Interesting comment about the weight of riders

[BigMama1]

Nope - in that whole thread this was the only thing I said about insurance. Nowhere does it say I think obese people shouldn’t pay more, the way smokers do.

“Canadians very much have that concern. Although we don’t pay for our own insurance or healthcare costs directly, we pay for everyone’s health care through our taxes. I still don’t believe that gives me the right to lecture an alcoholic, a smoker, a drug user, or anyone else about their health or to make comments about someone’s health unless that person specifically asks me for my opinion.”

[BigMama1]

I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.

[Ruth0552]

I’d be pretty pissed if my insurance said I needed to pay more. There are thousands of risks and reasons someone is more of an insurance risk. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a smoker paying more either. At least not where I live.

And frankly I’m a little appalled at the turn that this is taking.

Did it occur to anyone that not all fat people WANT to be fat? That some of us have been trying to lose weight for ages? In 2009 I weighed 137 and started a new medication. For years I complained to my PCP about my weight gain and she insisted that it wasn’t the medication and that it was just middle age catching up with me. I saw 2 different nutritionists. Once I explained my lifestyle, hobbies, and kept a food journal, they were excited to see how much weight I had lost. I had gained a pound. They didn’t know what to do with me. All my bloodwork is fine and has been checked numerous times. I finally saw my endocrinologist that I have for a TOTALLY unrelated reason and asked her about it and she said NOPE it is 100% absolutely the medication you are on. So now I’m seeing a medication management specialist to try to find a new medication. And my PCP left, so I have a new PCP, and she asked me, have you thought about losing weight? I wanted to punch her in the throat. The only time, since 2009 that I have managed to lose any weight at all, was while I was in the hospital following a blood clot and literally ate only some fruit and salad for a week. I think I lost 5 pounds, which quickly came back once I started eating real food.

So it’s not like all of us are lying around eating cheetos on the couch. That is not a thing in my life. We don’t even buy chips. It might be easy for some people to lose weight, and for those people it’s so easy to look at others and say oh, they just need to cut back on calories and exercise more. But what happens when you are exercising and eating and minimal number of calories and STILL not losing weight?

[BigMama1]

@Ruth0552

Did it occur to anyone that not all fat people WANT to be fat? That some of us have been trying to lose weight for ages?

Some of us have been trying to explain that over and over, but others are apparently determined to see obesity simply as a result of complacency and laziness.

I’m overweight too, and when it comes to insurance, which is based on statistical risk, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for companies to charge more to people with increased risk factors. If they just do it for fat people, no that wouldn’t be fair. But if they assess your whole lifestyle, risky sports/ hobbies, driving history, drug / alcohol / cigarette use, and assign a cost based on statistical risk it doesn’t bother me.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Ruth0552

I’d be pretty pissed if my insurance said I needed to pay more. There are thousands of risks and reasons someone is more of an insurance risk. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a smoker paying more either. At least not where I live.

And frankly I’m a little appalled at the turn that this is taking.

Did it occur to anyone that not all fat people WANT to be fat? That some of us have been trying to lose weight for ages? In 2009 I weighed 137 and started a new medication. For years I complained to my PCP about my weight gain and she insisted that it wasn’t the medication and that it was just middle age catching up with me. I saw 2 different nutritionists. Once I explained my lifestyle, hobbies, and kept a food journal, they were excited to see how much weight I had lost. I had gained a pound. They didn’t know what to do with me. All my bloodwork is fine and has been checked numerous times. I finally saw my endocrinologist that I have for a TOTALLY unrelated reason and asked her about it and she said NOPE it is 100% absolutely the medication you are on. So now I’m seeing a medication management specialist to try to find a new medication. And my PCP left, so I have a new PCP, and she asked me, have you thought about losing weight? I wanted to punch her in the throat. The only time, since 2009 that I have managed to lose any weight at all, was while I was in the hospital following a blood clot and literally ate only some fruit and salad for a week. I think I lost 5 pounds, which quickly came back once I started eating real food.

So it’s not like all of us are lying around eating cheetos on the couch. That is not a thing in my life. We don’t even buy chips. It might be easy for some people to lose weight, and for those people it’s so easy to look at others and say oh, they just need to cut back on calories and exercise more. But what happens when you are exercising and eating and minimal number of calories and STILL not losing weight?

AMEN. Thank you for saying this.

[mmeqcenter]

Also, it’s a well-known issue with medical professionals, that they constantly assume an over-weight person’s health issues are due to their weight, but ultimately the patient’s issues are found to NOT have a single thing to due with weight much of the time. Many other times, weight is found to be a symptom of the health issues, not the cause. Stories are easy to Google.
Yet the general population continues to believe the lies - that being overweight is an awful, horrendous, disgusting thing.

