is this really linda parelli?

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

[QUOTE=katarine;4852062]

Never again, I’ve learned my green bean lesson. I’m toast, mentally, trying to teach an adult non horsey beginner how to think like a horse. Hell, no wonder PP’s a millionaire. These folks just have no clue. And don’t seem to be able to get one.
.[/QUOTE]

:yes: Like it or not, the Parellis (and by that, I mean Linda) have found a niche market (read, middle-aged people who always wanted horses as children but never got them) and are exploiting it for all it’s worth.

Now, before y’all jump on me, I will freely admit to being a middle-aged woman who used to be afraid of her horses. But instead of Parelli, I found some trainers IRL whom I respected, and worked with them [for the past ten years] to get a feel for horses. TGiH.

[redears]

[QUOTE=mp;4851983]
It’s called teaching the horse to go forward when you ask. If horse says “no” when you ask him to go forward into the trailer, you establish “go forward” away from the trailer. Then ask him again to go forward into the trailer.

If a horse doesn’t want to stand still (mounting block or no), horse will be allowed to move, but rider says where he moves (e.g., in a small circle) and when he gets to stop. This establishes for horse that it’s better to stand still, as previously asked. They catch on pretty quick to this one, too.

also known as separation anxiety.[/QUOTE]

Horses don’t have separation anxiety, I board at a large boarding facility and they are not turned out together, or in together, they hardly know each other, both just associate the trailer with trail rides or jumping clinics or other things they like to go do.

Thanks for the explanation on the trailer loading and mounting block standing too! I haven’t run into this problem too much but you never know when I will, as I haul a lot for friends.

[MoJo]

[QUOTE=redears;4852776]
Horses don’t have separation anxiety, I board at a large boarding facility and they are not turned out together, or in together, they hardly know each other, both just associate the trailer with trail rides or jumping clinics or other things they like to go do.[/QUOTE]

Redears, what are you talking about? Any animal that forms strong attachments is capable of experiencing separation anxiety. Herd animals all the more.

[jeano]

[QUOTE=pAin’t_Misbehavin’;4852425]
:yes: Like it or not, the Parellis (and by that, I mean Linda) have found a niche market (read, middle-aged people who always wanted horses as children but never got them) and are exploiting it for all it’s worth.

Now, before y’all jump on me, I will freely admit to being a middle-aged woman who used to be afraid of her horses. But instead of Parelli, I found some trainers IRL whom I respected, and worked with them [for the past ten years] to get a feel for horses. TGiH.:)[/QUOTE]

Exactly. They have also found some not so afraid of their horses people willing to shell out the big bucks to become trainers as part of the greater pyramid scheme.
I wasnt aware that the certified pp trainers are actually PROMISED cubic dollars—its interesting, John Lyons for one also requires a stupefying cash outlay for trainers to be certified in his methods.

I am looking forward to witnessing a parelli playday firsthand so I can eyeball more of the demographic than the stereotypical middle aged women afraid of their horses…surely SOMEONE at one of these events will actually be young, carefree, doing amazing stunts bareback and bridleless like the promotional dvds…as opposed to endlessly drilling their bored, zombified horses on the ground.

A couple months ago my mare managed to unsnap the bit hanger on one side of her halter bridle, spit the bit out, and there I was, mounted by the side of a fairly busy road, with nothing more than a very long loop leading from one side of her head and around her neck for steering or brakes. no good place to dismount and regroup, not to mention nowhere to remount (being both of us too fat and old to get on without a handy stump or rock or ditch). Decided, what the hey, its only a quarter mile to the barn, and she knows we’re done for today anyway. Riding buddy thought we’d have to dismount and just lead the beasts home, but I said, nah, she’s cool. Rode her home with neck rein (more or less) and seat of pants and voice cues. She behaved perfectly, we got home in one piece, and my riding buddy and I nodded in agreement, as we always do at these moments, “She needs Parelli!”

