Hunter Class - is this tack illegal or unconventional?

[vxf111]

Post #1, OP says she’s going to a hunter show and doing an under saddle, can she use/wear a long list of non-traditional/prohibited equipment and clothing.
She’s given polite advice by numerous people.
Post #26, OP says her main concern is legality and that she doesn’t know much about hunters.
Post #27, the OP who JUST SAID SHE DIDN’T KNOW MUCH ABOUT HUNTERS says she sees standing martingales all the time, surely they are legal

Remember, this is someone who told us she’s JUST doing an hunter undersaddle, not hunter over fences

Post #29 my first post I explain that a SM is allowed in hunters o/f but not under saddle

PLEASE TELL ME HOW THAT’S INCITING?! Please.

Post #31, OP’s response <<Wow, that’s crazy! I can’t imagine jumping in a standing martingale>>
Mere moments after admitting she doesn’t know much about the hunters, she’s prepared to call it crazy. Nevermind that she’s a jumper and JUMPERS jump in standing martingales (a fact apparently OP missed)

Post #33, I tell her that hunters DO jump in standing martingales. And don’t use gag bits. And that if she wants to fit in she will try to be conservative. And I mention other ways to get a green horse out in company other than a hunter undersaddle class.

Cue insults from the OP, calling people “butt hurt” (I love that, nothing says “mature” than using “butt hurt” as an adjective), railing on how standing martingales are tiedowns (they’re not. And remember this is from someone who didn’t even notice that her own discipline uses them), and generally disparaging hunters/disciplines other than her own.

Yeah, I was so INCITEFUL on this thread.

[StormyDay]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8867752]
Post #1, OP says she’s going to a hunter show and doing an under saddle, can she use/wear a long list of non-traditional/prohibited equipment and clothing.
She’s given polite advice by numerous people.
Post #26, OP says her main concern is legality and that she doesn’t know much about hunters.
Post #27, the OP who JUST SAID SHE DIDN’T KNOW MUCH ABOUT HUNTERS says she sees standing martingales all the time, surely they are legal

Remember, this is someone who told us she’s JUST doing an hunter undersaddle, not hunter over fences

Post #29 my first post I explain that a SM is allowed in hunters o/f but not under saddle

PLEASE TELL ME HOW THAT’S INCITING?! Please.

Post #31, OP’s response <<Wow, that’s crazy! I can’t imagine jumping in a standing martingale>>
Mere moments after admitting she doesn’t know much about the hunters, she’s prepared to call it crazy. Nevermind that she’s a jumper and JUMPERS jump in standing martingales (a fact apparently OP missed)

Post #33, I tell her that hunters DO jump in standing martingales. And don’t use gag bits. And that if she wants to fit in she will try to be conservative. And I mention other ways to get a green horse out in company other than a hunter undersaddle class.

Cue insults from the OP, calling people “butt hurt” (I love that, nothing says “mature” than using “butt hurt” as an adjective), railing on how standing martingales are tiedowns (they’re not. And remember this is from someone who didn’t even notice that her own discipline uses them), and generally disparaging hunters/disciplines other than her own.

Yeah, I was so INCITEFUL on this thread.[/QUOTE]

OP isn’t calling hunters crazy in post 31. She is clearly saying it as ‘wow, I didn’t know that!’ Not ‘Hunters is horrible, crazy sport no one should ever partake in’
Now, OP obviously doesn’t know much about hunters. She has admitted that. But attacking her isn’t the way we should act when someone wants to try our sport! English horse disciplines, especially ones like hunters, which can be hard to understand, already struggle with getting people to join. Lets try to not act like the vicious hunter people cliche, it turns people off and drives people away, and there is no reason to do it. I love this sport, and hate to see it dragged through the gutter. When you talk to people in other disciplines, the majority have negative connotations with hunters. Lets not propagate that.

[Inclined]

Just to clarify, according to previous threads in the hunting forum, there are quite a few COTH members who use a standing martingale while hunting.

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=StormyDay;8867945]
OP isn’t calling hunters crazy in post 31. She is clearly saying it as ‘wow, I didn’t know that!’ Not ‘Hunters is horrible, crazy sport no one should ever partake in’
Now, OP obviously doesn’t know much about hunters. She has admitted that. But attacking her isn’t the way we should act when someone wants to try our sport! English horse disciplines, especially ones like hunters, which can be hard to understand, already struggle with getting people to join. Lets try to not act like the vicious hunter people cliche, it turns people off and drives people away, and there is no reason to do it. I love this sport, and hate to see it dragged through the gutter. When you talk to people in other disciplines, the majority have negative connotations with hunters. Lets not propagate that.[/QUOTE]
I didn’t attack her… THAT’S PART OF MY POINT

[lmlacross]

[QUOTE=StormyDay;8867324]
Ok guys, lets not attack the OP.
You aren’t going to see a standing on a fox hunter, which is what our discipline is based off of. [/QUOTE]

I hunt in a standing (or standing attachment, to breastplate) to situationally save my face. Many Americans do-- especially if deep water crossings aren’t part of their country.