Even the BMI scale has been proven to be incorrect and meaningless, something made up to enable racism from insurance companies.

Cigarettes are absolutely disgusting, vile, and it’s absurd to me that anyone under the age of 50 ever started smoking in the first place. They are proven to cause a myriad of health issues, not the least of which being cancer, which is hugely expensive to treat (chemo, radiation, etc.). So, it logically follows that insurance charges more to insure smokers.

Insurance is all a scam in the first place, but that’s a topic for a different board.

[McGurk]

FWIW,

A lot of employer sponsered health plans in the US charge a higher premium for smokers, that’s something that’s been around for a while.

Some employer sponsored plans also have “Wellness programs” which give participants a discount on their premiums if they meet certain goals/health landmarks. One I was familar with had employees submit documentation of their BP, AIC, and cholesterol and if all were within limits, they received a credit on their premiums. This program very carefully avoided the weight issue by focusing on metrics affected by, but separate from weight. Participation was voluntary, but if you wanted the discount, you submitted the paperwork.

All that said, fat shaming is still very much a thing. And I’m pretty tired of it. After retiring last Apirl, I’ve been on a health journey, the start of which was finally getting a chronic back issue resolved and thereby returning to a normal activity level, being able to exercise, etc. And I’ve lost a ton of weight, which is great. No one, and I mean no one, remembers the chronic pain issue. No one says “So glad you’re feeling better/can walk/stand without pain.” Everyone comments on the weight loss, which is nice, but…the assumption is that the weight was the whole problem, not the chronic pain. I was fat because I was crippled, and most people assumed that I was crippled because I was fat and that losing weight solved my problem. (Because if you believe the media, losing weight solves ALL problems, including global warming.)

In re: the rider weight issue, I hope that there is more good quality research being done. I think Deb Bennet let her research confirm her existing bias. People need to stop quoting the old cavalry manual and look at the whole picture: horse conformation and conditioning, rider skill/balance, rider fitness, terrain, type of riding, etc. I would like to stop being self conscious anytime I get on anything that isn’t a 17H draft cross.

And @BigMama1, I think you look fine on your horse. It’s a lovely photo.

[Alterration]

I suffered both from a medication side-effect (I took a med that in the research says permanently affects metabolism) and from a chronic pain issue (just had two surgeries this year to correct it) that did exactly the same thing. Then I discovered I actually had undiagnosed celiac which meant that I gained weight because my body wanted nutrients and was causing me to be hungry all the time in order to get adequate nutrients (it’s a thing, look it up). I was eating healthy foods, rarely desserts, and people would look at me assuming I was living on fast food and Doritos. Untrue.

As I come out of the celiac fog, am finding non-impact ways of exercising, and getting back to riding, I want to give a big middle finger to all of the medical professionals who diagnosed me with “just getting older” and the ones who said to “just go to weight watchers”. And I’m equally tired of the judgement of the public.

You would think that we would know this, as horse people. There are horses who get fat on air, and other horses that you can shove grain and hay into until there’s no tomorrow and they stay slender. It’s not just how much they exercise, we know that too. Why would we assume that humans are so different?

[cutter99]

Many of these horses do not hold up long term.

I showed cutters, and one former competitor I showed against was a retired NFL lineman. He was 6’3” and not slender. His horses tended to be taller, especially for cutters- over 15 hands, a few even closer to 16 hands. He would typically get a couple years out of them before they started to have soundness issues. That being said though, many cutters do develop soundness issues due to being pounded hard, worked on tight maneuvers, and loped to death.

I can also add this. I am overweight. I have been riding for over 50 years. I am lucky enough to be able to afford well fitted saddles, that work well for the horses I own. My oldest horse is now 23, and I have owned him for 18 years. He does not have the greatest front end conformation, but I am very conscious of it and have made it a point to always check for soundness issues. He is still ridden 3-4 days a week. He gets no additional maintenance, like joint supplements or injections, as he does not need them currently.

The only soreness or lameness issues he has ever had has been the rare abscess, of which I can think of 2 in the last 18 years. I trail ride and work very hard to keep my horses fit. I keep up with maintenance and have a great feeding program. My horses see the farrier regularly, as well as the vet. I am lucky enough to have the same type of terrain on my farm that I haul out to camp and ride on, so my horses are ready for what they will be expected to cover.

I believe my riding experience and ability to ride correctly do have something to do with not making my horse uncomfortable when I ride. I have never had a professional tell me not to ride, and have won my fair share of equitation classes.

