[QUOTE=yellowbritches;8865016]
Ummm…I worked professionally in eventing, and have competed more or less exclusively in eventing for over a decade, with a few exceptions, and even I know what is considered appropriate in the hunters.[/QUOTE]
I think her point is that even someone who does not go to hunter shows but hangs out on a forum and around other horses knows what is appropriate at a hunter show.
[QUOTE=Calvincrowe;8864812]
Honestly, some of you are getting a bit “butt hurt” over a person asking questions about a schooling show. The OP is listening, and taking your advice (and my own) as much as she’s willing to. We don’t know where she’s from or where the show is, but seriously-- she isn’t going to stand out as much as you seem to think, and flat classes at a schooling show are a catchall for lots of folks warming up. This isn’t WEF or an AA show. Easy there, posters. No need to go on the attack. The OP isn’t really being snarky or trolling. The cure for ignorance is education, kindly administered.[/QUOTE]
Post 37 and 38 regarding standing martingales was the source of mine.
And not butthurt- it does make my head hurt. OP came on for advice. No problem. But then has to launch into the horridness of standing martingales blah blah.
For the record- though I knew what it was- I did go the the urban dictionary to verify butt hurt and ensure I was not- butt hurt. Sigh, its a slow sick day for me. where’s my Nyquil…
[QUOTE=trubandloki;8865052]
I think her point is that even someone who does not go to hunter shows but hangs out on a forum and around other horses knows what is appropriate at a hunter show.[/QUOTE]
I totally misread her post!! My bad, yellowbritches!!
I bet OP is foreign, they tend to think standing martingales are the devil’s work and have no idea about hunters. It is a cultural thing.
Actually, standing martingales and tie downs are the exact same thing with one name for english people and one for western. While some english people do indeed use them to tie a horse’s head down (like nobody on here has ever complained about too tight martingales?) not all western people use it to tie a horse’s head down.
I do think that more western people falsely believe it can be used to give the horse something to brace against when he is turning and burning.
Probably just as much as some english people think you can crank the horse’s head down and a judge isn’t going to notice it’s so tight you can play the violin on it.
A properly adjusted tie down and/or standing martingale serves a purpose.
I would personally try to blend in at whatever show I’m going to, and ask ahead of time how much of a schooling show this schooling show will be. At small local yocal schooling shows you aren’t going to get placed entering a flat class in a gag but nobody is going to ring you out.
I took my green mare to an open show (unrecognized schooling style) and showed her in a flat class and we ended up with 14 horses in the class!
My friend showed in the Doris Day class and had 19 horses in the class with english tack, western pleasure, working western, gaited, and saddleseat horses. It was a freaking miracle nobody died and great fun.
^ Ok, I’ll bite. What’s a Doris Day class? Blondes only?
[QUOTE=MHM;8865268]
^ Ok, I’ll bite. What’s a Doris Day class? Blondes only?[/QUOTE]
A little series in PA used to do a “Jack Benny” class for people 39 and up. Maybe one of those.
[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8865057]
Sigh, its a slow sick day for me. where’s my Nyquil…[/QUOTE]
Here, have some of mine! (SNIFF/COUGH/HACK)
Based on what I saw back when I rode on the APHA circuit (in a mixed Western/English barn) a tiedown and standing martingale are SIMILAR but not the same.
The major difference is that a standing martingale has BOTH the piece that goes from the noseband to the girth and the piece that goes around the neck. A tiedown is just the piece from the noseband to the girth.
It is supposed to be run through a breastplate or clipped to a breastplate, but the tiedown itself (which I subsequently saw being used sans breastplace) is JUST the noseband to girth piece. And a martingale is fixed in the center with a doughnut. A tiedown is either clipped to the breatsplate or run through a hole in the middle. Generally tie downs clipped onto a ring on the noseband, rather than having a leather piece that sides around the noseband. They also generally clipped to the girth/cinch or breastplace rather than sliding around the girth on a leather loop.
They also didn’t have the doughnut in the middle that a standing martingle has, which does affect the action. That little doughnut helps you adjust the martingale to a certain length and have it stay adjusted that way. Where the tiedown goes under the breastplate, it can slide and change as you ride.