[Madeline]

[QUOTE=StormyDay;8867324]

And OP is correct in some ways. You aren’t going to see a standing on a fox hunter, which is what our discipline is based off of. .[/QUOTE]

Times may have changed, but when I was hunting regularly in country requiring substantial jumping and galloping you saw standing martingales about 30(or more) to 1 over running out in the actual field. Because 1. they work 2. unless you’re swimming a deep river, a correctly adjusted one is safe and 3. few people have good enough hands to keep a running from being abusive.

[StormyDay]

[QUOTE=Inclined;8867946]
Just to clarify, according to previous threads in the hunting forum, there are quite a few COTH members who use a standing martingale while hunting.[/QUOTE]

Huh, no one used them where I grew up. Of course they had to cross water. Quite a few used running though.

Edit: Now that I think of it, I do notice the foxhunters here using them. I thought that was weird but I guess it is just different learning ways.

[MtnDrmz]

[QUOTE=StormyDay;8867945]
OP isn’t calling hunters crazy in post 31. She is clearly saying it as ‘wow, I didn’t know that!’ Not ‘Hunters is horrible, crazy sport no one should ever partake in’
Now, OP obviously doesn’t know much about hunters. She has admitted that. But attacking her isn’t the way we should act when someone wants to try our sport! English horse disciplines, especially ones like hunters, which can be hard to understand, already struggle with getting people to join. Lets try to not act like the vicious hunter people cliche, it turns people off and drives people away, and there is no reason to do it. I love this sport, and hate to see it dragged through the gutter. When you talk to people in other disciplines, the majority have negative connotations with hunters. Lets not propagate that.[/QUOTE]

After reading the whole thread a few days ago, before we got to this point, I have to say that I read OPs posts as coming across with a definite Tone of attacking hunters, and being a bit snotty from the very first “wow that’s crazy” standing martingale comment, as well as her responses to a couple other posters offering their two cents about her listed attire choices. And that tone was confirmed by her next few comments where she clearly has a strong opinion about martingales, for whatever reason, and also clearly a lack of knowledge to go with it. I got a little tone from VXF when she commented after that first martingale comment stuff as well, but I got the tone from OP first.

I think people get frustrated when someone comes on here, does not appear to be the most educated, and yet take stances on items they are vehemently against, but also admittedly not experienced with. Also, there are sooooo many threads on this exact topic of hunter tack, but OP choose not to look into it first. Her whole post just comes off as a bit flipid, asking, but maybe not actually open to the responses 100%, I got the snotty tone too, and I didn’t get a thoughtful tone from the very first post. I think when you come across this way, people’s responses to you follow suit. Maybe others read it totally different then me, and that’s ok too. We only go off how we read things on here, and when something reads with a tone, it usually gets a tone in response. Not saying that we shouldn’t all be the bigger person, but then this forum would be no fun at all!

[McGurk]

Standings were much more common than runnings out foxhunting in my part of the world.

I know eventers in particular are absolutely dead set against standing martingales for safety reasons, yet I’ve crossed terrain, obstacles and water foxhunting that would make even the most experienced eventers blanche. I find it odd that something deemed to be too dangerous for a pre-set, purposefully designed, groomed and landscaped course, how ever difficult; is judged to be perfectly fine for people riding over unscripted/unknown terrain.

I saw some pretty awful wrecks out foxhunting, but none attributable to the use of a particular martingale.

As far as the tie-down/martingale debate; I rarely see a standing without slack in it (that’s the way they’re supposed to be adjusted) and I have rarely seen a tie down with slack in it. Now, maybe that speaks to the level of Western horseman I encounter locally - I’m in a area where the Western riders tend to be backyardigans. Maybe somewhere there are horses in tie downs with a relaxed, stretched forward head and neck and slack in the tie-down, I just haven’t seen them.

I will also add my .02 that if this is a Hunter under Saddle or Hunter Hack class at a schooling show, and I have kids and timid ammies in the class, I am not going to be very appreciative of you schooling your hot jumper in unconventional tack who’s not used to crowded rings. But it’s a schooling show, and I’ve seen worse.

So…to each his own.

[PoohLP]

A hunter green coat is conventional, just not widely seen. Your butt is in the saddle so, meh.

But your hands (and matched/mismatched boots) are front and center and every time the judge looks at your horse, she will see them. If you can possibly swing it, try to be all black (for you, not your tack) or, if you are feeling daring, all brown. Buy an inexpensive pair of black gloves and keep them in the trailer for the rare cases when you want to go in a hunter class.

If you are like I was with my green bean, low hunter classes are a great place to give your youngster the opportunity to have a nice quiet round predictable round and possibly even pin. And that is always easier if you look the part!