[Go_Fish]

[QUOTE=mp;4851983]
It’s called teaching the horse to go forward when you ask. If horse says “no” when you ask him to go forward into the trailer, you establish “go forward” away from the trailer. Then ask him again to go forward into the trailer. [/QUOTE]

It’s actually a little more complicated than that. By making the horse work away from the trailer and letting it rest by the trailer, the horse figures out that the trailer is the place to be. It’s a pretty fail-safe way to train a horse to load. I’ve never had it fail…even the dummies figure it out.

[redears]

[QUOTE=MoJo;4852856]
Redears, what are you talking about? Any animal that forms strong attachments is capable of experiencing separation anxiety. Herd animals all the more.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I meant MY horse doesn’t have separation anxiety, as mp thought. He didn’t stand at the gate because of my mare, he stood at the gate because he saw us fussing with her and thought he’d like to go too.

[ThreeFigs]

So you’re an animal communicator?

[fburton]

[QUOTE=Go Fish;4853163]
It’s actually a little more complicated than that. By making the horse work away from the trailer and letting it rest by the trailer, the horse figures out that the trailer is the place to be. It’s a pretty fail-safe way to train a horse to load. I’ve never had it fail…even the dummies figure it out.[/QUOTE]
Not sure I follow. Letting the horse rest by the trailer (rather than in the trailer) would lead it to believe that “by the trailer” is the place to be, no? So how, when “in the trailer” is the scary place (presumably, otherwise there wouldn’t be a problem loading), does the horse decide that in the trailer is the place to be? Unless one made everywhere outside the trailer a more unpleasant place to be than inside - which is what I have seen Pat Parelli doing. In the videos I watched, he put the horse under unrelenting pressure, relieving it only when the horse is very close to actually going inside the trailer. It was a very crude display, but maybe he has refined his technique since then.

[Beverley]

Trailer loading isn’t a ‘scary trailer’ issue, it’s a leading issue. (The caveat to that being, if a horse who previously hauled well has good reason to NOT want to load, e.g. horrible driving that throws it around, or a too small or slick floored trailer). If a horse has its handler’s number, it won’t go where it doesn’t want to go, plain and simple. So, yeah, under the principle of making the right thing easy and the wrong thing harder work, whirling them about outside the trailer and allowing them relief only when they do go in is an efficient way to overcome the leading issue.

[spirithorse]

It is her majesty and here is her response with the owner

THIS IS HER RESPONSE TO THOSE WHO DO NOT LIKE HER ABUSE OF THE HORSE

If I was seeing this clip with no knowledge of what exactly was going on, I think I would get upset too! It invites a lot of questions if one doesn’t know what the situation or the outcome was.
This horse, Barney, was presenting a lot of challenges to his owner. He was at the Parelli Center in Ocala for a five day Level 1 course over five years ago that we filmed for educational purposes and published in our Level 1 Pack.
On this particular day, it was windy and Barney was terribly spooked. He could not focus on his owner and in fact his behavior was becoming dangerous because he had no awareness for personal space and would run right over you. He also was not fond of humans, and his past ownership experiences had been tough.
In the clip that was posted, Barney was starting to have a lot of trouble with the wind in the trees and bushes. We needed to teach him to move away from the human when asked using the “Driving Game” to move his front end over, but he was so upset he could not yield. All he could think about was running away but this was our chance to change his dangerous habits and give him the confidence in the leadership of a human. We had to get through to him so he could successfully and safely interact with other horses and humans, and I had to increase the intensity until it matched the intensity of his fear, which was dangerously high. The moment he responded, we stopped the stimulus but it required several repetitions before he could do it and finally calmed down.
I have heard accusations that this will make a horse head shy, but the opposite is true. Horses are head shy because they fear the human or because people hit them to punish them. This horse was not afraid of humans, but he didn’t believe in them either. He was respectful in very limited circumstances but as soon as he got worried, he was a force to be reckoned with. Barney was very spooky and dangerous to ride, his history with humans was not positive.
Finally fear subsided and he began to trust the leadership of his human. In fact the next day, he was a very different horse, more confident, more relaxed and more connected to his owner. Together, they completed the course with great results and have gone on to do amazing things.
I have dedicated my life to making the world a better place for horses and humans; to bringing them together in harmony and understanding and solving terrible problems that some horses are sedated or euthanized for, which is not an option for Parelli. This horse was on his way out and finding us was one last piece of hope his owner had. Barney has become so successful that he now HELPS his owner help other people with emotional problems.
When we were producing the Level 1 pack, we debated as to whether or not this footage should be included (the entire piece of course), but decided it should be because some people will be faced with an extreme situation and need to know what to do to solve it for good. Some people use love, love and love on their horses. Others use leadership, leadership, leadership. Neither of them are effective…you need love, language and leadership, in equal measures. When we did all that, this horse finally found understanding and began to trust us, looking to us for safety instead of just running away.
I am glad that some people have asked for an explanation. I appreciate your care and concern, and being interested in learning the facts. I reached out to Paul H., Barney’s owner, and asked how their relationship has grown since spending time at our Center in Ocala and studying Parelli on their own. He sent me the following feedback that I would like to share with you.
Linda Parelli