Some tiedowns don’t clip to the girth between the leg. They clip high on the breastplate, closer to the horse’s head. Those give a lot less “play” than a standing martingale generally does.
You are more likely to see metal/non-leather parts on a tiedown. Martingales are pretty much all leather aside from the buckle. You are also more likely to see a tiedown on the type of caveson where we wouldn’t use a standing martingale (i.e. a war bridle or hackamore or thin rope noseband).
Both adjusted very tight can restrict the horse’s ability to move his head/neck. Both adjusted properly should just prevent the horse from flinging his head high into the rider. But although they are similar in terms of use/method of action, they’re not the same.
And, for the record, there are tiedowns that are a lot like running or german martingales.
[QUOTE=ybiaw;8865060]
I totally misread her post!! My bad, yellowbritches!![/QUOTE]
I should have trimmed the post of yours I quoted for clarity! 
[QUOTE=yellowbritches;8865980]
I should have trimmed the post of yours I quoted for clarity! :)[/QUOTE]
No, I just should have spent a little more time at the Derek Zoolander Center for Kids Who Can’t Read Good. :lol:
Jack Benny and Doris day classes are for people 39 and up and are anything goes classes. I’ve only seen them at open shows where I take my green horses to expose them to All The Things.
If you adjust a standing martingale correctly ( with the horse standing with his head in a natural position, you can pull the martingale up to touch the throatlatch), you have hardly “tied his face to his chest”. You have, however, reduced his ability to break your nose.
Sorry if thinking it’s crazy to tie your horse’s head to its chest while jumping but make it illegal on the flat is considered “disparaging hunter tack”. I came here to learn more about it so as to blend in better. PS - They don’t have an equitation flat class or dressage anything at this show.
You do not use a martingale on the flat to show that your horse has the manners and level of “broke-ness” that is desired in hunters.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8865072]
I bet OP is foreign, they tend to think standing martingales are the devil’s work and have no idea about hunters. It is a cultural thing.[/QUOTE]
Dont think so judging from her posts from last spring and pictures of her saddle and saddle pad with same screen name clearly embroidered on it. On a (nice enough) horse with it’s reins looped under the leathers…sorry, couldn’t resist that. I lunge that way sometimes, with a line attached though, but given the upthread remarks about standing martingale it very much surprised me to see it.
I find it odd that anyone would declare themselves a jumper but have apparently never seen a hunter before? I mean, these two things exist in the same world so you should have a general idea of what’s out there, right?
Not necessarily to the OP but for anyone who pulls this thread up for reference in the future, my take home advice would be this:
When I first started re-riding I didn’t buy anything (except saddle pads) that wasn’t conservative and traditional enough to use for schooling, showing, clinics, lessons, etc. I had a green horse that I didn’t know what he wanted to do with his life and I didn’t have a lot of extra money so when I bought a jacket, I bought navy blue, when I bought breeches, they were always tan, etc. That way I could do a clinic, take a jumping lesson, ride in a dressage show, and always fit in, or at least show a traditional picture to the judge without having to purchase anything.
The good news is that this kind of ‘boring’ tack and apparel is easy to find used and only very slowly goes out of style.
Now that I have more ‘horse budget’ (or more money allocated to it anyway, lol), I do buy stuff specifically for schooling, or for specific things I want to do (like an elastic breast collar for schooling cross country or white breeches for dressage tests). But even then, I am really cautious about buying something I rrreeeallllyyy want if it’s highly fashionable and not very practical (like that darn Horseware Berry jacket!!)
I am a 34 year old woman who rides a 13.3h POA, the least I can do when I show up to a class is have the right tack and apparel on 
It was much easier to blend in on my bay thoroughbred! A dressage clinician made kind of a confused compliment about having the right tack on my horse… I think a bit confused I showed up on a little spotted pony wearing a Custom dressage saddle It’s much better to be “well the adult on the pony appears to at least kind of know what’s expected here” than “what is SHE wearing?!”
[QUOTE=IlexOpaca;8863661]
Sure!
He’s a greenie and rather high strung, and this is going to be his first show. Were entering in at least 2 jumper classes and the one adult open w/t/c hunter class. I want to make it easy for him to succeed and a positive show experience for him. A flat class seemed like a good idea. The whole nature is different - much calmer, more than 1 rider in the arena at a time, etc. It’s one of the first classes of the day, so a good place to start on. In general a nice flat class is something I want him to be exposed to, even though I have zero interest in hunters. I actually didn’t even realize it was a hunter class when I decided to take it (wasn’t really thinking - now I realize of course it is).