[MHM]

[QUOTE=MtnDrmz;8868455]
Not saying that we shouldn’t all be the bigger person, but then this forum would be no fun at all![/QUOTE]
You’ve said a mouthful there! :lol:

And in that vein, Merriam-Webster says that "inciteful " is not a word. But maybe it should be here on the BB. :yes:

[SouthernYankee]

[QUOTE=Inclined;8867946]
Just to clarify, according to previous threads in the hunting forum, there are quite a few COTH members who use a standing martingale while hunting.[/QUOTE]

I use a standing martingale AND a gag bit while hunting!! :eek:

I resorted to it after using all other sort of bits and a running martingale without the desired affect. And you know what? It ended up being the magical combination for my fire breathing, hot headed, chestnut, mare and now that she knows I can control her she is much more polite and I can ride her on the buckle most of the hunt! I know crazy right?!

[JenEM]

@PoohLP;8868512

But your hands (and matched/mismatched boots) are front and center and every time the judge looks at your horse, she will see them. If you can possibly swing it, try to be all black (for you, not your tack) or, if you are feeling daring, all brown. Buy an inexpensive pair of black gloves and keep them in the trailer for the rare cases when you want to go in a hunter class.

Actually, for formal appointments, ladies are required to be in black (dress) boots and brown gloves. You’d only wear black gloves if you were in mourning, and thus, it would be inappropriate to be horse showing :winkgrin: “Mismatching” boots and gloves wouldn’t bother me in the least, because it’s completely correct.

I’m friends with enough folks who hunt, to see plenty of photos on FB of horses out hunting in standings, or standing attachments. I don’t think it’s uncommon or unusual at all.

[yellowbritches]

I used to hunt a little Irish horse who was a DREAM to hunt (basically did it on the buckle, watched the field so I didn’t have to, knew where the hounds were 100% of the time, was polite and honest and fabulous) EXCEPT standing at checks. He’d stand like a statue, except for his head, which he’d throw around like a weapon in protest to having to check. Anyone who hunted him was saved many broken noses and black eyes by using a standing!

[gottagrey]

I’m not sure why the big discussion over standing vs. running- bottom line the question is appropriate tack for hunter classes - no martingales are allowed in U/S classes, however, at some schooling shows in very low level classes some shows are allowing them (standing) - trust me, if you’ve seen what I’ve see you know exactly what I mean :eek: (Safety again).

I can’t recall if I’ve ever seen or heard of a bad crash or injury due to the use of a standing martingale. The working and performance hunters are jumping courses at what - 4’? and do so with ease using a standing martingale. I’ve seen some martingales -both standing and running - so loose that I’d be more afraid of the horse putting a foot through than anything…

[StormyDay]

[QUOTE=gottagrey;8868811]
I’m not sure why the big discussion over standing vs. running- bottom line the question is appropriate tack for hunter classes - no martingales are allowed in U/S classes, however, at some schooling shows in very low level classes some shows are allowing them (standing) - trust me, if you’ve seen what I’ve see you know exactly what I mean :eek: (Safety again).

I can’t recall if I’ve ever seen or heard of a bad crash or injury due to the use of a standing martingale. The working and performance hunters are jumping courses at what - 4’? and do so with ease using a standing martingale. I’ve seen some martingales -both standing and running - so loose that I’d be more afraid of the horse putting a foot through than anything…[/QUOTE]

And that is exactly what I have seen happen
It was a freak accident though. But yes, it is a real possibility.

[LessSugarMoreSpice]

WOW just WOW. I can’t believe how many of you are seriously being jerks. This is exactly why I tend not to post at all on this forum. Honestly VX, you are ridiculous.

I’m sorry OP that so many posters were so rude! Who gives a sh*t if the OP doesn’t like standing martingales, guess what, I prefer not to use them either!! GET OVER IT. Just answer the OP’s questions, which some of you so nicely did.

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=LessSugarMoreSpice;8869505]
WOW just WOW. I can’t believe how many of you are seriously being jerks. This is exactly why I tend not to post at all on this forum. Honestly VX, you are ridiculous.

I’m sorry OP that so many posters were so rude! Who gives a sh*t if the OP doesn’t like standing martingales, guess what, I prefer not to use them either!! GET OVER IT. Just answer the OP’s questions, which some of you so nicely did.[/QUOTE]

Last line in the OP’s Post # 34, Post 37 and 38 is the posts) to which people reacted negatively. It wasn’t just “she doesn’t like to use them”. Phrases like “tieing to its chest” etc shows ignorance of correctly used tools, as ANY tool improperly used is a hazard. Don’t like it- don’t use it. But don’t disparage those who do and know how to do it correctly (and safely).

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=LessSugarMoreSpice;8869505]
WOW just WOW. I can’t believe how many of you are seriously being jerks. This is exactly why I tend not to post at all on this forum. Honestly VX, you are ridiculous.

I’m sorry OP that so many posters were so rude! Who gives a sh*t if the OP doesn’t like standing martingales, guess what, I prefer not to use them either!! GET OVER IT. Just answer the OP’s questions, which some of you so nicely did.[/QUOTE]

Name calling, the ultimate form of cultured discussion.

[LessSugarMoreSpice]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8869519]
Name calling, the ultimate form of cultured discussion.[/QUOTE]

Oh PUUULLLLLLEASE!!!

And pot meet kettle, didn’t you call the OP CRAZY in your first response to her? Yep, you sure did.