[QUOTE=sdlbredfan;4734666]
Whoohoo, read today’s fugly blog! WTG fugs, this is great to get more exposure for this twit we are discussing, so more people can be as appalled as we are! 
I particularly love this line ‘Why are you flapping your elbows like a brain damaged chicken, you twit?’
http://www.fuglyblog.com/[/QUOTE]
There are people on there defending LP. :eek:
[QUOTE=Sonesta;4734849]
Honestly, having been around WAZ quite a few times and having had discussions with him about the Ps, I believe they present to him a completely different face than they do to others. I do NOT believe WAZ has ever seen them handle a horse this way.
I have seen him go off on a guy that was mistreating his horse and I just don’t see him sitting by quietly and watching such bullsh*t as was on this video.
It is my personal opinion that WAZ is trying to be a good influence on the Ps in hopes that he can, through them, reach their many blind followers and improve what they are blindly being fed by the Ps.[/QUOTE]
You really can’t miss this way of training they do, it is there every day and in the training videos, has been there from the start.
It was in the first ever seven games video, was in the RFD-TV programs, in the videos later, the horses being trained with the rope twirling and heads up and shying.
They did say the higher levels work with more “finesse”, I assume without needing to bop horses.
I am guessing WAZ has more things to do then sit in front of the tellie and watch rural shows.
The Parelli devotees are conspicuous by their absence here…perhaps too smart to start an argument around this COTH lot.
BTW - To the poster defending the owner and the horse. I believe you and it is LP that is the target here. The owner is probably trying to learn all he can from various people - I hope upon reflection he realizes the horse was being done a great harm by that nasty, angry woman and that he regrets taking his horse anywhere near the cult. I’m very glad to hear he is in good hands and doing well by someone who has his best interests at heart - if they keep the horse away from that woman.
I agree that I don’t think WAZ watches much RFDTV or that he has sat down and watched the P’s videos.
That video was painful to watch. Ugh.
It has been my experience that many hardcore followers are not interested in selling p-trained horses to non-believers.
I have seen more than a few horses advertised as “excellent level 1/2/whatever horses for new P students!” which, if I understand this whole thing correctly, sort of negates the point of the games.
A died in the wool parellite is showing pictures of two horses fussing over a fence, biting at each other and insist that jaw biting is why they do what LP was doing, bopping that horse in the video.
If that is right, now we know why they twirl the rope like that, it is meant to “jaw wrestle” with the horse just as two horses would do to each other.:eek:
This is getting more bizarre yet.:lol:
[QUOTE=Bluey;4735763]
A died in the wool parellite is showing pictures of two horses fussing over a fence, biting at each other and insist that jaw biting is why they do what LP was doing, bopping that horse in the video.
If that is right, now we know why they twirl the rope like that, it is meant to “jaw wrestle” with the horse just as two horses would do to each other.:eek:
This is getting more bizarre yet.:lol:[/QUOTE]
no kidding!!!
[QUOTE=jn4jenny;4734493]
I don’t think anyone who really understands horsemanship of any kind, including Natural Horsemanship, would ever apply the words “know what they’re doing” to the Parellis.
I know many NH practitioners who think the Parellis are absolutely full of s— and a total discredit to NH and to horsemanship at large. I agree.
NH techniques were practiced for years before he came along. As early as 1810, there was an Irish horseman who was known as a “horse whisperer” who was using concepts of herd dynamics/horse body language in his training. Pat Parelli has even said that he got some of his ideas from the Dorrance brothers, who came out of the vaquero tradition in California (and who were born in the 1900’s, so obviously much older than Parelli).
Parelli’s just the asshat who figured out how to dumb it down and sell it to the clueless masses. He put a flashy marketing spin on it, invented some gadgets that he could mark up to the sky, and told people a huge lie: that they could learn ANY kind of horsemanship from a video, clinic, or book.
But I stand by the maxim that a good horseperson recognizes that there’s a time and place for every training technique, and one should not use a training technique unless/until one has practiced it under expert supervision, and a good horseperson would never dismiss a training technique outright without considering whether it’s the practitioner, the gadget, or the underlying theory of training that’s the real problem. In this case, I would assert that Linda Parelli’s complete inability to read a horse is the problem, not the halter and rope and not the theory of real Natural Horsemanship.
