I beleive it is Australia?
“he certainly wasn’t mean, but he was scared and on high alert all the time and had no idea that there was even a person attached to the lead rope.”
Hint: If a horse is missing a left eye, walk on his right side. If a horse is missing a right eye, walk on his left side. Make him focus on you when leading -and learn to trust you.
What I saw was fairly shocking. It has stayed with me since yesterday when I watched it. It wasn’t just poor training, it bordered on inhumane and abusive. It had no beginning, or end and made no sense.
Now there is another thread out there about the PP competition team competing in dressage and it was brought up how they are always “picked on.” It occurred to me that they are picked on for two reasons: 1) they do stuff like this, film it, promote and expect their students to do this too. This is not horsemanship! Even in skilled hands, this technique is abusive, let alone in the hands of a unskilled person. 2) They are making the big bucks by taking advantage of the beginner’s market. We have all seen and heard about the trainwrecks, the $$$ spent on merchandise is way over priced and that isn’t used, etc. Much of what they sell is frankly, snake oil.
People react to this. It isn’t that all PP techniques are bad or all people who have used some of the techniques are bad. I have seen PP demostrate his abilities at an Expo -he is a good trainer!
But the PP marketing team is crass, self-promoting and what they have to sell contains a lot of snake oil as well as being dangerous/abusive. I get tired of trying to help newbies understand that really, there are other methods out there and that they will work much, much better.
So, does PP team get picked on. YES!
Is there a good reason why? YES!
[QUOTE=sisu27;4723883]
Here is a response (edited) to the video from a Parelli believer:
"this is natural horsemanship at its best… the problem with people is that they think natural horsemanship means softness and not being tough… its not at all… Linda is doing everything right… U have to match a horses’ aggression or meet their response with the same level of aggression. she did nothing in this video that another horse wouldn’t do in the field with this bay. horses weigh a lot - people cannot manhandle them cause a horse is too strong so you have to do whatever it takes to get their attention… that is true natural horsemanship - meeting the horses’ aggression with what they understand… otherwise he was going to walk all over her… do u understand what i’m saying… this is nothing to some things i’ve done to horses… some mares think they are the lead mare so they are nasty and i have had to get worse than this in their face… i have to dominate them literally using my arms, legs, body etc… remember - u have to match the aggression of the horse… and if your hand hits them in the face then that is their problem - their head was in the wrong space… This horse has no respect for Linda or her space… she had to make him understand her in a language he understands… he understands horseplay and aggression…
this is a great video - share my comments please - people need to understand that natural horsemanship is NOT a subtle Ask - you want to get to a subtle ask but to get there you have to sometimes have a FIRM TELL… kick, bare your teeth, rear, swish your tail… "[/QUOTE]
I am not sure what is scarier…The positive remarks on LP’s “training” or the illiteracy of the writer which proves the complete failure of our educational system. :no:
either way i am scared witless right now!
No I was too lcw… I was like cripe if that horse clobbered her right now I’d not feel sorry for her at all…
Why the hell was she hitting him in the face? And how many times can she shank on him? And then all the snapping the line at him, but yanking on his face when he moves. W T F.
She just doesn’t quit even when the horse is standing there saying “what do you want?”
ABSOLUTELY IDIOTIC I hope she meets her match someday.
Precisely.
No sense of timing at all.
The owner had had the horse for less than a year before he took the horse to that clinic.
If you look at another thread I started last week (training woes…) you would see that my website is grossly outdated and I jumped off the bandwagon years ago.
Not defending anything, just sharing more information, as I do personally know the horse and owner.
These people aren’t horseman, horseman understand horses. Horses are just the animal they have chosen to “train”, could have been dogs or elephants. Although I believe if it had been elephants they wouldn’t be around to sell their brand of stupid anymore.
I’m another one who doesn’t want my horse treating me like another horse, I’m a human and the rules are different.
[QUOTE=tkhawk;4723934]
I am not sure if she was joking or not. I would not wan’t my horse to treat me like another horse-I wan’t to it to treat me like a human. It is a different equation. Pasture horses can bite, kick and take chunks of flesh out of each other while trying to dominate and establish a hierarchy. That is not the level I wan’t to connect to-for I will loose. There are so many time tested methods that can make it easier.[/QUOTE]
Wise words! I think the whole idea of relating to a horse the way another horse would is where “Natural Horsemanship” goes so wrong. We are humans and the best favor you can ever do for your horse is to make darn sure he understands that. And that you are his “boss” in all situations.
The horse in the video is very “tuned-out” to people and needs to be “tuned-in” to be safe to be around. But the LP method is just confusing and bewildering the horse. In fact she is just making him “tune-out” even more. And get very defensive as well. I don’t know how long this session actually was, but a good handler could have tuned this poor horse in in about 5 minutes.