A letter from the owner:
“I took the time to read one of the threads (Chronicle of the Horse Forum) that sprung up as a result of someone posting footage of Linda and my horse Barney from the Level 1 DVD on the web. I first have to say that I was profoundly saddened by the angry and vicious tone of many of the posts and astounded by the assumptions and judgments that people had about Linda, Barney, and myself as an owner.
Barney spent the first 11 years of his life in a prominent traditional foxhunting barn. He received a corneal scratch in the hunt field that subsequently got infected. When it was determined that the eye couldn’t be saved, his owner requested that he be euthanized. It was only through the actions of a veterinary intern and my search for a local horse to adopt that Barney is even alive today. I met Barney the day after his eye was removed. From the day I met him it was clear that humans were not his preferred company. He avoided people preferring to keep a safe distance. After two years out in a pasture, being fed and handled every day I started to ride him. He was an extraordinarily spirited horse that, while often responsive, always seemed to act out of fear rather than trust or partnership. This was the legacy I inherited and the one that Barney learned and experienced in early life.
My time at the Parelli Center in Ocala during which the DVD was filmed was a challenging and profoundly rewarding time for both Barney and myself. I am grateful for the assistance I received in dealing with a very difficult and potentially dangerous situation captured, in part, on the video and for the subsequent mentorship I receive from Linda and the Parelli team in transforming both my relationship with Barney and Barney’s relationship with the human race. We weren’t on the fast track and I’ve taken lots of missteps but we have continued to grow and learn. We completed our Level 2 some years back. He is semi-retired now but he is my rock steady mount in sport psychology clinics I conduct with other riders, as well as my trusted partner on trail rides both alone and ponying my two young sons.
Barney is still a horse of tremendous spirit. I guess a good way to described the difference now is that his spirit is now shared with me rather than channeled into his fear of me and others. Barney’s relationships with humans has also been transformed. He is now one of the main horses who partner with me in my work in equine assisted psychotherapy. It is amazing to watch as he reaches out to clients time after time, helping to transform their lives. I know I am grateful for what I learned from the Parelli program, and I think anyone who knows Barney will say that he is grateful as well.
All the best from a grateful friend of Parelli.”

• Paul H., Barney’s Owner

[Paragon]

Well, I would ask Paul H. what people SHOULD say when they see a horse being jacked around and smacked in the face.

Good job, that the horse was somehow turned around, but really. We’re not cruel, and we’re not stupid. We just call a spade a spade.

And I don’t feel all that bad about it.

[Alagirl]

yank yank clonk

what a bunch of hooey.

Dear Paul H. if you are still reading this:

It’s bullpoop, front to back.
There are REAL trainers out there who can do this without abusing a horse.

[redears]

[QUOTE=Beasmom;4854431]
So you’re an animal communicator?[/QUOTE]

Don’t have to be an animal communicator to know a horse I’ve owned since the day he was born. Like I mentioned before, my horses aren’t pastured together (one is a mare and one is a gelding and most barns separate) and in the last seven years since I’ve had my young one, they have only been pastured together briefly, they aren’t particular attached. If he had separation anxiety to my mare, I’m sure he would fuss all the time rather than this one time.

[Beverley]

Dear Linda P and Paul H,

Your responses are a reflection of your utter lack of horsemanship and knowledge.

