I understand what you are saying, but I worked with a parelli instructor in 2002 while waiting for my horse to grow up enough to be ridden. As far as I can tell, the program has gone dramatically downhill since then. I realize that they are claiming to have put that snippet in for people who may have a “difficult” horse but Linda looks like a crazy #itch no matter how you dice it. My trainer worked with some horses that were actually difficult/dangerous (confirmed kickers, rearers, etc.) and I NEVER saw her whack one like that. I feel nothing for Linda but contempt, but then I think that the whole “system” is just a very successful money making scheme. Helping people and horses has long since gone out the window. The only thing they want to help is their pocketbooks.
To those who have used Parelli- can someone explain to me what a “Phase 4 interrupt” is? That is the terminology being used for the ‘training’ in the clip.
He seems to have gone to seed of late.
Also, whatever happened to John Lyons? Is he not hip with the kids these days?
Thanks for the video. I’ve allways liked CA’s approach to groundwork because he does “reward the try” but I’ve never been a fan of his mounted work before. It was neat to see how Diez responded to hand and weight signals.
He also seems alot clearer in his training cues than the video of LP
I was never sure in her video just what she was asking. The comments seemed to indicate she wanted the horse to stand still. I found this video of CA attemting to accomplish the same thing…with very different techniques and results
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJGZI8ncZaw&feature=related
And yes, I do have a CA halter and lead and the snap under the chin is quite hefty. You can see it on the video. However I never knew it was for “clunking”
A monkey would have been clearer than LP…:lol:
A drunk monkey even!
The video statement with the bulging eyed Lp is very interesting.
She missed an opportunity for damage control there.
Damage control would dictate that you admit you made a mistake in judgement on a particular day and that you would handle it differently today. All her fans would be there with group hugs and more cash if she had done that.
She can’t do that now though, because of her statement. That ego thing can be a bitch.
“CLUNK” to YOUR dim head, LP.
Video taken out of context
I understand that many people are upset about this video but it is taken out of the original context for which it is intended. The person who posted this did it unlawfully. The level 1 pack is fully copywrited and a small piece of it, taken out of context, should not be used to bash this wonderful program. Level 1 is about saftey. This horse was becoming nervous about his surroundings and was ignoring the humans around him. He was barging into the personal space of the handler. Linda needed to nip this behavior in the bud before it got too extreme. If she was handeling this horse from the beginning she would have put out these sparks earlier and she would have had to do less. This was not the case here. The horse was being handled by a level 1 student who was in the process of learning saftey techniques and did not have to knowledge nessassary at this time to do less sooner. This horse did not get far enough in the program at this point to defer to his handler as a leader. He was letting his fear of his surroundings rule his brain. Sometimes it takes a lot to override this behavior so that they can forget about their surroundings and focus on you so that you can give them direction and they can think clearly enough to follow it. She needed to match his energy and then some to get his attention off of what was frightening him. Teaching a horse to back up from a distance could save your life a sometime when all they want to do is run and barge into your space run you over or drag you. Please don’t bash this program with out the proper research. It’s just not fair. As this horse got further into the program he became more confident and a better follower as his handler became a better leader for his horse. I learned a lot from this segment in the level 1 pack and I’m glad it was not removed. I am sorry for the grief it has caused Linda at this point though.
[QUOTE=egontoast;4742423]
The video statement with the bulging eyed Lp is very interesting.
She missed an opportunity for damage control there.
Damage control would dictate that you admit you made a mistake in judgement on a particular day and that you would handle it differently today. All her fans would be there with group hugs and more cash if she had done that.
She can’t do that now though, because of her statement. That ego thing can be a bitch.
“CLUNK” to YOUR dim head, LP.[/QUOTE]
The trouble with that, there may be other videos out there that don’t look much different, maybe some recent ones and someone may just bring them forth.:eek:
Having watched them and their instructors work with horses, I don’t think this was an isolated incident.:no:
This way of handling horses roughly at some times seems to have been a part of their theories of training and contrary to what they say they are doing and want to accomplish.
Coming from a horse handling and riding tradition that demanded horses worked for you without any resistences and if they did, you were not doing it right, I never understood making horses overreactive at any time, as part of any handling system.
Horses at times do overreact to our demands with resistences, but if you see that, you change your actions, is not what you want to keep doing, not for so long.
That seems senselessly picking at a horse.
Thank you for putting the galaxy’s forces to rest. everybody agreeing on this thread had me running for cover.
Welcome to the forum, but for future reference, you think you could put a couple paragraphs in there now and then, making it a bit easier to read.
Oh, and I don’t buy it.
I watched it without sound then with sound and then some more and I could not make sense of it.
And the legality of the broadcasting of the video is really not material to the discussion. The Parellies need to take that up with the people from ebaum.
There is NOTHING safe about getting your head wrapped into your lead rope, especially with a horse on the other end of it.
Like I said, I don’t buy it.
Wendyg, I posted this question back a page or so, so I am assuming you did not see it. Please explain to me what a “phase 4 interrupt” is.
