, and/or tolerance of anxiety triggers. I recognize that my Wobbler is affecting my view when I say that I would personally have a neurological assessment done.

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I wonder if @staciemac13 meant ā€œwhat set him off in this bolting incident todayā€ because identifying that cause can be a huge help in resolving the problem.

When I figured out my horseā€™s bolting was caused by anxiety overload, that was the key to fixing the problem. I didnā€™t need to know what caused the anxiety, but knowing it was anxiety and not simply ā€œI want my buddiesā€, or ā€œI want grassā€, or " I donā€™t want to play human games today" did allow me to find the right solution.

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Maybe? But, I personally have not found even that to be helpful. It just causes the human to fixate on that. They then end up finding myriad ways to avoid that thing forever after, or spending so much time on that thing than on helping the horse to move more easily and confidently in the human world.

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I got some really helpful advice in my similar thread:

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I actually have thought about purchasing the TRT method training series as it def seems very helpful. I will check it out more. thanks

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Thank you this is helpful as well. I have done something similar when my mare used to be hard to lunge at the canter (and only at the canter) so I will give it a try as well.

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Yes and I agree that I will never know his history and while that is hard for me (since having my other horse from such a young age-I made the choice to buy him not knowing). I am focused on what is causing the issues in the present but also wanted to basically make a timeline of the issues to see if I missed something obvious I Was doing or that changed in his environment etc that could help me understand it a bit more. IT sucks we have had to change barns but we are at a great place now with a great trainer so we wont be moving again anytime soon. Luckily my trainer, farrier and vet all work together and are on board to help me get this figured out and agree with our plan right now. I am going to keep working on ground work and apply some of the techniques folks have mentioned here. Luckily he has been really good under saddle (had a great ride and jump school today including a very peaceful walk to the indoor-even when other horses were being tacked up below etc) I will prob always spend a lot of mental energy on my horses because that is who I am and I want them to always feel their best since they have to carry me around haha.

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We fundamentally agree completely.

I completely get what you are saying. Iā€™m not a person who ā€œneedsā€ a reason. Iā€™m perfectly comfortable with the unknown. And I totally agree trying to apply a reason turns into a useless time suck that paralyzes progress.

But I think for the horseā€™s sake, you need to treat them like a partner and consider things from their POV. That doesnā€™t mean making excuses, but that means considering the full situation to fix the problem.

For example, it absolutely matters if the bolting stems from a physical problem versus a handler problem versus a hole in training. That doesnā€™t excuse any of it, but it changes how you would approach it.

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Well, that point flew over.

Navel gaze as much as you want. We all do it. But, we need to understand that it doesnā€™t help our horses in the here and now and that it will not lead us to some magical cure or even further our understanding of the issue at hand.

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again I dont understand the issue with spending time and energy on my horses well being-where did it say that I was not going to focus on the here and now as well. I think you might need to back off on your approach with me as well. If you are trying to make a point that is helpful, making the other person feel bad for being honest and vulnerable doesnt help get your point across. It just puts them on the defense.
I am not asking for a magical cure but I will damn sure make sure I try to understand things from a horses POV as well. Maybe you dont have kids but horses and other animals seem to be similar in that treating them all the same isnt going to work. Some people are tactical learners while others are visual etc, Horses (and other animals) have things that work for some and not for others so why wouldnt I try to understand as much as I can about my horse to make a long term partnership work while also making sure I get the horse to have good ground manners etc. Again I am not looking for a magic cure and nor do I think that fixing his neck etc are going to magically make this go away. I am fine to do the work and be consistent but I will always want to look at what else may be a factor. I also dont shy away from things that cause a horse to spook-in fact quite the opposite FYI

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Yes thank you I agree in trying to understand the horses POV as well. I think he has a mix of the issues you mentioned above and clearly when it started happening with me I was not prepared for how much of an issue that was going to be and I have been clear about how I have tried to get help etc. I am looking out for my horses and my best interest and that includes researching and asking people so that I can learn as much as I Can to help fix the issue. Hence why I came here. It just doesnt always seem like some of the folks responding can see where I am coming from.

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Apart from fixing anything physical that may need to be addressed, it all of it boils down to a communication breakdown. The conversation, for me is exactly the same in all three cases.

Horse: Iā€™m uncomfortable and I donā€™t have the tools to deal with this so Iā€™m going to go on instinct here, Sorry, see ya, bye.

Human formerly attached to horse: I have (or someone else has) failed you. Letā€™s give you the tools you need to keep yourself comfortable and your humans safe.

So yes, I think we fundamentally agree, but beyond noting that something caused discomfort or someone seriously screwed the horse up, the solution is always the same (and physical items have been addressed in the case of pain) no matter the reason. Beyond reminding ourselves that this wonā€™t necessarily be quickly fixed because the horseā€™s screwed uppedness has been thoroughly reinforced for however long, the reason really wonā€™t have an effect on the solution.

Because no matter what, youā€™re not going to come up with the truth about whatever it was that happened to cause your horse to bolt. And even if you do by some major miracle, it wonā€™t help you deal with the issue.

