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How much is your endurance horse worth...now?

Endurance and Trail Riding
#101

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5407709]
I really don’t agree with this. I agree that any horse of any breed who is sound and likes to “go down the road” can DO endurance, but excel? No.

That’s like saying any TB can excel at racing or any QH can excel at reining or cutting. They can’t.
a)…to “excel” is simply not that easy.[/QUOTE]

I guess my use of the word “excel” and yours are different. I was just meaning that a horse of any other breed can be capable of doing endurance rides and finishing well. Since not all people can do the AERC rides I was meaning endurance in a broader sense to include all rides, and not just professionals and bigger names who do AERC…

#102

[QUOTE=candyappy;5415157]
I guess my use of the word “excel” and yours are different. I was just meaning that a horse of any other breed can be capable of doing endurance rides and finishing well. Since not all people can do the AERC rides I was meaning endurance in a broader sense to include all rides, and not just professionals and bigger names who do AERC…[/QUOTE]
If you say “endurance” you mean the sport. It doesn’t mean every trail ride that is over 5 feet from the stable door. Just as if you say “eventing” you mean the sport, not just running around the countryside jumping fences willy nilly. So there is no “broader sense” when you say endurance. You either do the sport, or you trail ride.

The AERC is the governing body that runs the sport and oversees the rides and rule book – so when you ride endurance, you are riding AERC. Endurance is a sport open to all breeds and ALL riders in the US. There are no divisions for pro or ammy, novice or experienced. They all ride the same competition together in their respective mileage race, and compete for the same placing. Only FEI is different with its own set of rules. Those rides are very expensive and exclusive. However, you can ride both AERC and FEI together if the ride is also AERC sanctioned

To be capable of traveling 50 miles in one day calls for a light horse as the heavy ones cannot do the job, NOR should they ever be asked to do it. The horses in endurance that “finish well” average in about the 99 percentile of pure to 1/2 Arabian blood. The lonely 1% that is not full or half Arab usually has a dash of Arabian in it. So, to do well and have at least a chance of placing high one should be partnered with a horse that has no less than 1/2 Arabian blood. It is as simple as that.

#103

Again – coming from a home where both parents were writers, I was taught that words don’t mean what WE want them to mean – they mean what they mean.

EXCEL:to surpass others or be superior in some respect or area; to outdo.

And the fact is, as gothedistance states, there are other breeds in endurance, as it is a sport open to all. But she is right that 95% (or more) of the horses who EXCEL are at least 50% Arabs. This is not someone’s opinion – it is a fact. You can look at the stats which AERC has keep for years and years. That certainly doesn’t mean ALL Arabs can excel, but a sound, fit, well-conditioned, well-ridden Arab or half-Arab has a far better chance to excel in the sport than any other breed.

#104

Wasn’t it Yogi Berra who once declared, “90% of this game is half mental”?

:lol:

#105

I am curious, do you see many TWH in endurance?

#106

Yeah, if your sport involves swinging a bat for 1 second while standing still, and running a couple of yards from one square base to another, then sitting on a bench for hours at a time. Of course it is 90% half mental – 90% of the time you’re standing around twiddling your thumbs waiting for something to happen.

<I was a baseball mom. I should know>

One wonders what Yogi Berra would have said after almost non-stop jogging 50 miles in 7 hours with that bat in his hand. :smiley:

#107

No.

If they are there, they are in the far back and you don’t see them unless you are in the rear yourself.

#108

[QUOTE=Rodeio;5420537]
I am curious, do you see many TWH in endurance?[/QUOTE]

Well, on this I will disagree with gothedistance…a year or so ago the Endurance News (official publication of the AERC) had an article on gaited horses in endurance and interviewed quite afew riders.

A gaited horse can most definitely do endurance. But they are not likely to “excel”.

Again, I believe that almost ANY sound, fit, well-ridden horse who likes “going down the road” can finish a 50 miler in most cases. But if you want to place – say, in the Top 3rd – get an Arab or Arab x.

#109

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5419688]
Again – coming from a home where both parents were writers, I was taught that words don’t mean what WE want them to mean – they mean what they mean.

EXCEL:to surpass others or be superior in some respect or area; to outdo.

