WOW and some think “clunking” is severe. Guess some think Barney should have just been put down.
response by LP & Barney’s owner
If I was seeing this clip with no knowledge of what exactly was going on, I think I would get upset too! It invites a lot of questions if one doesn’t know what the situation or the outcome was.
This horse, Barney, was presenting a lot of challenges to his owner. He was at the Parelli Center in Ocala for a five day Level 1 course over five years ago that we filmed for educational purposes and published in our Level 1 Pack.
On this particular day, it was windy and Barney was terribly spooked. He could not focus on his owner and in fact his behavior was becoming dangerous because he had no awareness for personal space and would run right over you. He also was not fond of humans, and his past ownership experiences had been tough.
In the clip that was posted, Barney was starting to have a lot of trouble with the wind in the trees and bushes. We needed to teach him to move away from the human when asked using the “Driving Game” to move his front end over, but he was so upset he could not yield. All he could think about was running away but this was our chance to change his dangerous habits and give him the confidence in the leadership of a human. We had to get through to him so he could successfully and safely interact with other horses and humans, and I had to increase the intensity until it matched the intensity of his fear, which was dangerously high. The moment he responded, we stopped the stimulus but it required several repetitions before he could do it and finally calmed down.
I have heard accusations that this will make a horse head shy, but the opposite is true. Horses are head shy because they fear the human or because people hit them to punish them. This horse was not afraid of humans, but he didn’t believe in them either. He was respectful in very limited circumstances but as soon as he got worried, he was a force to be reckoned with. Barney was very spooky and dangerous to ride, his history with humans was not positive.
Finally fear subsided and he began to trust the leadership of his human. In fact the next day, he was a very different horse, more confident, more relaxed and more connected to his owner. Together, they completed the course with great results and have gone on to do amazing things.
I have dedicated my life to making the world a better place for horses and humans; to bringing them together in harmony and understanding and solving terrible problems that some horses are sedated or euthanized for, which is not an option for Parelli. This horse was on his way out and finding us was one last piece of hope his owner had. Barney has become so successful that he now HELPS his owner help other people with emotional problems.
When we were producing the Level 1 pack, we debated as to whether or not this footage should be included (the entire piece of course), but decided it should be because some people will be faced with an extreme situation and need to know what to do to solve it for good. Some people use love, love and love on their horses. Others use leadership, leadership, leadership. Neither of them are effective…you need love, language and leadership, in equal measures. When we did all that, this horse finally found understanding and began to trust us, looking to us for safety instead of just running away.
I am glad that some people have asked for an explanation. I appreciate your care and concern, and being interested in learning the facts. I reached out to Paul H., Barney’s owner, and asked how their relationship has grown since spending time at our Center in Ocala and studying Parelli on their own. He sent me the following feedback that I would like to share with you.
Linda Parelli
A letter from the owner:
“I took the time to read one of the threads (Chronicle of the Horse Forum) that sprung up as a result of someone posting footage of Linda and my horse Barney from the Level 1 DVD on the web. I first have to say that I was profoundly saddened by the angry and vicious tone of many of the posts and astounded by the assumptions and judgments that people had about Linda, Barney, and myself as an owner.
Barney spent the first 11 years of his life in a prominent traditional foxhunting barn. He received a corneal scratch in the hunt field that subsequently got infected. When it was determined that the eye couldn’t be saved, his owner requested that he be euthanized. It was only through the actions of a veterinary intern and my search for a local horse to adopt that Barney is even alive today. I met Barney the day after his eye was removed. From the day I met him it was clear that humans were not his preferred company. He avoided people preferring to keep a safe distance. After two years out in a pasture, being fed and handled every day I started to ride him. He was an extraordinarily spirited horse that, while often responsive, always seemed to act out of fear rather than trust or partnership. This was the legacy I inherited and the one that Barney learned and experienced in early life.
My time at the Parelli Center in Ocala during which the DVD was filmed was a challenging and profoundly rewarding time for both Barney and myself. I am grateful for the assistance I received in dealing with a very difficult and potentially dangerous situation captured, in part, on the video and for the subsequent mentorship I receive from Linda and the Parelli team in transforming both my relationship with Barney and Barney’s relationship with the human race. We weren’t on the fast track and I’ve taken lots of missteps but we have continued to grow and learn. We completed our Level 2 some years back. He is semi-retired now but he is my rock steady mount in sport psychology clinics I conduct with other riders, as well as my trusted partner on trail rides both alone and ponying my two young sons.
Barney is still a horse of tremendous spirit. I guess a good way to described the difference now is that his spirit is now shared with me rather than channeled into his fear of me and others. Barney’s relationships with humans has also been transformed. He is now one of the main horses who partner with me in my work in equine assisted psychotherapy. It is amazing to watch as he reaches out to clients time after time, helping to transform their lives. I know I am grateful for what I learned from the Parelli program, and I think anyone who knows Barney will say that he is grateful as well.
