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How long would you wait before moving your horse to a more challenging environment/job?

About a year and a half ago, I got my current horse. I didn’t have significant riding experience, was coming off 2 years owning an older, been-there-done-that horse, and had only shown with him for one season at local shows in the 2fts. I liked showing, but I could see how it was so much more gratifying for my peers working with younger/greener horses. So when I was horse shopping, my goal was finding a good-minded, younger or less experienced horse that I could invest a lot of time in and develop with my trainer. Like a 4H project for an adult, basically.

This didn’t quite work out for me. My trainer steered me to an imported wb gelding, had been in the US just over 2 years, quietly being networked out of a rated show barn. He wasn’t exactly what I was looking for, but I fell in love with him, he passed the PPE, and the price was (suspiciously) right at a time when even barely restarted OTTBs were going for low 5’s, so I jumped for it. Of course, within days of getting him home it was clear I had bitten off more than I could chew. I handed the reins to my trainer for 30 days, but we only made it through 5 of those before he turned really nasty and explosive. She advised sending him to a western colt starter for a full restart from the ground. Simultaneously, I was hearing through the grapevine that the horse had a reputation, was probably never going to be appropriate for me, and the trainer’s motivations were not altogether above board.

So I left the barn, found a natural horsemanship trainer, and committed to restarting the horse from the ground. Six months later, I had a horse that was if anything worse than before, and a complete disillusionment with the whole rope halter, yacht rope, carrot stick scene. I was at a loss what to do next, didn’t think the horse could ever be rideable, but didn’t know how to go about parting ways with him. Luckily I found a living situation where I could board him at home and do part-time barn management. So I moved him to a small, quiet boarding farm, mostly retirees and a few weekend beginner lessons. I figured at least this way, I wouldn’t be pouring money into training board, so I could bide my time figuring out what to do next. I still religiously kept up with groundwork and had the barn owner/de facto trainer give feedback in an informal lesson every week. But I was pretty much past thinking he could be brought around to riding, at least not for me.

Fast forward several months, I had a different horse. No tension, no freak outs in the round pen. I kind of wanted the trainer to try riding him, but she seemed understandably hesitant given his history. So one day, I decided to do it myself with her as a ground-person. All went surprisingly well. The horse was nothing like his former self under saddle. We’ve built from there, settled into a routine, even started jumping. All in all, it was a much tougher journey than I anticipated (and involved more burned bridges with trainers than I would have liked), but I got my adult 4H experience after all.

My question is what comes next. It would be crazy to move the horse again anytime soon when he’s finally going well. But the current boarding situation has a ceiling on how far we can progress. There are no trails, no trailer available to take “field trips” (and the horse is still a nightmare to load without heavy sedation), and the trainer is effectively a retired hobbyist, fairly hands off, no opportunity for pro rides. I have a year-long lease and also realize that, with winter coming, I’ll have my hands full just trying to maintain the progress we made this summer. But even then, I’m debating if I should engage another pro before then, proactively, to help keep him sane through the winter? Move him someplace with an indoor? Or just continue DIY’ing it until spring and then searching for the right program?

We are coming up on 6 months out of any formal training program, and I think we both needed that time. But at the end of the day, as much as I have learned since getting my “pandemic project horse,” know there’s a cap on what we can accomplish this way. I just also have a lot of uncertainty/doubts about changing our situation, and messing up the delicate equilibrium we’ve reached this summer. Should I put a full year into doing what we are doing? Will he mentally unravel in a professional program? I want to do more with him, certainly get him capable of trailering, and one day showing—I do think it’s in the cards, even if it’s a long road—but I’m just not sure how long that road is, or where the next turn needs to be.

The answer to your questions is…WHY?
Why did the horse have a “reputation” to begin with?
Why did the pro trainers you engaged to work with it make things worse?
Why does it need to be heavily sedated to load?
Why is it going better in the current environment?
Until you observe your horse closely and figure out the answers to these questions, you may want to only have a “been there done that” horse to ride. It is what horses teach and tell us that allows us to unlock the answers and figure out how to have success with them, or realize they are not right for us.