She’s exposed to Parelli BS every day, yes.
BUT can we PLEASE stop conflating all of Natural Horsemanship with Parelli Asshattery? That is ridiculously inaccurate.
Is dressage defined by the people that do Rollkur and crank n’ spank their horses? Is western riding defined by people slapping huge curb bits on their horses and making them peanut-roll at shuffling speeds? Is the hunter discipline defined by people who pole their horses and put them in studden nosebands?
Nope. NH gets a bad rap because it has many bad, ill trained, extremely visible practitioners. Not because there’s something automatically wrong with the methods.
Linda Parelli is an asshat. But in the right hands, NH doesn’t have to = asshattery.[/QUOTE]
I rode in a Ray Hunt clinic years ago. I’m familiar with the Dorrances, (e.g., whenever Mr. Hunt referred to “a friend showed me” or “told me” he was talking about Tom), and know all about where Parelli got his ideas.
I would suggest you stop using “Natural Horsemanship” and “NH” when what you’re really talking about is simply good horsemanship. NH is strongly associated with the Parellis and, because of that, it is an insulting way to refer to people who simply know their way around horses.
Beyond that, I find it amusing that there is a distinction between “good” horsemanship and “natural” horsemanship. Is there something unnatural about it if you don’t use a rope halter or ride with a mecate? Just curious …
Fugly Blog shows account has been suspended . . . COTH to big to tackle but they rail over that one-man show? I’ve been dying to see this video on Fugs . . . I’d like to tout it to the world myself and let it be known what a load of insane BS this is, but think i’ll wait and see the extent of fugs’ hand slap.
OMG, get your barn owner to stop that immediately, dontcallmepat!!! I was just floored and aghasted when I read the ‘When said horse cannot be caught after having a rope wiggled/twirled in her face, they bring the whole herd up and put them in their stalls … So our horses get chased around with a rope and then are stuck in their stalls needlessly.’.
If my horse was chased and/or put away by someone other than myself or the barn owner/manager, I would be livid, unless it was an emergency in which my horse had become injured and needed shelter. Holy cow, that is unbelievable gall! I really, really hope your BO/BM stops that ASAP!
[QUOTE=mp;4735816]
I rode in a Ray Hunt clinic years ago. I’m familiar with the Dorrances, (e.g., whenever Mr. Hunt referred to “a friend showed me” or “told me” he was talking about Tom), and know all about where Parelli got his ideas.
I would suggest you stop using “Natural Horsemanship” and “NH” when what you’re really talking about is simply good horsemanship. NH is strongly associated with the Parellis and, because of that, it is an insulting way to refer to people who simply know their way around horses.
Beyond that, I find it amusing that there is a distinction between “good” horsemanship and “natural” horsemanship. Is there something unnatural about it if you don’t use a rope halter or ride with a mecate? Just curious …[/QUOTE]
This is something I agree with strongly. Ya’ll don’t have the patent on relating with horses naturally, just the words.
oddly enough the ebaums site still has the video…
[QUOTE=dags;4735817]
Fugly Blog shows account has been suspended . . . COTH to big to tackle but they rail over that one-man show? I’ve been dying to see this video on Fugs . . . I’d like to tout it to the world myself and let it be known what a load of insane BS this is, but think i’ll wait and see the extent of fugs’ hand slap.[/QUOTE]
I just checked the http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80925308 link and the video still comes up. As I mentioned a page or so ago, the Parellis are/qualify as ‘public figures’ in the realm of horses due to their fame and advertising, and can be criticized at will with no risk of them claiming slander or libel.
[QUOTE=dags;4735817]
Fugly Blog shows account has been suspended . . . COTH to big to tackle but they rail over that one-man show? I’ve been dying to see this video on Fugs . . . I’d like to tout it to the world myself and let it be known what a load of insane BS this is, but think i’ll wait and see the extent of fugs’ hand slap.[/QUOTE]
I am not sure COTH is THAT big!:eek:
The PP system of training is getting some criticism for some they do that is questionable.