We ALL go down this road now and again. Some of us that have done it repeatedly and watched others also do it repeatedly have a whole steamer trunk full of experience on this. Keep it to yourself (on your drive, at home, anywhere but when you are with/handling your horse) - donā€™t waste your horseā€™s time, your horse needs far more practical solutions.

Nobody at all ever said that all horses learn the same way. Nobody said that all people (or children) learn the same way. They donā€™t.

[quote=ā€œstaciemac13, post:92, topic:795066ā€]
I dont understand the issue with spending time and energy on my horses well being
[/quote] Nobody has any issue with this, but donā€™t be delusional that twisting your brain into knots over the reasons and the whereforetos is helping your horse, it is maybe helping you ā€¦ or likely not. Often times that sort of brain-bending overthinking can instill inertia, fear, or almost worse, steer a person down a wrong path.

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why do you assume I am not keeping it to myself and not when I am handling my horse?? I keep a very calm demeanor when he does this as I learned that from liberty and it has really helped with my interactions with him. I am not wasting my horses time since the stuff I am doing are practical. Again not sure why you seem to come to comment if you cant maybe soften your approach a bit more and stop making assumptions.

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I havenā€™t read all of the replies, so Iā€™m sure youā€™ve gotten a lot of great advice and questions asked. I think I saw ulcers mentioned, and that was my first thought. I saw in one of your own posts the thought of pain, and thatā€™s also my thought.

My gelding went through a time like this when I moved him to a boarding barn after his last remaining buddy passed away and I sold my farm. My gelding had lived on that farm since he was a yearling and was 10 when I moved him. He seemed to do okay at first, but eventually his behavior declined and he eventually got so stressed out by being brought into or even NEAR the barn (he was pasture boarded, but needed to come in for grooming, tacking, etc.) that heā€™d attempt to turn and not run but slowly drag me back toward the pasture. I had to be super firm and diligent about keeping his attention, and all that wound up doing was getting me into the barn with a horse that was then on high-alert, completely bugging out and inconsolable. There were times I couldnā€™t keep him in the barn aisle because he was so uptight and anxious he was literally trembling, wild-eyed, and just desperate to be out of there. I worked and worked and worked with him, and some days I would break down crying because my quiet, sensible, sweet boy was an absolute basket case and I couldnā€™t figure out why.

Long story short: his back was sore and would go into spasms when heā€™d get a little uptight, and then it was like a vicious cycle of him anticipating the muscle spasms, that tension causing the muscle spasms, and then him trying to escape the muscle spasms and just getting more and more frantic. It was literally like watching a horse being attacked by his own body. It was so upsetting to see HIM that upset and obviously terrified.

I moved him to a barn he preferred, but he was always still just a touch wary now and then. It wasnā€™t until I moved him to his current barn that he went full-throttle nuts and I honestly thought he was going to have a heart attack. Thatā€™s when (duh) I finally decided to try some tubes of Ulcergard. Bingo. Two days in he was drastically improved. By the time he finished a whole 28-day treatment, my bank account was hurting but my horse was back to his old self. Happy as a clam. And I realized that heā€™d probably had the ulcers since leaving the farm where his friends were buried and heā€™d grown up. The ulcers probably played a role in the back tension (though saddle fit and need of a better farrier played a role in that as well).

Oh, and my guy was buddy sour during his crazy time at the first farm. Very uncharacteristically so. Now? Pfft. He couldnā€™t care less. His pasture friend (a mare) calls for him pretty consistently when heā€™s off being ridden or whatever and he never answers her. Itā€™s like he doesnā€™t hear her.

Ulcers. Backs. Pain. I think they exacerbate the buddying up because horses feel more vulnerable when theyā€™re in pain, so they look for the comfort of company as herd animals.

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Perhaps rather than asking me to stop being forthright, it may be better to be more open-minded to folks on this forum who have many decades of experience with both horses and people and people and horses together. Oh, and children too. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Back to my original reply, we ALL want the best for both you and your horse. If you choose to take offence and not believe that, thatā€™s your prerogative.

Please also take time to note that even though you are the originator of this thread, not all replies are directed ā€œatā€ you but many are side conversations speaking to the broader subject and not necessarily directly to your particular situation.

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My mare could be naughty on turnout. She knew I had some physical issues and there were days she just boltedā€¦see ya later :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:. I tried a bunch of stuff. Treats, two halters, backing her into the turnout. She was fine 95% of the time but that 5%ā€¦usually spring and fallā€¦she had her own agenda.

I moved her to a different barn a couple years ago. She was better but one dayā€¦I just happened to have the lunge line on her. When she took off (smaller turnout so she couldnā€™t get up a big head of steam) I just braced and held on. That surprised the heck out of her. She hasnā€™t done it since. She just flat had my number. She didnā€™t do it with anybody else.

Hopefully I made my point and she doesnā€™t do it anymore.

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you literally called me delusional in your post that you went back and edited so yeah I think you might want to check your approach. I also have decades of exp with horses and people but this is a new one to me and when I come on to a forum to ask for advice I would think you could make use a bit more tact in how you respondā€¦makes me wonder about your actual ability to communicate with horses/people etc.

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