[Snowdenfarm]

We should not lose sight of the fact that it has nothing to do with rider’s BMI. It is pure physics. Using Dr. Deb’s calculations, no horse can comfortably carry more than 250 lbs of combined rider and tack weight. If the rider rides poorly, or the horse has an average or longer loin (free span), that amount is even less. A 6’2", 200 lb. rider has the same BMI as a 5’4" 150 lb rider. One may be thinner for their height than the other, but in a western saddle the tall, thin one is the one that is pushing the limit for most horses.

[endlessclimb]

I stand corrected re: your thoughts. As I stated there - not entirely relevant though, as you are Canadian and the comments were more centric to US type health care concerns. I understand you all shoulder the burden there, but one group is not singled out and required to pay more.

There were others there that took great issue with the concept though…

[GoodTimes]

It’s a sensitive topic for sure, and one with a lot of factors.
I think the most important thing is for every rider to be honest with themselves. Check in once in awhile and take a good hard look at how things are working for you and your horse. Every rider should be doing this, even if they aren’t overweight.
Maybe your weight hasn’t changed but your horse is getting older, or they have an old injury that’s catching up with them. Maybe your weight hasn’t changed but you haven’t been going to the gym so your strength and balance have decreased. Heck, maybe your weight decreased but your strength also decreased.
Maybe your weight hasn’t changed, but an injury has affected how you ride. Maybe you put on a couple pounds without really noticing.

I really feel for those who struggle with their weight. But for those who are morbidly obese (not saying that anyone on this thread is), they really need to consider the impact on the horses that they ride.

[sportyspicepony]

@Alterration

When I look at studies conducted, often they have some major flaws such as the study that failed to change saddle size for the heavy and very heavy rider. It’s a no brainer for me that a heavier person sitting on the cantle of the saddle because it’s too small is going to cause pain, and it’s likely that a light person sitting on the cantle of a too small saddle would have a similar issue. But no one talks about that either.

I think we would be far better off discussing horse and rider fitness, strength, and saddle fit & hoof care issues rather than blanket statements about weight for personal horses & riders. Hacking stables & lesson stables have slightly different challenges, but many of those skimp on the horse care bit, let’s be frank.

This!!! The studies that have been done on this that I’ve seen suck, and even acknowledge their own vast limitations.

I’d also love to see a real, good, well-designed study on how common this problem really is, because I feel like there’s a whole lot of hand-wringing going on without a lot of evidence that it’s that big of an issue.

And I mean a study not a bunch of anecdotal stories from people judging others based on their appearance alone.

People really have no idea how much bias affects their everyday observations!

[candyappy]

@Alterration

I think we would be far better off discussing horse and rider fitness, strength, and saddle fit & hoof care issues rather than blanket statements about weight for personal horses & riders.

Hacking stables & lesson stables have slightly different challenges, but many of those skimp on the horse care bit, let’s be frank.

That is another issue. We put grazing muzzles on our horses, limit hay to a small hole in a hay net and micro manage the hard feed by NSC and other things all in the name of weight management–but many times we don’t do the same in our own lives so that our horses benefit.

I have known of several outfits who offer trail ride / lesson horses where the horses were treated like gold, so that is obviously place specific.

[Snowdenfarm]

I mean, if we are really honest with ourselves, horses are not biomechanically designed to carry weight on their backs at all. Especially not with their heads up above grazing height.

[KBC]

Interesting how quickly it turned to overweight riders. The important take away, this is a fit guy, looks like he is well within normal weight guidelines, but riding a very small pony. It’s a discussion that was heard at ringside many times here a few years back, as the cute teeny rider, took a growth spurt and rapidly outgrew her very cute, but very small pony.

Yes we can make it about larger than average people, like myself, or we can just admit that for many reasons certain horse/pony rider combinations just don’t work, size mismatch is just one.

[ASB_Stars]

It’s not “interesting”. It’s part of the piece.

[KBC]

@ASB_Stars

It’s not “interesting”. It’s part of the piece.

Oh I’m sorry, I’ll correct that, I find it interesting.

Fact is that the original complaint is about a “normal” person riding a pony that is far too small for them. That bit always gets overlooked as we move to discussing “fat”

I don’t care if you deem it interesting or not.

[BigMama1]

Agree that it’s not about fat in this case, but it is certainly about the rider’s weight being inappropriate for the pony, in addition to the pain he is knowingly and gleefully inflicting upon the poor animal.

[ASB_Stars]

The point is that you immediately think of weight. That’s on you. How is the fact that he appears fit relevant?