I would think that, rather than squelch any criticism, they would like to see what people say and counteract with why they do what they do and let the chips fall where they may.
If they are so sure their horse training is that stellar, let it speak for itself.
Caprilli had many detractors in his time and finally people decided he did make good sense in that newfangled way of riding he had.
Then, others have fallen by the wayside with their offbeat theories.
I guess that history will tell, as it always has.
[QUOTE=dags;4735823]
This is something I agree with strongly. Ya’ll don’t have the patent on relating with horses naturally, just the words.[/QUOTE]
I think many of us are agreeing that Parelli (and indeed, not even the whole group of trainers who happen to use rope halters) have no exclusive purchase on good horsemanship based on an understanding of the horse.
But if we want to play the semantics game, IMO the term Natural Horsemanship is NOT an automatic arrow toward Parelli and that Parelli did not coin the term. I know that he wrote the book Natural Horse-Man-Ship, which I have read with great amusement. But if at one time NH might have meant “Parelli”, it’s not used that way anymore by most people. The term has expanded to encompass an entire discipline of both good and bad trainers. Gee, not unlike every other horse discipline I can think of. I’m sure way back in history, somebody named dressage and eventing and team penning too.
Back to our scheduled programming of being appalled at Linda Parelli’s asshattery.
[QUOTE=jn4jenny;4735866]
I think many of us are agreeing that Parelli (and indeed, not even the whole group of trainers who happen to use rope halters) have no purchase on good horsemanship based on an understanding of the horse.
But if we want to play the semantics game, IMO the term Natural Horsemanship is NOT an automatic arrow toward Parelli and that Parelli did not coin the term. I know that he wrote the book Natural Horse-Man-Ship, which I have read with great amusement. But if at one time NH might have meant “Parelli”, it’s not used that way anymore by most people. The term has expanded to encompass an entire discipline of both good and bad trainers. Gee, not unlike every other horse discipline I can think of. I’m sure way back in history, somebody named dressage and eventing and team penning too.
Back to our scheduled programming of being appalled at Linda Parelli’s asshattery.[/QUOTE]
Regardless of where the arrow points I disagree with the coining of this term. To me it is nothing but good, common-sense horsemanship, based on timing and feel, and it is the foundation of EVERY discipline, not a discipline within itself.
Just my view, more than happy to continue with this program. Been one of the more enlightening ones to come through in awhile!
[QUOTE=sdlbredfan;4735834]
I just checked the http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80925308 link and the video still comes up. As I mentioned a page or so ago, the Parellis are/qualify as ‘public figures’ in the realm of horses due to their fame and advertising, and can be criticized at will with no risk of them claiming slander or libel.[/QUOTE]
You are missing the real issue sdlbredfan, the PP’s could care less about Fugly. And considering that most horsepeople are more busy with their horses than reading blogs…I would say a huge portion of the horse population has never heard of her either. Which reminds me, I need to get off the computer now and go de-mud some horses :lol:
The real issue is that this video was reproduced. The reproduction is a direct copyright violation and it is subject to fines and imprisonment. Fugly probably only posted what was already copied and posted on that other blog, but the fact remains that she did indeed post it and by displaying it on her blog she is guilty of copyright infringement.
I would bet the Parelli’s are less concerned with Fugly’s comments because seriously…would any of us buy the video’s anyway? It more of a case that a potential buyer will use the bootleg copy instead of buying one that they are worried about.
U Peepul are just jelus. Parelli saved my horse and me’s relashunship. Now we r BFFs! I play games w/ my horse just like u play games w/ ur family. No I don’t RIDE him- just like I don’t ride my bruther. That wuld be krool. She’s obviusly trying to learn that horse a new game in that video, but he jst duzzn’t get the rulz yet. DUH!
U peepul shuld stop picking on the Parelli’s and pick on the peepul that slawter horsies for meat! That’s SOOOOO Krool! I can’t beleeve ne1 wuld want to eat a horse! THey R sooo pretty and kind and nice!
:winkgrin:
Unless it falls under “fair use,” right? Which would include using it for educational or satirical purposes, which could be claimed here.
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