Also, please watch this video. It is a bit over nine minutes long and uncut.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo8W2fUjdM4
Do you believe that the absence of ‘context’ makes the riding method in this video acceptable, or at least excusable?
I don’t give a *** what LP THINKS her context is. the horse has no context for her acting out on him.
I agree with the poster about two pages back who thought she looked drunk. That’s the best context for what she’s doing and how she’s doing it and why that’s I’ve seen suggested yet.
Wendyg, nice try but you are telling that load of BS/manure to the wrong bunch of people. You see, over here on CoTH, we actually know what horsemanship is, or is not. We actually know safe, easy, non-abusive ways to communicate with horses. LP most assuredly does not.
I would be willing to bet that the horse already knew how to back up either by voice command or a POLITE request to do so in a format he already understood from past training. The horse was a saint to put up with that abuse. At no time did the horse receive a clear to him (all that matters to the horse, the horse has not read the damn PP manual or whatever) indication of what it was he was supposed to do. That saint of a horse kept trying to guess, and of course every guess was wrong. That is because LP is totally incompetent to declare herself a ‘horse trainer’.
And I still wanna know how come CA is wearing Curly’s hat!!
http://www.mrtruck.net/c_pic/clintanderson.jpg
http://i.rollingstone.com/assets/rs/114/76494/images/00099422.jpg
As usually happens on these lengthy treads, someone is sent in to do damage control.
Horsemen like a heavier hasp on their leadropes because the horse can feel the weight and when it is moved just 6’ the horse knows, say, to halt, back up, turn, come, depending on the direction of the movement of the rope, without taking the wow out of it.
Not to get the pleasure of hearing the “thunk”.
LP’s vibes were up - she was even rude to her student, perhaps a bit nervous herself of this dangerous, unattentive, one-eyed, confused horse.
Oh, and Alagirl - you were close: the expression is a razor in a monkey’s hands! 
I don’t usually trifle with spelling snarks, but “copyright” is one that particularly bugs me.
Besides, as others have said, there is a valid argument that the clip comes under the “fair use” clause, in terms of reviews, education, etc.
Level 1 is about saftey. This horse was becoming nervous about his surroundings and was ignoring the humans around him. He was barging into the personal space of the handler. Linda needed to nip this behavior in the bud before it got too extreme.
Except that she didn’t–she escalated it.
If she was handeling this horse from the beginning she would have put out these sparks earlier and she would have had to do less. This was not the case here. The horse was being handled by a level 1 student who was in the process of learning saftey techniques and did not have to knowledge nessassary at this time to do less sooner.
Actually, the horse looked far less upset and “dangerous” before your idol took over.
This horse did not get far enough in the program at this point to defer to his handler as a leader.
Probably due in no small part to Linda’s failure to lead.
He was letting his fear of his surroundings rule his brain. Sometimes it takes a lot to override this behavior so that they can forget about their surroundings and focus on you so that you can give them direction and they can think clearly enough to follow it. She needed to match his energy and then some to get his attention off of what was frightening him.
Would you likewise calm a frightened screaming child by slapping and yelling at it?
Teaching a horse to back up from a distance could save your life a sometime when all they want to do is run and barge into your space run you over or drag you. Please don’t bash this program with out the proper research.
Pretty broad assumption, that–what makes you so sure that everyone here criticizing this pitiful display hasn’t looked far enough into it to see through it?
It’s just not fair.
No, it isn’t. That horse deserved better than he got.
I’d rather have a monkey with razor around my horse than LP, drunk or sober.
But I was actually referring to the clarity of the ‘aids’ :). A passed out money would have been clearer to understand.
And yes, I showed the first couple minutes to my son, a total blank page in terms of horsemanship.
After I asked him what he thought the horse was supposed to do he said - after a few tries guessing: “No, REALLY, I have no idea! Maybe trotting around in a circle?”
Thankfully he also has no idea, so he just walked off…I think my niece would have been upset, but she has actual knowledge of how to handle a horse, at the tender age of 9…
Exactly
Wendy, I don’t know if this is possible, but I would really like you to consider for a moment that the people who are criticizing this video are (pardon the expression) savvy enough to understand the horse’s behavior and the context of the (again, poor expression) “lesson” being conducted here.
In your rebuttal I recognize phrases such as escalating response, matching energy, etc. Do you understand what they mean and the appropriate use of energy and escalation? I have known many folks who have dabbled or dove wholeheartedly into Parelli, and as a rule the sense of what is APPROPRIATE is missing. It’s as if they were given a toolbox and then start using a hose to pound in a nail.
Fear and flightiness, EVEN IF they result in poor manners, and EVEN IF that is what the horse in the video was showing, should not be matched with energy and aggressiveness. It is possible to protect your personal space without aggression. And most of all, it surely SURELY is possible to reassure and reward a horse without badgering him for a half hour. Please tell me where in that video the horse is asked to DO anything, or given the chance to succeed.
My wish for you, Wendy, would be for you to understand that this is not a pile-on for the hell of it, or because we don’t like to see Poopsie being hit, or because we just don’t like the Parelli enterprise. We don’t like it because it is WRONG. And it could and does get even more wrong in the hands of the acolytes.