All the best from a grateful friend of Parelli.”
- Paul H., Barney’s Owner
[QUOTE=7HL;5575890]
Opinion does not make it fact.[/QUOTE]
So are you saying it isn’t even possible to assess, in an objective way, how a person treats a horse? That handling is abusive or violent can never be shown in fact because the abusiveness or violence is always necessarily a matter of opinion (even when hitting is involved), right?
.
Opinions by many don’t make them necessarily right or wrong.
There are many opinions shared by different people about horses , from slaughter to shoes/barefoot that many of us will never agree on. That is a fact.
As for training techniques I find internet discussion forums in general at the bottom of my resources. Even discussion forums run by trainers/clinicians have a wide spectrum of opinions on the training programs that particular trainer teaches.
Those that follow “any” trainer/clinician blindly without question are fools. And there are plenty of fools that have horses. Some seek out trainers for a variety of reasons, from answers, to cures & fixes, to just because their friend uses that trainer.
Some think certain bits are abusive. Some think spurs are abusive. Some think laying a horse down or hobbles are as well. Some think Futurities are appalling. Some hate everything to do with the Race Horse Industry. There is someone somewhere that will call them all and more abuse.
[QUOTE=7HL;5575928]
Some think certain bits are abusive. Some think spurs are abusive. Some think laying a horse down or hobbles are as well. Some think Futurities are appalling. Some hate everything to do with the Race Horse Industry. There is someone somewhere that will call them all and more abuse.[/QUOTE]
Nonsense.
We are talking here about pure bad horse training in any discipline or training method you may want to mention.
Pure, bad timing, horses not understanding, bad training continuing senselessly, that is what is shown in that video.
That is not a question of not liking the techniques in themselves, that are questionable already as a bit rough, but the way they are taught and shown, ANYONE with any horse sense can see that is pure - bad - training.
Maybe but the owner had no problems.
[QUOTE=7HL;5575984]
Maybe but the owner had no problems.[/QUOTE]
Not all owners are created equal.
Some spent their entire childhoods in barns, participating in Pony Club or 4H learning from a myriad of knowledgeable horsemen and as adults have a vast knowledge base to draw from.
Others played with Breyers and daydreamed of taming a Mustang with love.
Then there are the vast majority in the middle somewhere.
Too many people don’t know what they don’t know, and that can hurt their horses.
IMO if what you are doing does not teach the horse anything or is not clear to the horse after a try or 2, and anyone who saw this video can see Barney is just completely confused about why he is being thunked in the chin and WTH he’s being asked to do, then it’s stupid to keep doing it. And to keep doing it and doing it and doing it while the horse is still confused, yes, IMO, is abusive.
Why is it that anytime this team gets called on something they always have a long-winded explaination of their actions? From Linda’s answer to why she doesn’t think she needs a helmet to Barney to the scene at the British Equifest. They never make a mistake or a wrong decision? If only we could all be so right all of the time.
Because then their lemmings would not know what to do with themselves. Cult leaders never admit mistakes.
Just my opinion but I think 7HL gets snotty and nasty in these threads just so they will be closed. It is part of his ‘protect the PP experience at all cost’ approach.
All the Peps have to do is check out the other thread about bit progression and what real western training is and it would show what holes they have in their knowledge.
…and a h*lluva lot cheaper, even with custom made bits or Reinsmen.
Some people are just pot-stirrers and enojoy watching the show instead of actually learning.
[QUOTE=anuphillbattle;5575627]
Frankly, I had horses a long time before Parelli and ONLY went because Karen and Bruce Davidson were with the Parellis in FL MANY years ago. .[/QUOTE]
I’m pretty sure you mean Karen and David O’Connor although, even though Bruce has mellowed with age, I might like to see Bruce with Parelli for as long as Parelli could take the heat…lol.
We all view methods differntly and have differing opinions.
This is all that counts.
A letter from the owner:
“I took the time to read one of the threads (Chronicle of the Horse Forum) that sprung up as a result of someone posting footage of Linda and my horse Barney from the Level 1 DVD on the web. I first have to say that I was profoundly saddened by the angry and vicious tone of many of the posts and astounded by the assumptions and judgments that people had about Linda, Barney, and myself as an owner.
