is this really linda parelli?

[Beverley]

@jn1193;4731910

BUT… some of these posts are a classic case of COTH posters making comments about a situation in isolation from a video several years old without knowing the full story of this horse.

I do.

I know this horse and his owner very well. The owner rescued this horse from a killer pen. He was already blind in the one eye and was a basket case - terrified, skinny, wormy, beaten and about to be shipped to his death. After years of patience and love, he is quiet and rideable. He is fat and shiny (as anyone CAN see in the video.) He is happy in his home. He has buddies. He is well taken care of in a home for life with big fields of grass. He is loved. He is cherished. And HE loves HIS life.

I’ll put MY name, and MY professional reputation to my statements about this horse and this owner.

Jane Nordstrom

Jane,

It’s great that the horse was rescued, and certainly the video shows him to be in good flesh. I don’t think anyone here questions the owner’s good intentions. To digress for a second- that is the problem with the Parelli ‘kool aid’-- well intentioned people with lack of knowledge will buy into ‘anything’ from ‘experts’ aka snake oil salesmen.

However, as to your apparent point that people judging a video are coming to faulty conclusions because they don’t know the full story- no, sorry, absolutely not. I’ve been riding horses for 50 years and started my first 2 yo in 1966. Just an amateur mind you, but I’ve certainly taken advantage of the opportunities to soak up some good knowledge from truly good horsemen, some famous, some you never heard of, in that time.

Many, many posts just looking at the video present a very accurate summary of what is happening in that video. What it is NOT is good horsemanship. As has been previously posted by several, the fact that the horse is doing well is in spite of, not because of, LP’s handling of the horse- it does not rise to the definition of training or competent handling.

The video shows very clearly that horse’s behavior and LP’s absolutely incompetent response to that behavior. There aren’t any ifs ands or buts, and it has nothing to do with the horse’s history- one can see from his body cues and demeanor that he is not a bad horse.

If anything, his history of abuse only makes all the more appalling the way he was handled in that video.

I could have taken the lead rope on that horse, for free, in the four minutes or so the video took, and made some meaningful progress without a single ‘clunk’ or shake of a lead shank. I’m sure many other posters here could have, as well.

I’d even say that this thread is not so much gratuitous Parelli bashing as railing against bad horsemanship sold for considerable profit- doesn’t matter ‘who’ does that, it is a terrible thing.

[Ware_Whip]

@Beverley;4732662

Jane,

It’s great that the horse was rescued, and certainly the video shows him to be in good flesh. I don’t think anyone here questions the owner’s good intentions. To digress for a second- that is the problem with the Parelli ‘kool aid’-- well intentioned people with lack of knowledge will buy into ‘anything’ from ‘experts’ aka snake oil salesmen.

However, as to your apparent point that people judging a video are coming to faulty conclusions because they don’t know the full story- no, sorry, absolutely not. I’ve been riding horses for 50 years and started my first 2 yo in 1966. Just an amateur mind you, but I’ve certainly taken advantage of the opportunities to soak up some good knowledge from truly good horsemen, some famous, some you never heard of, in that time.

Many, many posts just looking at the video present a very accurate summary of what is happening in that video. What it is NOT is good horsemanship. As has been previously posted by several, the fact that the horse is doing well is in spite of, not because of, LP’s handling of the horse- it does not rise to the definition of training or competent handling.

The video shows very clearly that horse’s behavior and LP’s absolutely incompetent response to that behavior. There aren’t any ifs ands or buts, and it has nothing to do with the horse’s history- one can see from his body cues and demeanor that he is not a bad horse.

If anything, his history of abuse only makes all the more appalling the way he was handled in that video.

I could have taken the lead rope on that horse, for free, in the four minutes or so the video took, and made some meaningful progress without a single ‘clunk’ or shake of a lead shank. I’m sure many other posters here could have, as well.