And the fact is, as gothedistance states, there are other breeds in endurance, as it is a sport open to all. But she is right that 95% (or more) of the horses who EXCEL are at least 50% Arabs. This is not someone’s opinion – it is a fact. You can look at the stats which AERC has keep for years and years. That certainly doesn’t mean ALL Arabs can excel, but a sound, fit, well-conditioned, well-ridden Arab or half-Arab has a far better chance to excel in the sport than any other breed.[/QUOTE]

For the record I meant endurance as endurance riding. Not just going down the road on a trail ride. As I stated before I was meaning all endurance rides ( example 25 miles or more) not just ones by the AERC ( or their records) . Excuse me if my use of the word “excel” offended you as I intended it. It may be just a small 5% ( or less) but that means that not all rides have been won by arabs and arab crosses since the sport began. Which means that horses of other breeding have excelled in the sport.

#110

[QUOTE=candyappy;5421858]
For the record I meant endurance as endurance riding. Not just going down the road on a trail ride. As I stated before I was meaning all endurance rides ( example 25 miles or more) not just ones by the AERC ( or their records) . Excuse me if my use of the word “excel” offended you as I intended it. It may be just a small 5% ( or less) but that means that not all rides have been won by arabs and arab crosses since the sport began. Which means that horses of other breeding have excelled in the sport.[/QUOTE]

I certainly wasn’t offended – it’s just when you use a word it has meaning and it’s not really up to us to decide what that meaning is. That’s what Webster’s is for;)

As far as “all endurance rides” – if you are in the USA then when you define “endurance” as a sport it is as gothedistance says: “Endurance” is defined as AERC sanctioned rides of over 25 miles. Period. Nothing else is “endurance”. So I really don’t know what “other” rides you are talking about. Can you give an example?

Now, if you are talking competitive trail, that in a whole 'nother sport, which different rules, different governing bodies, etc. But competitive trail is NOT endurance. The sports are quite different.

#111

So are ALL rides in the US of 25 miles or more AREC rides??? It doesn’t alter the fact of the post above that a paltry 5% ( but 5% none the less) are non arabs and therefore even if it was one horse it did excel.

#112

Kyzteke - Rodeio asked if one sees many TWH in endurance. I answered no…because in the years I’ve been doing endurance, I think I’ve only seen one! I’ve seen RMH, Pasos, gaited 1/2 breds - but they are all in the extreme minority, and they all tend to hang at the back. Rodeio didn’t ask if they excelled at the sport, so I didn’t volunteer an answer to that non-query.

Candyappy - yes, ALL endurance rides in the US (except those run by the FEI) are under the governance of the AERC. AERC offers Limited Distance (rides 35 miles or less), and endurance (one day rides 50 miles to 100 miles in length). Limited Distance and Endurance have similar rules with a few exceptions.

The FEI also offers FEI endurance. FEI rides are generally only 100 mile rides, although some are now starting to offer 50 mile rides to qualify riders for higher levels. FEI rides are designed to help qualify horses and riders for the international endurance scene. For 2011 there are 9 FEI rides listed in the US. Compare that with several hundred AERC rides for 2011 - these being just the early sanctions which will increase X3-4 by the time summer rolls around.

In the US there are relatively few FEI rides compared to AERC rides simply because AERC was here long before FEI, is our official governing body, and offers a large open door policy for ride types, distances, awards, vetting procedure, etc. The vast majority (99%) of endurance riders in the US do not want to compete internationally, are not FEI members, and find more freedom and choice in an abundant offering of AERC rides. Same goes with endurance ride managers - they have far more freedom under AERC in choosing trails, ridecamps, distances, amenities, vetting procedures, number of holds, even parking options.

An FEI ride can also be AERC sanctioned if the ride wants to bring in more income (AERC sanctioning=more riders) and if they want to allow riders to accumulate AERC points and miles. However, FEI has some rules different than AERC - they impose certain conditions on FEI riders, the trail, finish criteria, times to present, even down to rules on where competitors may park (separate area and closest to vet check) that AERC does not. These stricter conditions often are a headache for the Ride Management.

If anyone is interested, the AERC website has statistical information on the breeds that have been recorded in AERC Limited Distance and endurance rides over the decades. Quite fun to browse through and see what breeds have been out there on the trail.

#113

candyappy – we are talking about semantics here and I hate to sound like a lawyer, but just because 1-5% of the horses who “excel” in endurance are NOT Arabs or an Arab x, is not the same thing as saying “a horse of any breed can (& does) excel in endurance if it has the right conformation, personality and rider to bring it along.”

This is the point gothedistance & I are trying to make.