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Oh gosh, Kudos for you for sticking with him and seeing an improvement! Tough horses are not easy and it seems like you have made a major break through. If you are not happy where you are and you feel limited then I would move. This is just MY personal opinion but I feel that change is not a bad thing for horses and if you are happier then you will accomplish even more. The key is to have the RIGHT people involved and be choosey about who that is. Do you know anyone that can help with the trailering challenge? Not sure where you are but I would be happy to help if you are close to Baltimore county, Maryland. In your heart, you will know when he isn’t right for you anymore. I just gave away a OTTB that I spent a fortune on and he wasn’t right for me but he landed in a place where he needed to be and hopefully he will continue to prosper. Sometimes horses are in our lives for a brief time but they teach us a lifetime of knowledge.

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Depends on how actually “professional” the professsional rider/trainer you engage is. Because some “aren’t”, but hang the sign out to attract clients anyway. Good luck with him. Sounds like he likes you.

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A lot of professional trainers aren’t very good and aren’t very interested in ~your~ horse. There I said it and it’s true.

So having said that- teach the horse to load properly slowly and trailer out to some lessons with happy-to-do-low level local trainers who will not pressure either of you to do too much. If one really clicks, then consider a move but do half training and only you ride the horse for now and just take lessons until you are sure. Or if not see if you can find a facility with other amateurs doing their own training and befriend them. Go on some trail rides with friends and tag along to some local shows if you can to hang out (not show). Do not worry about turning your horse over to a pro. He likes you. Continue on your journey together and enlist help as needed.

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There are a lot of “natural horsemanship” trainers that couldn’t navigate their horse out of a paper bag so I’m not shocked that he worsened with a carrot stick.

It sounds as though you and the previous trainer afterwards figured out how to work with this horse and connect. That’s wonderful and I think that is the most important piece of information. With winter coming up and you feeling challenged to keep this progress, I think I would stick with the course and continue to ask the person helping you to assist with eyes on. They don’t have to be doing pro rides to be helpful. Sometimes knowledgeable guidance is enough to help continue steady advancement. Develop your confidence with this horse more and develop that trust. Worst case scenario, you keep doing the right things over and over again. That in itself is progress.

Then, when you have another season of riding and learning with this horse, and you are feeling more confident, it may be totally obvious for you to move and you may be much more comfortable with the decision.

If you aren’t at a place where you can ride through the winter, not sure the amenities, then maybe do consider moving. In theory, the horse should respond in the new environment once settled as they are in the old, as long as the right training continues. He may settle in very quick.

But if you can ride at this current barn and continue to at least get some direction with the person that has helped you progress, then I’d stay there for the time being.

Side note - there may be a co-op near you where you could rent a trailer just to have some sessions where you teach him that a trailer is ok.

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The answer to your questions is…WHY Why did the horse have a “reputation” to begin with? Why did the pro trainers you engaged to work with it make things worse? Why does it need to be heavily sedated to load? Why is it going better in the current environment?

I can’t say anything for sure, but I think he was just mentally fried. I think he went through a late adolescent pushy phase and it coincided with tack fit issues from physically filling out. And even once those issues were addressed, he had a bad attitude and had learned a lot of tricks for parting ways with a rider. I think he has mostly been ridden by pros in his life. Maybe the experience of packing around an adult amateur has raised his confidence. He is in a low-pressure situation, has a good routine, he sees me all the time and does the same thing every day. I wouldn’t necessarily want to send him “away” to a program, I would like to go on doing all his care, but I would like to be able to do more with him. Our current boarding situation is dead quiet, and that’s nice. But it means no one to practice riding in the arena with company, no events calendar for off-property field trips, no truck or trailer to get him over his troubles with loading let alone trailering anywhere. It really is a retirement barn where owners come once in a blue moon to feed carrots to their old horses. He is like a college dropout crashing in a Florida retirement home. I’m happy for him that he’s finally happy, but I want/hope there is a way he can be happy and be challenged more.

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Ideally I guess you would put the money you’d otherwise spend on a couple of years of training board into buying a secondhand truck and trailer, then haul out for lessons and shows and field trips and stuff while keeping him at the less expensive farm where he’s happy.

Assuming that’s not practical, can you look for somewhere that’s a small step up but still not a real show program and try that for the winter? Somewhere that is still more of a backyard place but has a few boarders who ride more consistently and haul out occasionally?