I’d even say that this thread is not so much gratuitous Parelli bashing as railing against bad horsemanship sold for considerable profit- doesn’t matter ‘who’ does that, it is a terrible thing.

Flawless, Thank you Beverley

[MassageLady]

I totally agree! Great post!:yes:

[Equibrit]

It seems to have made The Petition Site (not quite sure about the purpose of said petition however) http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/natural-horsemanship-horse-abuse

[Keg-A-Bacchus]

Wow. Wow. And Wow. I haven’t read all the posts but I just have to say this is some unbelievably horrible training. For one, her intentions to the horse are unclear. He has NO idea what she is asking…as it seems neither do any of us. Two, her “corrections” are abusive and unnecessary. This should be posted as an example of what NEVER to do. I don’t care WHAT this horse did in the past…this training is abusive and unwarranted. If this is Linda Parelli I hope that all of the followers can see how awful and ineffective this “training” is. If that was my horse I would have put a halter on that woman, sent her in circles while whipping her, cranked on her repeatedly, slapped her in the face, whipped her some more, cranked her to a halt some more and then slapped her in the face again. Let her get a taste of her own medicine. Unbelievable. There is no excuse for such awful treatment of a horse and there is no “problem” that can’t be fixed without resorting to such abusive techniques. I really hope there are some repercussions for this “trainer”.

[jn4jenny]

Let’s not indict Natural Horsemanship at large as the problem here. Idiot handler, yes. Inappropriate technique, yes. Total failure to work WITH the horse instead of AGAINST the horse, yes. But to indict all of NH based on this video would be like indicting all of dressage training because some people crank n’ spank. Hate the player, not the game.

Any “real” NH trainer would have given the rope a gentle shake, and when the horse didn’t respond, they would have immediately noticed that the horse wasn’t comprehending and gone back to a simpler concept. Instead, this asshat just kept trying to escalate the demands. And that’s the problem with NH in my opinion–too few of its practitioners have been trained well enough in the technique to execute it with sympathy and consistency.

It’s the equivalent of giving a verbal command for a horse to move forward on the lunge line, then when the horse doesn’t move, escalating immediately to a whip crack that makes contact with the flank–and then yanking the horse in the mouth because it took off running.

[sdlbredfan]

jn4jenny, your comment 'But to indict all of NH based on this video ’ is not making sense to me. No one is ‘indicting NH’. This thread is about a wannabe but idiotic person who wrongly claims that what she and her program do, is NH. That is much different.

[Alagirl]

I rewatched the video Bluey pulled up, the ‘precursor’ to the first…

I tried to see how the horse could ever be defined as ‘dangerous’ to justify this assinine behavior around him, I didn’t see it. I saw a bit of nervousness, happy feet, but polite and in place…

Then endless rope shaking…and some more and yet more…the rope shaking so hard the handler go his head wrapped up in it…now there is for a dangerous horse that did not move, otherwise the fool would be a head shorter…

I have seen horses that would just yawn at you and wait till you are done shaking that rope - or until your arm breaks off…but others who would have positively flipped a lid and the result would have been positively ugly!

Oh, not to mention my Dad, 25 years ago, before Monty and his road show hit the Old World (and he has the backing of renouned horsepeople over there) would have wrapped that danged lead around my head and thrown me into the ice cold well water if I had ever thought of acting like that around a horse! And by no means was horse handling ever a ‘just luuuuuuveee him and he will be fine’ proposition at the barn!

[mp]

[QUOTE=jn4jenny;4733709]
Let’s not indict Natural Horsemanship at large as the problem here. Idiot handler, yes. Inappropriate technique, yes. Total failure to work WITH the horse instead of AGAINST the horse, yes. But to indict all of NH based on this video would be like indicting all of dressage training because some people crank n’ spank. Hate the player, not the game.