Plenty of Arabs do NOT excel at the sport as it is. But if you start getting into other breeds, the chance of having a successful mount who EXCELS at the sport drops to slightly more likely then me winning the lottery.

Prudence, who posts here, rode her WB gelding in a number of endurance rides, including a stab at Tevis. He performed WAY better than I would have ever thought for his breed (and type). But even she admitted that he had to be ridden very carefully just to finish and wasn’t like to be in Top 10.

Again, go to the AERC website and check on the part that says “awards & standings” (or something like that). It has the rider, the region and what award they won for the last 15-20 yrs. They also name the breed. You will see what we are talking about.

My only beef with AERC is that if the horse is a Teke/Arab or Appie/Arab or something like that they ALWAYS list it as “Arab x”…like the other half doesn’t even matter…:mad:

#114

Say, Kyzteke - you can have the AERC register a dual registry horse (pony) if you provide papers from those respective breed registries. I was the first one to register a Welsh/Arabian - but was told I had to provide both sets of papers - the WPCSA half-Welsh papers, and the 1/2 Arabian papers from the AHA. I did…and they added that Welsh/Arab category to the AERC database. :slight_smile:

#115

Riding a 17 hand heavy-bodied Hanoverian actually wasn’t too difficult. We finished 18 50 milers and did lots of LD miles. We usually finished mid-pack or a little higher. What was important was using lots of water on his skin and insides since we live out west, and sometimes getting past a vet that thought he looked “tired” (not a silly Arab) or was worried about inversion (he “panted” to assist in cooling which I encouraged). I don’t ever remember having to hold at the gate because he hadn’t pulsed down and he just got stronger going up hills. I started doing endurance with him when he was 20.

What endurance has been to me is a fantastic way to have fun with my horse, and I happened to have a Hanoverian as my horse at the time my daughter wanted to try the sport with her Appy. Right now, I ride a NSH - more traditional for sure, and easier in some ways although he doesn’t pulse down as well as my old Hanoverian. Don’t be surprised if you see me riding a Hano down the trail again since I am gaga over the breed! If you care about winning, you should probably get an Arab who likes to go. Otherwise, just ride a horse you love to ride who enjoys the trail, is well-trained and sound, and have fun. Arabs are fun, and also small and often cheap so those are other pluses to the breed for many people.

#116

What a great quote! :slight_smile: We should all live by these words - in all equine sports.

#117

Interesting…my Teke/Arab crosses are all registered with AHA as their sole registry simply to save $. So when you get your AERC# for your horse, does the owner/rider state the breed or does AERC just ask for the papers and if it’s registered with AHA automatically call it an “Arab x”?

#118

When I applied for my AERC# for my Welsh/Arab I called the office because I didn’t see a category for Welsh/Arab. The office told me to send copies of both papers to prove his breeding. I did, and they created the category.

You have to have valid papers in both registries if you want the AERC to create a new category in their database to correctly reflects the complete breeding.

I have no clue what AERC’s methodology is for deciding how to categorize part-breds. You might want to call them and ask…then come back here and let us know. :slight_smile:

#119

[QUOTE=Rodeio;5420537]
I am curious, do you see many TWH in endurance?[/QUOTE]

Rodeio- I am in the Northwest and we see LOTS of TWH horses in both LD and Endurance rides around here. There is a huge gaited horse group (I won’t say the name of their club <giggle>) and their horses do quite well in both distances. By well I mean they consistently finish in 50’s, but usually not top ten. The horses that are raced to top ten finishes usually look like crap at the end, but to each his own. I personally don’t care for gaited horses but I think this group has done well promoting and successfully managing a non-traditional breed in endurance.

#120

Maybe that’s why I gave the answer I did – I live in the PNW as well and I know (of) a number of LD and endurance riders who ride gaited, many of the TWH. I don’t follow their success rate, since I’m also not a big fan of gaited horses, but I know they are out there.

But Eddy’s Mom – even if the winner “looks like crap”, if he/she pulses down in time and passes the vet check, he/she is obviously NOT in distress in any way, shape or form. THat’s what the vet check is for…

And BC award, which has to be given to a horse finishing in the Top 10: the recipient is NOT just the horse who finishes, but the one who is “fit to continue.” So I doubt they look like crap.

Again, we have to remember that the horse who Top 10’s is exerting a whole lot more energy and effort then the one who just finishes…winning takes some effort, which is as it should be. If it was easy, we’d all be winning Tevis :smiley:

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