Horse with no "common sense" - can anything be done?

[lenapesadie]

I’m another person that believes some horses are just more or less sensible than the average equine. If it’s nature or nurture I’m not sure.

Just like any other discipline, there are certain attributes one looks for in a trail riding prospect. Average to better than average good sense is one of them.

On the upside! It’s my opinion that the best thing one can do for the less sensible types is turn them out 24/7. My homebred gelding is not terribly sensible. That escalated into a real problem at some point during the three years he was boarded (and being stalled 16 hours a day). It took about a year back at home for him to regain his baseline of less sensible (as opposed to having a melt down and endangering everyone bc he saw a dog’s tail wagging behind a mounting block 100 feet away).

My pony is a smart and sensible critter. He’s “bad”sometimes but he’s thinking not panicking. When my homebred spooks (always at the dumbest things it seems) and proceeds to run around snorting like a fool, the pony yeets around like woohoo I’m faster than you fat boi. Anyone with eyes in their head can see the homebred is scared and the pony is having fun. The pony escaped his bamboo prison and walked himself to my house three times cool as a cucumber. My homebred had a meltdown the time he escaped his paddock and was loose in the adjacent yard for two minutes and took three days to settle down afterwards.

The pony would likely be a trustworthy trail horse post apocalyptic event. The homebred needs to be managed to hack inside the perimeter fence on a calm still day while the neighbors are all at church.

[Bluey]

We had a five year old feral horse that came in a truck from a roundup that was similar to OP’s horse.
On top of it, the whole world was scary to him, including other horses.
We gentled him fine but every morning he was a bronc again.
We were riding him and it was always a bolt or freeze ride.
He was the only of three dozen feral horses that would-not-give-it-up.

Since after several months we could not make him a school horse, we were lucky a client bought him as his project horse.
He tried for two years and like us, every morning he had to start him again.
He had to leave and the riding center bought him again and and on a whim, the director told us to hitch him and have him bring the morning fresh alfalfa from the field.

We just knew it was going to be a big wreck, we started him driving and soon we were hitching him and driving him all over and yes, bringing the fresh cut alfalfa every morning.
He did that for many years, proudly trotting along big buses and trucks honking and out in the fields, like he was born to it.
You still had to watch him on the ground and was hard to catch for many, but the point of his story was, there is a place for most everyone and we need to think outside the box to find it.
Trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, as OP’s horse seems to be in, may just not work, for everyone.
More to consider.

[Simkie]

While I agree that some horses are just better suited to some tasks than others, problem solving can be taught, and confidence can be built. For a horse that doesn’t have those things innately, it might take awhile. That time and effort might be onerous, and it’s tough to know if they’ll ever be “good enough,” so finding them a place that’s better suited to their base skill set is certainly an option. But they can improve.

[sascha]

But it doesn’t really matter what we “proclaim” about this horse. Ultimately, she doesn’t fit OP’s style and OP doesn’t seem to be a fit for her either.

Selling the horse on to someone who is not going to expect her to problem solve is probably the kindest thing.

[trubandloki]

@sascha

Selling the horse on to someone who is not going to expect her to problem solve is probably the kindest thing.

It might very well be.

I think that is why the question was asked.

The OP is wondering if this horse is the right fit, etc.

It certainly is a fair question.

@sascha

But it doesn’t really matter what we “proclaim” about this horse.

You are right, I just needed to explain that your statement was not 100% true in the real world. Don’t want people thinking that all horses like this are followers in a herd setting. Some are irrational and difficult leaders.

[Demerara_Stables]

Is she food motivated? I know there are a lot of dog “toys” that make them think. We had one with 3 lights that lit up in a certain order, starting with one light, and the dog had to hit the lights in order after they lit up to get the food bowl to open. I think that would be hard to build for a horse (although you are handy!!), but maybe a puzzle each day for her to get her grain? This is the dog toy: https://clever.pet/.

I’m also thinking (and this might help with the trail riding), putting ground rails in a pile that she has to figure her way through to get to a reward (ideally without you around if that’s safe). Do you have somewhere that you can take her to school XC on a line or can you take her out to trails on a line and find some difficult areas for her to get through and see if she’ll try to figure them out? I know you’d have to be there but if you have challenging trails, and you can do it on a line where you’re safe that might teach her confidence.

[sascha]

@trubandloki

Don’t want people thinking that all horses like this are followers in a herd setting. Some are irrational and difficult leaders.