Barney spent the first 11 years of his life in a prominent traditional foxhunting barn. He received a corneal scratch in the hunt field that subsequently got infected. When it was determined that the eye couldn’t be saved, his owner requested that he be euthanized. It was only through the actions of a veterinary intern and my search for a local horse to adopt that Barney is even alive today. I met Barney the day after his eye was removed. From the day I met him it was clear that humans were not his preferred company. He avoided people preferring to keep a safe distance. After two years out in a pasture, being fed and handled every day I started to ride him. He was an extraordinarily spirited horse that, while often responsive, always seemed to act out of fear rather than trust or partnership. This was the legacy I inherited and the one that Barney learned and experienced in early life.
My time at the Parelli Center in Ocala during which the DVD was filmed was a challenging and profoundly rewarding time for both Barney and myself. I am grateful for the assistance I received in dealing with a very difficult and potentially dangerous situation captured, in part, on the video and for the subsequent mentorship I receive from Linda and the Parelli team in transforming both my relationship with Barney and Barney’s relationship with the human race. We weren’t on the fast track and I’ve taken lots of missteps but we have continued to grow and learn. We completed our Level 2 some years back. He is semi-retired now but he is my rock steady mount in sport psychology clinics I conduct with other riders, as well as my trusted partner on trail rides both alone and ponying my two young sons.
Barney is still a horse of tremendous spirit. I guess a good way to described the difference now is that his spirit is now shared with me rather than channeled into his fear of me and others. Barney’s relationships with humans has also been transformed. He is now one of the main horses who partner with me in my work in equine assisted psychotherapy. It is amazing to watch as he reaches out to clients time after time, helping to transform their lives. I know I am grateful for what I learned from the Parelli program, and I think anyone who knows Barney will say that he is grateful as well.
All the best from a grateful friend of Parelli.”
- Paul H., Barney’s Owner
[QUOTE=trubandloki;5576415]
Just my opinion but I think 7HL gets snotty and nasty in these threads just so they will be closed. It is part of his ‘protect the PP experience at all cost’ approach.[/QUOTE]
I thought it was so we could constantly be reminded of Jr High and am amazed at the degree to which people are willing to engage him.
[QUOTE=7HL;5575921]
.
As for training techniques I find internet discussion forums in general at the bottom of my resources. Even discussion forums run by trainers/clinicians have a wide spectrum of opinions on the training programs that particular trainer teaches.
Those that follow “any” trainer/clinician blindly without question are fools. And there are plenty of fools that have horses. Some seek out trainers for a variety of reasons, from answers, to cures & fixes, to just because their friend uses that trainer.[/QUOTE]
If internet discussions boards are at the bottom of the list, why is it that you invest so much of your time here defending the Parellis and their method? Given that you appear to be a blind follower of the Parellis I guess you just called yourself a fool, without question.
I watched the PNH “Master Class” show on RFD last night. The promo said it was Mrs. Parelli taking a lesson from Walter Zettl. But it only showed about 30 seconds of WZ talking to the audience and another 30 seconds of tape edited together of her riding.
The rest of the show involved two PNH students doing a sort of freestyle and Pat Parelli and someone else scoring them – 35% on relationship to the horse; 35% on how they use the games; and 30% on how they use the arena. Or something like that.
It was interesting. They mostly did groundwork and then rode bareback. The horses looked a little stiff to me, but the handlers were good. They both scored 100%. But it seemed to be about showmanship more than anything else.
That was underscored by Pat Parelli showing one of the girls how to longe her horse (aka the circle game) and coil up her rope at the same time. Here’s how it’s done: You let the horse all the way out on the rope and put the end under your feet. Then, as the horse goes round and round, you alternate lifting your heels and toes to coil up the rope.
PP ended up with the rope wrapped around him, which he found hugely amusing. Off the charts stupid and an accident waiting to happen, if you ask me. But no one did. 
So the owner is a koolaid swigging twit.
Heaven knows, I am not above reaching for the stick and wailing on a misbehaving hoofer, but I said it before, I say it again (and again if needed): If I had ever, in my wildest dreams, even considered to treat a horse in that manner, I would have been very quicklike been on the receiving end of the wiggle clunk and grounded from touching said horse until I learned how to behave around it in a civilized manner.
And no, nothing treehugging, bleeding heart going on, just good old fashioned horsemanship, handed down from generations of people who genuinly loved the horses in their charge with whom they made a living farming.
Unlike people, horses do have the ability to observe their handler while looking at something else. It’s how they survived on the steppes…
The videos of Barny, or that saintly gray and especially the Catwalk event are beyond disgusting.
But then again… old Barney was ‘rescued’ from an evil foxhunter…what else is there to say.
So many “bashers” follow in cult like goosestep that they accuse others of doing.
Keep the thread open…why should I care if this closes or not? If this one closes another will open up, because some just can’t help themselves.
They didn’t have a problem with the Koolaid at Jonestown either.
In the horse world there are many opinions, methods and views on what is “correct”.