Any “real” NH trainer would have given the rope a gentle shake, and when the horse didn’t respond, they would have immediately noticed that the horse wasn’t comprehending and gone back to a simpler concept. Instead, this asshat just kept trying to escalate the demands. And that’s the problem with NH in my opinion–too few of its practitioners have been trained well enough in the technique to execute it with sympathy and consistency.[/QUOTE]

But but but – shouldn’t THIS particular NH trainer know what she’s doing? It’s Linda Parelli. Didn’t her husband didn’t coin the term “Natural Horsemanship” and develop the whole program? Isn’t she isn’t exposed to the NH tenets of training every single day? Doesn’t she actually teach this stuff herself?

And if THAT level of exposure results in THIS level of asshattery, then what should you expect from other, lesser mortals?

I’ve never had much of an opinion about the Parelli NH phenom before. Yes, it’s gimmicky and the marketing schtick would leave you thinking everyone before Pat Parelli was a no-talent hack. But I honestly thought maybe some people could benefit from it. But these videos show that Natural Horsemanship is a sham.

A complete and utter sham.

[MassageLady]

But but but – shouldn’t THIS particular NH trainer know what she’s doing? It’s Linda Parelli. Didn’t her husband didn’t coin the term “Natural Horsemanship” and develop the whole program? Isn’t she isn’t exposed to the NH tenets of training every single day? Doesn’t she actually teach this stuff herself?

Exactly the point of this! If this was a level 1 student that was doing this-and she came over to stop them, and taught them correctly-that would be one thing…but ‘the Great and Awesome Linda Parelli’ :lol: is the one doing it. totally and utterly unprofessional and unnecessary.

Instead, this asshat just kept trying to escalate the demands. And that’s the problem with NH in my opinion–too few of its practitioners have been trained well enough in the technique to execute it with sympathy and consistency.

this is an INSTRUCTOR-NOT A STUDENT, that’s the whole probem here.:lol:
My question is…if they are filming this for a level 1 program, imagine the level of hostility that is NOT on film.:eek::yes:

[Alagirl]

@MassageLady;4734309

My question is…if they are filming this for a level 1 program, imagine the level of hostility that is NOT on film.:eek::yes:

Shocking…

Or what goes on when the students go home…

[goobs]

Clearly noone on this thread can see exactly what this woman was trying to do to this horse! Confuse and frighten the animal! What is so hard about seeing her try to do that? Since the horse was not giving the appropriate response it resulted in more shaking and face slapping etc. Face slapping will surely succeed in making this horse headshy - if she’s lucky!

(I hope everyone knows I am joking. In reality I wanted to reach into that video and bslap her into the next universe. She is an utter moron and one day a well placed hoof will hopefully teach her.)

[jn4jenny]

[QUOTE=mp;4734281]
But but but – shouldn’t THIS particular NH trainer know what she’s doing? It’s Linda Parelli.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think anyone who really understands horsemanship of any kind, including Natural Horsemanship, would ever apply the words “know what they’re doing” to the Parellis.

I know many NH practitioners who think the Parellis are absolutely full of s— and a total discredit to NH and to horsemanship at large. I agree.

Didn’t her husband didn’t coin the term “Natural Horsemanship” and develop the whole program?

NH techniques were practiced for years before he came along. As early as 1810, there was an Irish horseman who was known as a “horse whisperer” who was using concepts of herd dynamics/horse body language in his training. Pat Parelli has even said that he got some of his ideas from the Dorrance brothers, who came out of the vaquero tradition in California (and who were born in the 1900’s, so obviously much older than Parelli).

Parelli’s just the asshat who figured out how to dumb it down and sell it to the clueless masses. He put a flashy marketing spin on it, invented some gadgets that he could mark up to the sky, and told people a huge lie: that they could learn ANY kind of horsemanship from a video, clinic, or book.

But I stand by the maxim that a good horseperson recognizes that there’s a time and place for every training technique, and one should not use a training technique unless/until one has practiced it under expert supervision, and a good horseperson would never dismiss a training technique outright without considering whether it’s the practitioner, the gadget, or the underlying theory of training that’s the real problem. In this case, I would assert that Linda Parelli’s complete inability to read a horse is the problem, not the halter and rope and not the theory of real Natural Horsemanship.