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I would be wary about changing the situation now. This is the time of year where horses change attitudes anyway, as it gets colder and leaves blow. Your summer horse is not necessarily what you’ve actually got. If you move at this time you run the risk of not knowing what caused a difference, the change or the change in season. No hurry anyway right? The horse with a reputation and no loading skills is basically unsaleable, you’re stuck with it for the long term.
What you can do is ask for more things at home. You say you are jumping but I’m not sure exactly what you have asked for, trotting an x or course with changes? Plain schooling jumps or flowers and walls? Is he doing real flatwork or poking around on a loose rein with any pressure? Even if the facility is limited you may not be out of options as far as things that can still be worked on on the scale of learning where his threshold limit lies.

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I agree that now is absolutely not the time to move a horse like this. You have over come the odds; the beginning of this story did not give me much hope for this horse, but it sounds like he is doing great with your current program. Are there any trainers who might be willing to travel to you? I know that is more rare these days, but some people still do it. What about doing video lessons? Or, do you have a good riding friend who might come over occasionally and give him a ride? That will help him get used to new people and will give you the chance to be eyes on the ground to see what else he might need to work on? Then you can re-evaluate in the spring.

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It sounds like you found a good environment for him, where he’s allowed to be a horse and relax. Your own rig would be ideal, and slowly working on that being an normal thing for him.
But Knowing your horse now, better than others, make sure your BS radar is on when talking to potential pros. They should be able to discuss with you theory, alternative approaches, etc. without their egos getting in the way. Some may have a take-it-or-leave-it approach, but it’s safe to assume that won’t be your person. Really listen to what they are saying or are not saying. Silence and omission hold many key things.
There are no guarantees with riding or training, so no one can say for certain what’s best for you or what will or won’t happen. You do the best you can. Good luck!

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What about keeping your horse where he feels confident and is progressing and seeking out a barn with some lesson horses where you can improve your skills and confidence? You found something that works with a challenging horse, I wouldn’t change that. If you could get some more saddle time and work on some more challenging things for you that might help you feel more up to the task

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What about keeping your horse where he feels confident and is progressing and seeking out a barn with some lesson horses where you can improve your skills and confidence? You found something that works with a challenging horse, I wouldn’t change that. If you could get some more saddle time and work on some more challenging things for you that might help you feel more up to the task

Honestly, I would like that just for the social component! Since getting this horse and dealing with everything that came up after, I ended up drifting away from most of my horse world friends. (Funny reading the thread about the “naive friend” and her unsuitable horse because I’m sure I have been some version of that to all my friends). Of course it’s not just that I was annoying and ignored a lot of well-intentioned advice about throwing in the towel, it’s also that I moved barns and don’t show or go to hunter paces anymore. It would be nice to take group lessons somewhere and feel part of a community again!

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Very good advice so far, I totally think he should stay here for the winter.

One thing about even very good coaches and trainers is they get between you and the horse. If it’s a normal horse and they are giving you tips on aids then that works well. Or for beginners.

If you have a problem or troubled or quirky horse, this can really back fire. Lessons force you to over ride your own intuition. You will feel the problem brewing before the coach can see it. The coach will for instance give you normal instructions like “he’s giving you a poopy trot, put your leg on” but you know that if you do that horse will start to bronc because you can feel his back is tight. Etc.

So you need to stay at this barn and work on schooling this horse on your own until you are in a mental place where you feel like YOU are his trainer and other coaches are just eyes on the ground to give educated feedback. Rather than feeling in your heart that nothing “counts” unless you are in a training program at a show barn.

You are perfectly capable of schooling and perfecting everything you did on your former horse and that this horse was previously taught. You can work on perfecting halt walk trot canter transitions. You can trot and canter poles, you can work on lengthening and adjusting stride between poles. You can do small jumps and gymnastic lines with eyes on the ground. You can do lead changes. You can do lateral work.

In dressage we work on all these things every day outside of lessons (well not jumping). You might find some basic dressage useful, also those books on 101 exercises with ground poles.

You are more than capable of perfecting his flat and ground pole work yourself.

You need this time because your backstory shows you have been over dependent on coaches, unable to see when they are destroying your horse, and expecting them to fix your horse.

You need to become your own trainer of this horse, and then you will have the confidence to pick a coach that helps you and the wisdom to avoid those that can’t.