Barney did fine in spite of you, certainly not because of you.

You are both clueless when it comes to understanding and communicating with horses.

Come on out and ride with me- a rank amateur with 5 decades of experience- any old time. I won’t charge you a dime, you won’t have to be a member of the Savvy club, and you can see what REAL communication and understanding are about.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=Beverley;4854939]
Trailer loading isn’t a ‘scary trailer’ issue, it’s a leading issue. (The caveat to that being, if a horse who previously hauled well has good reason to NOT want to load, e.g. horrible driving that throws it around, or a too small or slick floored trailer). If a horse has its handler’s number, it won’t go where it doesn’t want to go, plain and simple. So, yeah, under the principle of making the right thing easy and the wrong thing harder work, whirling them about outside the trailer and allowing them relief only when they do go in is an efficient way to overcome the leading issue.[/QUOTE]

Thank you very much for emphasizing this basic principle!!!

If more people understood and employed it there would be a lot fewer posts on “how do I get my horse to load?”

G.

[fburton]

I respectfully offer another point of view…

@Beverley;4854939

Trailer loading isn’t a ‘scary trailer’ issue, it’s a leading issue.

I wholeheartedly agree that it is essential that a horse learns to lead reliably as a prerequisite to reliable loading. The main part of leading is of course learning to yield to pressure through the leadrope and halter.

(The caveat to that being, if a horse who previously hauled well has good reason to NOT want to load, e.g. horrible driving that throws it around, or a too small or slick floored trailer).

That certainly won’t help. Even without such experiences, however, many horses are fearful enough of entering a small, dark, enclosed space with more or less wobbly footing and feel safer staying outside that they offer significant resistance to being loaded. Not wanting to go in the trailer is a clear indication that it is indeed a ‘scary’ issue. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with the horse wanting to ‘get one up on’ the handler, and I consider that view to be highly anthropomorphic.

If a horse has its handler’s number, it won’t go where it doesn’t want to go, plain and simple.

It certainly doesn’t help if the handler is lacking in confidence, ineffectual, unclear, dithery, insensitive, etc. Loading offers lots of potential opportunities for a horse to learn new evasions, and also for fear to escalate. A good handler will recognize and avoid these traps.

So, yeah, under the principle of making the right thing easy and the wrong thing harder work, whirling them about outside the trailer and allowing them relief only when they do go in is an efficient way to overcome the leading issue.

It is one way that works - I will give you that - but I wouldn’t describe it as efficient, any more than I would describe Linda Parelli’s handling of Barney ‘efficient’. Personally, I consider it a bit of a blunderbuss approach.

[Graymaresrule]

@spirithorse;4854995

From LP:
I have heard accusations that this will make a horse head shy, but the opposite is true. Horses are head shy because they fear the human or because people hit them to punish them.

So the horse is supposed to differentiate between a blow to the head that is meant to get his attention and one that is dealt as a punishment?

[Alagirl]

@carolprudm;4855523

So the horse is supposed to differentiate between a blow to the head that is meant to get his attention and one that is dealt as a punishment?

Why not, it is - after all - smarter than it’s handlers…

[Graymaresrule]

@Alagirl;4855530

Why not, it is - after all - smarter than it’s handlers…

In Barney’s case I have to agree:lol:

[Bluey]

No matter how anyone may want to spin what happened in that video, anyone with any horse sense at all can tell that was very bad training, showing terrible timing and confused training principles.:no:

Easy to see that, just look at the horse and how he responds.
Whatever happened before or after is moot question, really, because that video in itself was a training opportunity where too much was not going right.
At the end, horse and handlers were still confused, that was plain to see.

Sorry, you can talk for hours about what you think you want, it takes a few seconds for the horse to tell us if we are making sense and are right for that horse.
In my humble opinion, that was obviously not happening there, at all.

Terrible example of training and worse, it was sold in an instructional video as “good” training and they are still trying to defend it?:rolleyes:

I think the rest of the world are not the ones not getting what is going on in that video.
Sure, this is just one video and all of us have bad moments, but at least we own to them, don’t try to tell the world they don’t know what they are seeing.