Isn’t she isn’t exposed to the NH tenets of training every single day? Doesn’t she actually teach this stuff herself?
And if THAT level of exposure results in THIS level of asshattery, then what should you expect from other, lesser mortals?

…these videos show that Natural Horsemanship is a sham.

A complete and utter sham.

She’s exposed to Parelli BS every day, yes.

BUT can we PLEASE stop conflating all of Natural Horsemanship with Parelli Asshattery? That is ridiculously inaccurate.

Is dressage defined by the people that do Rollkur and crank n’ spank their horses? Is western riding defined by people slapping huge curb bits on their horses and making them peanut-roll at shuffling speeds? Is the hunter discipline defined by people who pole their horses and put them in studden nosebands?

Nope. NH gets a bad rap because it has many bad, ill trained, extremely visible practitioners. Not because there’s something automatically wrong with the methods.

Linda Parelli is an asshat. But in the right hands, NH doesn’t have to = asshattery.

[harvestmoon]

Great post, jn4jenny. I was trying to form a response but my brain is out of order today. No bother, you said it perfectly.

[ESG]

Unless I misread, the title of this thread is, “Is this really Linda Parelli?” Sorry, but that’s not “an idictment of natural horsemanship”; it’s a richly deserved criticism of someone who has set herself up as an expert horse trainer, and was shown to be utterly incompetent. Anyone getting defensive because of this video (and its critics) needs to relax and rethink. If the shoe doesn’t fit, don’t worry about it.

Beverley, flawless post, indeed. :yes:

[sdlbredfan]

Whoohoo, read today’s fugly blog! WTG fugs, this is great to get more exposure for this twit we are discussing, so more people can be as appalled as we are! I particularly love this line ‘Why are you flapping your elbows like a brain damaged chicken, you twit?’
http://www.fuglyblog.com/

[Sonesta]

Since for some reason these dipsticks have been being taken seriously in England - I’ve even heard rumours that the Queen has asked them to do some instructing of her trainers! - I wish there was a way to get a copy of this horrifying video to the Queen mum.

I suspect SHE’d horsewhip LP, personally, if she handled a horse of hers like that!

[Equibrit]

@Sonesta;4734778

I wish there was a way to get a copy of this horrifying video to the Queen mum.

You’d have to dig her up.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/obituaries/queen_mother/funeral_procession/procession.stm

Suggest you read this http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php?Number=5406168 which seems to echo the general feeling here.

QEII is no fool when it comes to horses and snake oil salesmen. It is severely frowned upon by HRH to use her name when promoting you tawdry business, and PP claims to be "The trainer, who gave Queen Elizabeth II a private lesson on the equine mind, "

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Sonesta;4734778]
Since for some reason these dipsticks have been being taken seriously in England - I’ve even heard rumours that the Queen has asked them to do some instructing of her trainers! - I wish there was a way to get a copy of this horrifying video to the Queen mum.

I suspect SHE’d horsewhip LP, personally, if she handled a horse of hers like that![/QUOTE]

Walter Zettl went to work for them, I wondered about that at that time, a couple of years ago.
Surely he was aware of the way they do that ground work.
The Connors are supposed to also be involved with the PPs.
The PPs have their many followers and maybe one of them had the Queen’s ear.:yes:

[Sonesta]

Honestly, having been around WAZ quite a few times and having had discussions with him about the Ps, I believe they present to him a completely different face than they do to others. I do NOT believe WAZ has ever seen them handle a horse this way.

I have seen him go off on a guy that was mistreating his horse and I just don’t see him sitting by quietly and watching such bullsh*t as was on this video.

It is my personal opinion that WAZ is trying to be a good influence on the Ps in hopes that he can, through them, reach their many blind followers and improve what they are blindly being fed by the Ps.