[QUOTE=AliveandKicking;5133880]
People over here probably like that circus. They didn’t see (for example) that the pirouette’s of Fuego XII are a disaster, and Manuel lost many points on the technical part of his test.
And it seems that the No Halt and Salut is also forgotten :lol:[/QUOTE]
BBM
What does that mean? Who are you referring to?
Does anyone have the comparative artistic and technical marks of Gal and Diaz? I would very much like to know because the short glimpse I had indicated that one of the judges actually gave Gal a 97(!!) for artistry (!!!). I have no problem with Gal’s ride being scored through the roof technically (or Diaz receiving a zero for that final “halt”), but unless my ‘glimpse’ was misleading, Diaz (and many others) were robbed in the artistic scoring while Gal received some exceedingly generous gifts. Someone please correct me-- or better yet, post those scores??
IMO, finding appropriate standards/directives for scoring the artistic side of kurs is still very much a work in progress: good choreography should be exciting and moving to watch, not merely an opportunity to showcase one’s technical strengths while minimizing weaknesses.
[QUOTE=subk;5133975]
This description is scarily similar to a really big Tennessee Walking Horse class. Focusing on expressive, exuberant front end movement is pretty much what the THW industry does.[/QUOTE]
Yes, because a non-padded, non-sored, super fit, and non-chained dressage horse is exactly the same as a TWH show horse.
I can see why Toto scored higher than Fuego; he just oozes through his test with such ease. But Fuego really did sparkle. I think he’s exactly what dressage needs… no offense to DQs around the world, but your discipline is boring as can be to spectators… even other horse people. You throw in a horse like Fuego… obviously the audience became MUCH more interested.
Did the one-arm tempis belong… I dunno. According to dressage purists, I’m sure they didn’t. But they sure were cool to see, and I don’t think anyone in that stadium last night regrets being present for Fuego’s performance.
[QUOTE=Across Sicily;5134160]
Yes, because a non-padded, non-sored, super fit, and non-chained dressage horse is exactly the same as a TWH show horse.[/QUOTE]
Not yet at least…
Had front row center seat - it’s an experience I will cherish for the rest of my life - JOYFUL INDEED!!!
You just had to be there to appreciate it. The arena was electric! Whoever said that Andalusian prices would be going up was right. I have a PRE stallion, and I have seen him stop traffic just walking to the arena. They have real personalities, and it shines through. And they love their “people”.
And this is where I start again on my own little personal, futile, campaign:
I think dressage should award two sets of individual medals at WEG and Olympics.
Rider can choose to compete for the Test Dressage medal. Based as it used to be, on GP and GPS. (Wouild like to see more movements to test change of frame but thats a different campaign…)
Or rider can compete for Freestyle Dressage medal. Rules would bee loosened and innovation, harmony and artistry more emphasized. Freestyle alone would count for the medal after qualifying though GP.
I miss the early days of freestyle when it seemed there was so much more risk-taking and crowd pleasing rides. So many rides now seem to go for the technical points by riding to manufactured-for-the-horse music in a very test-like fashion.
[QUOTE=SueL;5133899]
Everyone knows I adore Toto for his generous mind. 
Think I can put Fuego there too. That horse tries his heart out.
If you want more extension in the gaits, you need to look at Mistral Horjis and Ravel - they are different builds from the previous pair and their gaits show it. Me, I like all of them, in all of their differences. They are super special horses.
We’re going to see some great head-to-head battles in the near future.
Sue[/QUOTE]
Well said
i have watched these rides several times today… and i want to comment that:
a) while i agree Fuego could be more relaxed in his neck, he has an very short back and i am not sure he could bend much more than he was doing…
b) he is a spanish horse and they are bred to have a quicker tempo… so i am not sure how much slower his tempo could be before his trot fell apart.
c) we need to be educated enough to see what is inherent is each horse and not expect a Baroque horse to have a WB elasticity or stride length.
d) i thought his piaffes were really really good. and you could tell the difference between his trots. and, he was so forward!
i put together a collage of a few Totilas and Fuego pics and it is amazing how similar they are…
i dont agree that Fuego doesn’t engage - he does very well - or at least as well are Totilas and sometimes better.
this shows that Fuego is indeed tight in the neck, but he isnt btv, or low - he was very very uphill. it would be fun to watch a split screen of the GP or special
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=554315&l=1a44a832a5&id=100000097655253
The Diaz / Fuego ride was amazing. I gotta say, even my non-horsey boyfriend was awed by that ride last night!
The whole thing seemed very classical, if you ask me. I loved that he took up all four reins in one hand, too. Again, very much in the classical school there!
I was super pleased to see a Baroque breed competing so well, too. I wish we saw more of them to break the endless string of warmbloods!
Personally, it’s my opinion that his scores were way too low for the performance rendered. However, my opinion has no bearing on the preferences of the judges… and well, that’s just the way things are.
Does anyone know more about the rider, Juan Manuel Munoz Diaz? I did some cursory googling, but didn’t come up with much info on his background. Love to find out more about him!