I am always amazed at what people will put up with on the ground from a horse and then wonder why he is also difficult under saddle.
Throw away those rope halters and mile long leads. Get a good leather halter, a decent lead shank, and a dressage whip and teach your horse what is expected on the ground. It really isn’t rocket surgery.
The problem is not in the choice of halter and lead rope. It’s in the asshat attached to it, NoDQ. That’s not rocket science either 
[QUOTE=alteringwego;4722960]
Let me preface this by saying that I am not a Parelli follower or any other NH guru of the moment, gaining fame by some elaborate marketing scheme.
But… after reading the comments here I was expecting some horrible beating with a carrot stick or whacking him on the head in an abusive fashion. Instead, I saw a very dull, distracted horse with no respect for his handler, surroundings, or her space. LP did follow through with her ‘games’/logic of getting the horse to move away from her with as little force as possible. This horse was too distracted and that becomes dangerous. Especially when this horse doesn’t even bother to look at his handler. And I’m not opposed to the hand smacking (I think she was whacking him behind the jaw on the very fleshy area- doesn’t hurt the horse and obviously he isn’t too concerned by it or he would have reacted- he barely moves.
Horses like this are frustrating and dangerous, even more so undersaddle.
I’m not saying that I totally agree with what she’s doing but I’m not going to criticize her harshly.[/QUOTE]
What I saw was a horse who had no earthly clue what his idiot handler was asking him to do. She should not be called a trainer- she’s a disgrace.
I use pieces and parts of “natural horsemanship”, having discarded the stuff that doesn’t work for me. For example, I hate having my horse walk behind me. And while I don’t mind having the horse turn in to me (disengage the haunches) when I halt him on the longe line, I make sure to teach him to halt on the circle too. He may get training from traditional trainers in the future and I don’t want my good money going to undo a behavior! Oh, and no rope wiggling… I tried it a few times and the horse, understandably, threw his/her head in the air. Not what I want.
But I have to comment on all this “treat your horse like another horse would” crap. We’re the ones with the big brains (with some notable exceptions). I will NOT bite and kick and swish my non-existent tail. I think this all started because one of the tenets of NH is to understand and respect a horse’s body language. I’m fine with learning to move my horse with subtle body cues; for example, NH helped me realize I was getting in front of my horse when longeing so the horse was inclined to stop. I like to think of NH as putting pressure on and taking it off to facilitate a horse’s understanding of what you’re asking. I do NOT wish to engage in a battle of strength or temper.
That’s just stupid, as this video proves. When I watch a SKILLED practitioner, whether he/she is traditional or NH, it is clear what is being asked from the way the person is moving and what partial responses are rewarded. I saw no reward at all in this video until she clapped him on the neck at the end like she was beating a rug.
I have been taught to never meet with resistance with resistance, because all you do is create more resistance. The idea is to break the pattern. That is, of course, assuming you are asking clearly and correctly and in a non abusive way.
Good way of putting it. I’ve seen my cowboy friend tap a horse’s jaw with the side of his hand, so it can see his whole hand but he controls exactly where he’s tapping. It’s just a very direct way to reinforce the “get out of my space” message. But you don’t do it as a flat-handed slap and NOT on a one-eyed horse, FFS!
And that amount of pressure is immediately reduced to ZERO when the horse complies or even tries to comply. Then you go for less and less pressure to get the same movement, until all you have to do is step toward the horse “with a purpose” and he moves. It’s that timing and release that LP was missing in all her hissy-fittedness.
I saw no reward at all in this video until she clapped him on the neck at the end like she was beating a rug.
:lol: Very apt.
Dear Horse,
Please kick her in the head, stomp on her, and go your merry way. Contact anyone on the COTH forum: we will come and get you.
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
will send it to WAZ if no one else has. i don’t want to inundate him with a million of the same emails but i do think he should see it.
Please post his e-mail :yes:
I can’t see it, I’m at work-but I have always felt that there was more to Linda that put’s forth on the ‘tellie’.
I totally agree with the ‘douchbag’ reply.:lol:
That is of course assuming you asked…
is this video on youtube anywhere? I can’t view the ebaumsworld link from my phone and it’s making me nuts.
Yeah as I was watching I kept wondering what WAZ would think… given his association with them… (is he still partnering with them??) Having seen him teach a few times and being somewhat familiar with his methodology I think he’d be :eek:
I doubt it, I bet it would be flagged by the Savy Club before the pixels settled good…I waded through a few searches but didn’t find it…
Love to know what W Zettl would think of this but I expect he will not comment.