Yup. I don’t think this one is that though, but I could be wrong.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@clanter

POA every step of everything had to be repeatedly worked with, each morning was a new beginning with the basics once again. It was as if each night his brain was turned off and reset to base knowledge, anything learned was erased. It was as though he was autistic

clanter makes a very good point, I was thinking in the same direction. OP, maybe do some reading on autistic children, learning styles, maybe that will give you some ideas? IDK, just throwing it out there. I’ve seen a couple horses like clanter mentions come thru my barn, they were in for training. In that situation it is really frustrating, because the owner wants X and the horse can’t get past A.
Does she offer anything on her own when you’re riding? Any…thing… ??
Some people are very literal, I don’t see why some animals can’t also be.

[lenapesadie]

I find that the Warwick Schiller “connection work” helps my homebred immensely. But I don’t think that type of “work” is suitable for all handlers. There’s a whole lot of standing around “doing nothing” and letting go of any expectations of the horse. And the “gains” are incremental and typically follow utter regression of the horse’s existing training. Some folks have luck using bits and pieces of it to improve small things with a horse, without the “cons” I alluded to, the issue at hand with OP’s horse isn’t a small thing.

It’s like a human with PTSD or some other mental thing. Talk therapy likely helps. But it may take a lifetime.

[GraceLikeRain]

@sascha

Ultimately, she doesn’t fit OP’s style and OP doesn’t seem to be a fit for her either.

That feels like a pretty big leap. The steps taken with even the single example shared demonstrate far more patience and creative thinking than most horse people I know.

To the OP Warwick has some newer stuff that starts off line specifically because he found that some horses respond completely differently to having full choice vs being on a line. It may be worth paying for a month to see the full library and seeing if there are new nuggets on how to keep her in a thinking brain without the hand holding of another horse or physically being attached to a human.

[CBoylen]

No fix. Horses like this you can address each situation, but they don’t learn to apply. They’ll also commonly revert each situation with another handler. Often it’s because of late training, but some horses are just not clever.

[endlessclimb]

Oh no, I’m totally thinking of selling her. That’s not offensive to me at all - not every horse and person are the right match, and it’s common advice on this board. Problem solving ability is nearly impossible to judge in a 3 year old, which is when I bought her and why I’ve stuck it out this far, thinking maybe she was just slow to mature or something. I bought thoroughbred lines known for good brains (AP Indy) and prayed on the rest.

She’s been really easy to bring along under saddle (minus what appears to have been an out-of-shape stifle issue). She tries, she is a good worker. That I have no issue with. It’s her general nature when allowed to choose her reactions that bring me pause - walking on the buckle, loose in the dry lot, etc.

When I brought her to the last farm she was boarded at, I shit you not - she touched the electric fence over 20 times the first day. I stood there and watched in borderline horror. And every week for the 2 years I was there, she touched it at least 5 times more. Now that she’s here, she continues to touch the electric tape - I just had to retension a line she tried to reach through.

It’s things like that.

[endlessclimb]

She even passed all the “curiosity tests” they say to do on a young horse to gauge intelligence. Put something new/scary out and see what they do. Do they avoid or investigate? She investigates every time, arguably with boldness.

[endlessclimb]

She did sort of have late training - she was broke, went to the track, trained, and then had a bout of cellulitis that took them awhile to get back under control. When brought back to the track she wasn’t interested in running anymore. That’s all per the trainer/riders.

[ThreeWishes]

Maybe Shaney is an equine Dory . Curious yet not the sharpest tool in the shed. Or she’s like the lady in “50 first dates”….

[endlessclimb]

Here’s what I think I’m going to do. On an absolute whim I’m going to put her on Regumate and see if anything improves. I’m also going to start the clock for 6 months. If nothing improves by then, she will go to a trainer with the intention to sell.

@ThreeWishes I call her Dory. That’s what it feels like. She’s so so sweet. Just not the sharpest tool in the shed.

[endlessclimb]

I’ve been doing the “challenging things on a line” with her at home. I have a pile of railroad ties, big ass dirt piles, and a super scary tarped thing.

She will do everything - on a line. Turn her out and shes going nowhere NEAR that stuff, even when I sit on it and feed snacks from it. On a line she will eat snacks off the scary tarped thing no problem, marches right up there and snatches it, munches it without backing up, etc. Take her halter off and walk away and it’s like it’s morphed into a horse eating thing and she’s out.

[luvmyhackney]

Honestly Prozac.

You can’t learn when you are always in a state of quiet panic and trust of the environment.

[endlessclimb]

Are you suggesting this as a forever thing? I’d rather sell her into an environment that she would thrive better in (structured but busy show barn type) than medicate her every day for the rest of her life. Eta: apologies if you’re suggesting it as a temporary thing - I’m just not going to drug a horse into living in a way I can tolerate forever. That’s not fair to them, or to me.

[luvmyhackney]

No. Just enough to get her over the hump. Horse I knew was on it for 30 days and while on meds they worked on teaching horse to take a breath and think through. That was enough and horse still had moments in high stress environments, but overall night and day difference.