[QUOTE=Across Sicily;5134160]
Did the one-arm tempis belong… I dunno. According to dressage purists, I’m sure they didn’t. But they sure were cool to see, and I don’t think anyone in that stadium last night regrets being present for Fuego’s performance.[/QUOTE]
I saw those and the first thing that came to mind was that it was very fitting…one handed is very Spanish riding school 
The showmanship however, probably not appreciated so much by the judges. Which is sad because a lot of the freestyles caused me to yawn…
It was clear from the moment he walked in the ring that both he and the horse were set to bring down the house (I can’t say I’ve ever seen anyone do an entire longside of tempis in their warmup lap before!). I’d bet that Juan knew that he was not going to medal, so went in and put in a ride that would get his horse the recognition that he deserves even if he didn’t end up on the podium. He did that for sure! It was almost sad to watch Totilas walk in the ring after! Watching Toto was the thing I was most excited about going to WEG, but I (and the majority of the rest of the crowd) barely noticed when he walked into the arena. Everyone on the podium deserved to be there. And while it would have been cool to see someone unexpected up there, that would have bumped us off, so I’m ok with the results
I just watched it and I see a tense, occasionally flailing front end, handsy rider, tense, anticipating horse. Did I mention tense ? Andi’s rock the canter, but his trots are not all that, they just aren’t.
I don’t doubt he was dynamic and the one handed tempi changes were GREAT fun, yes- but they don’t overcome some almost TWH esgue walking and flaily trots. he is LOVELY. but he’s not the winner.
I too can’t see how MBM is moved to near epic tremors of love, but loathes Totilas, they share an exuberant front end, these horses.
PREFACE: I ride showjumpers, and know 0 about dressage. That said . . .
TOTILAS IS BORING. Sorry DQ’s, but he is. I found myself checking my phone during his test, despite my excitement to see this supposedly awesome horse go. His test was manufactured, passionless, and mechanical. The crowd’s reception was muted at best. And the rear/spook at K while still garnering a 91% . . . Well, I won’t say anything, since I was already snapped at by the lady in front of me last night that it’s not a test, so not every step is judged, but somehow a 91% just didn’t seem quite right . . .
Fuego XII, on the other hand . . . what show! What a horse! He was having fun, and you could tell. The crowd couldn’t stay in their seats. I was actually excited about dressage! I liked dressage! For 5 fleeting minutes, I realized there was more than trot, turn, extend, turn, tempi, tempi, pirouette, tempi . . . There was harmony! There was passion! There was fun! And then . . . there was politics.
Ah well. Fuego’s test was worth my entry ticket, and while I’ll never go watch another dressage show again, I will cherish that memory forever. Totilas . . . you all can have him.
Fuego=short in the neck. You cannot get past this, in all of the movements, and regardless of his flambouyance, and inherent pizzazz, it is going to be scored accordingly.
I just got back from DAD. Very boring without the riders who are in Lexington…
[QUOTE=ASB Stars;5134273]
Fuego=short in the neck. You cannot get past this, in all of the movements, and regardless of his flambouyance, and inherent pizzazz, it is going to be scored accordingly.
I just got back from DAD. Very boring without the riders who are in Lexington…[/QUOTE]
Might want to study up on the breed.
[QUOTE=kwmred;5133999]
Who wrote that article? Just curious… don’t want to call anyone on this board a bad name.[/QUOTE]
Here’s her email, from that website: charlotte@horse2rider.eu
And her name: Charlotte Mogensen
And: http://www.smartgear.org/about_smargear/judges_09/charlotte_mogensen/
I’m an eventing person, and we all know what they say about jacks of all trades…but apparently she’s an expert in fisheries. But maybe that’s not the right person. They look similar, but everyone has a doppelganger, so they say.
That being said, and again, acknowledging that dressage is not my thing, I thought Fuego was magnificent.
Glorious to watch. And yes, I thought the one handed tempis were very reminiscent of the photos I’ve seen of the Spanish Riding School.
Weren’t they somewhat influential in the development of dressage?
Just found a really good quality video of Fuego XII’s Kur from last night:
Whoever put this together took out all the crowd noise which I kinda liked hearing, but it’s beautiful to watch.
Oh well, can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong with the insert link thingy.
[QUOTE=yaya;5132885]
It wasn’t the judge at B being booed, it was all the scores being booed. They were all too low!
Very interesting that almost everyone stayed seated after Totilas’ test. It was almost a letdown after the exuberance of Fuego’s test.[/QUOTE]
I posted this on the other thread (on the dressage board) and I’ll say it here too.
The Spanish horse had the audience spellbound. The ride was a brillant mix of dressage and showmanship. No wonder the audience loved it, and were lukewarm to other riders who scored higher.
With that in mind, perhaps its time to give 2 awards: one for the winner as scored by the judges, and another for the audience favorite.
As we’re trying to attract the public to dressage, an audience award would engage them even more.
(and no, I don’t know how the votes could be counted…I just came up with the idea)
[QUOTE=ASB Stars;5134273]
I just got back from DAD. Very boring without the riders who are in Lexington…[/QUOTE]
I was at DAD too. Had a great time all week.
The top rider I follow was there, and Catharine Haddad won the GP (she’s pretty good, right ?)
Just saw the freestyle.
I agree with the poster who said he knew he wasn’t going to medal, so he was just going to go in there and put on a show. The “party instead of a halt” at the end pretty much confirms that in my mind. There was some stuff that was a little over the line but… hey. I think we all love him a little for it.
As a competitor, when I know I don’t really have a chance to win (for whatever reason) I focus on going in and having a good time. And by god, if I was at WEG and I reasonably knew I wasn’t going to medal, you bet I’d party in the freestyle.
I think outside the dressage community people will now remember this WEG not for Toto and his hattrick but for Feugo and his dancing. If I had my choice of meeting JMMD or Gal, no question, I’d want to shake JMMD’s hand and express how awesome I thought that was, and to please keep up the great work.
And the crowd reaction just confirms that dressage spectators are eager and on tap, but the collective dressage community needs to get the stick out of their butts and embrace this thing called “showmanship”
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