Taking lessons on a school horse and then translating that to problem horse could be really useful.

As far as your ego being hurt by not showing, just let that go. You are on a longer more interesting path to becoming a real horse woman and not just an ammie in a program. And this will take you in a different direction. Embrace it. By the end of the process you may not want to be in a program.

As far as social life, lessons or if you were real friends with your old barn buddies go out for brunch with them. But if horses in a program and shows were your only connection then you may find your horse language will change and you no longer have much in common.

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If I could like @Scribbler 's post more than once I would.
Like X10 :+1:

All I can add is:
If financially possible, get yourself a trailer & vehicle to haul it.
Or find a friend with both you can use to help with loading training.
Of course, if horse’s issues loading may cause damage, don’t.
My current tow vehicle is a Ford Explorer - 3.5L, 6cyl.
I’ve had trucks (F250 V10) & SUVs & find both able to comfortably haul my 16’ stock trailer - loaded with 16h horse or mini & cart.
Both for local short hauls of 1h or less as well as annual 3+h trip.

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We board in a small self care barn and my horses are so happy there. I bought a safe, used, truck and lightweight but solid 2 horse bumper pull and suddenly my daughter and I were free to try lessons with different trainers, trailer ourselves to shows and arrange to work with a trainer there, etc. We also met someone locally (who runs the 4h, coincidentally) who has, very generously, come to our barn a few times to help my daughter work through some things at home. Nothing big, but sometimes you feel stuck and just need fresh eyes to look and maybe get on and feel what’s happening.

My $.02, if you can set yoursefl up to be independent with truck and trailer, keep him in his happy home base and be a bit of a free agent in terms of training, clinics, lessons, showing.

(Also, having your own trailer has the obvious benefit of being able to teach him to load nicely. Sometimes go for a little ride and back home, sometimes feed him or groom him in the trailer, etc so it becomes a happy place. Our young mare gets a flake of alfalfa in her trailer net and loads willingly for the treat.)

ETA I tow with a 2012 F150 that has a tow capacity of 9,500 lbs. Trailer with DR is 3300, horse is 850 (little reiner). Got a bomber WD hitch to be ultra cautious, and am quite happy with the set up. If I had the $$, or if I upgrade in future, I’ll look for a 250 truck, but I have no regrets.

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I tow with the same setup, 2012 F150, aluminum BP with dressing room, and a weight distribution hitch. I wouldn’t want to haul two big horses (mine is 1100, could maybe do a pony as well), but for one horse it’s great! And we got both used for reasonable prices. The freedom and ability to train to be a good loader is really worth it. I’ve not found a training barn or boarding in a program to be able to keep the type of horse OP describes happy - and I’ve boarded in the whole spectrum of barns.

If I were OP, I’d be staying put, taking the winter off to relax and just do groundwork/groom if necessary, and shop for a rig. Investigate trainers that travel or would allow hauling in. Take some lessons on school horses for yourself and some social time!

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OP kudos for you working through this. Other thoughts on this
The diet at new place may agree with him. I had a very athletic horse that could not tolerate alfalfa. I didn’t use concentrates, just top quality Tim +/- grass and ration balancer.
Time off from pressure could have allowed painful area to heal. Ulcers , bad back, ill fitting saddle or bit, and psychological pressure all possible
Don’t rush to change. Personally I would consider a Dressage or 3day trainer that can come to you and start progressing up to see if you can progress or find a trigger point where he says NO

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In this situation I would only change one thing at a time. Moving him to a new boarding facility, a new training program, new diet, and a new instructor… You’re asking for trouble.

Beg borrow or steal transportation. Wave enough money under somebody’s nose to get them to come over to teach you. Something. Get the ball rolling where you are.

You are in a fragile positive spiral. If I were you I would do everything to keep it that way. Especially with the type of horse you have, making a commitment by moving to a new boarding facility and a new trainer is a big deal. He might not be a good match And you won’t know until you’re there. I think you’ll need to be very circumspect and careful, and try a couple different trainers possibly before you find just the right one. And make it clear from the get-go what the situation is.

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Might also be a good way to shop for an eventual trainer while continuing on your path. And make some good many friends that have trailers or could just be a good sounding board/shoulder to cry on :slight_smile:

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