Additionally - when I first got him, his trot was awful, his canter was uncontrollable, flat, and insanely fast and tilting, and he carried his head well behind the vertical even on no contact. I’ve now trained him up and gotten him to the point of a proper head carriage either on or just above the vertical, a great frame with him using his bum, a nice adjustable trot, and a good, collected canter with a flying lead change (though I’m assuming they won’t ask for a flying change in the class-). I’m rather happy with it and would enjoy the chance to show that off, if only to my fam/friends, at a lil schooling show.
So, basically, just because I want to. Variety is good![/QUOTE]
Please read the class specs on this Adult w/t/c class/division- is this an adult class or division - if it’s some low level adult class (jump height i…e cross rails, 18’-2’ will be an indicator of the rider level) you might want to reconsider entering your green horse at his first show with potentially an uncontrollable canter in a flat class with a bunch of inexperience adult riders. Please be cognizant of the class descriptions. Is there a baby green or green hunter U/S class, if so that’s the flat class where your horse should be. I say this for safety and fairness to the other riders. If it’s a regular Adult Hunter class where the jumps are 2’6" + then fine.
Just to add (as an announcer), if your horse starts to look out of control you will also be asked to go into the middle of the ring, during the class. Safety of horses and riders comes first and if your horse is that young and green and looses it, a good rider would pull in before a good show pulls you in!
Like others have said, read the class specs carefully and make sure you really should enter this class in the first place!
Ok guys, lets not attack the OP.
First off, vxf111 kind of incited it with OP. That first post was on the attack. Not too many good ways that can go after that…
And OP is allowed to ride in any class she wants to. Even that hunter class that you paid ‘good money’ for. OP didn’t get in that class for free! :lol: If you really get that pissed off by other competitors, maybe you should just keep looking down at your horses’ own two ears and not anyone else. Lets not act like that cliche of the catty, vicious hunter people, ok?
But OP, your horse isn’t going to drown in a puddle from a standing martingale. Many people ride in them every day and they really don’t restrict the head very much at all. However, hunters don’t use them because we are afraid of being smacked in the head. Lets not kid ourselves here :winkgrin:
And OP is correct in some ways. You aren’t going to see a standing on a fox hunter, which is what our discipline is based off of. And I personally have witnessed two accidents directly caused by a standing martingale. They can be dangerous, just as many types of tack can be. Stirrups can kill.
Now telling someone asking about hunter rules that martingales are prohibited in hunter under saddle classes is incitement?! That’s rich. Cuz that’s the content of my first post.
Please note who starts disparaging another discipline on this thread. It ain’t me. OP calls a discipline she apparently doesn’t understand well “crazy.” She brings the attitude. She’s martingale bashing and sneering at the hunters. Go back and re read the thread!
[QUOTE=vxf111;8867348]
Now telling someone asking about hunter rules that martingales are prohibited in hunter under saddle classes is incitement?! That’s rich. Cuz that’s the content of my first post.
Please note who starts disparaging another discipline on this thread. It ain’t me. OP calls a discipline she apparently doesn’t understand well “crazy.” She brings the attitude. She’s martingale bashing and sneering at the hunters. Go back and re read the thread![/QUOTE]
The OP said
Wow, that’s crazy! I can’t imagine jumping in a standing martingale.
That isn’t calling hunters crazy. Thats like saying ‘wow, i didn’t know that!’ Not ‘Everyone who does hunters is insane’
Then you posted this
You’ve listed head to toe unconventional tack… and then disparage hunter tack. I suspect those standing martingales do a lot less than your figure eight, gag bit, etc. Hunters usually can get it done with way less bridle. Different strokes for different folks.
If you don’t like hunter norms, there are other ways to get in the ring with other horses. Dressage suitability classes, for example. An equitation flat class. Schooling. If you’re insistent on not doing what is done… why bother?!
That is pretty much just asking for an argument. It would have been weird if OP didn’t get angry over that. It was inciteful. Theres no reason to jump down OPs throat
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