This maybe a stupid question, but what injection would work within minutes on a horse that is already warmed up and working?
[QUOTE=midstride;7670344]
You have invested in your horse, not the barn. Board is an expense, a sunk cost. Do what you feel is right by your horse. You can decide that they are never tranqing your horse and keep with what you feel is good training otherwise, or be clear from it all and move on. Have you thought about a farmette and trailering in for lessons (elsewhere)?
Other disciplines may work too, as someone suggested. Often trainers in other disciplines, eventing for example, still have experience in hunters, if that is where you wish to say.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.
I will add that I will always turn away from people who have crossed the line from loving horses to just wanting to win at any cost. Even those people who sore their TWHs, at one time, were only in horses for the love of horses. Then they crossed the line where winning means more than the horse.
I’m not so sure how I’d feel about this case. Probably much as you do. I don’t care for the cavalier attitude and the fact that going to get the shot seemed like such a day to day thing that they do. I don’t know how you can go about finding a place that doesn’t do this sort of thing. It’s not something they will admit to a potential customer (you) IMO. It’ll be tough to know without actually already knowing people at the barns.
But I would like to say you mentioned “personal integrity.” And it’s just that. YOU can continue to be in the discipline and do your best, you don’t ever have to succumb to what other people do. If they press you, leave them. But your personal integrity is your own. You can be the beacon of fairness and care of horses first among a group of win-at-any-cost people. And you can feel good about what YOU do.
That’s all. 
[QUOTE=foursocks;7675678]
OP, your updated post certainly makes sense, but you have to admit that what you said in the beginning was not that you are worried your career will suffer if someone gives your horses drugs without your knowledge. What you said originally is that you don’t want to be involved in a sport where drugs are used.[/QUOTE]
I understand your confusion. When I was summarizing what I’d learned about the USEF stance on prohibited substance use, I wrote “Even taking ethics and morals, the contents of the syringe, and the context of the situation out of the equation, that’s enough to keep me from showing.”
For me, this remains an issue of ethics, morals, and a failure to properly care for one’s horses.
[QUOTE=trubandloki;7676865]
I am part of the crowd that really does not get why the OP has not called their trainer, the person they deal with, the person in charge, to discuss this issue.
So, how were we supposed to take this statement?..[/QUOTE]
I have no relationship with the Head Trainer. I have only worked with the Assistants, Working Students, and the like. It was the Assistant that I spoke with about my views on drugging.
He is pasture decoration, for sure, but he won’t be wasted. He can be strong over fences and intermittently spooky. He’s only known life as a Show Hunter, so I don’t think he’s suitable for re-training to another discipline. That’s okay. He seems happy just hacking around at home and being a pasture buddy to my young horses.
[QUOTE=Sparrowette;7676516]
You didn’t make any agreement with the AT, nor did you sign a contract with the AT, and from what I’ve read, you didn’t speak to AT regarding these issues prior to boarding.
You spoke to the Head Trainer. And you still haven’t said word one to the HT? HT is the person you spoke to before you signed on, who agreed with you that it was wrong, and they didn’t do it. This is the person you talked to before and made the agreement to lesson.
But you won’t tell HT anything at all. 
Sheesh.[/QUOTE]
To clarify, I have no relationship with the Head Trainer. There are no signed contracts. I keep my horses at home.
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?221761-Drugs-as-training-tool-at-your-barn
Same conversation. Different day (or year, as the case may be). Sigh.
OP: you are still overly dramatic about your poor show-hunter-turned-pasture puff. Goodness. If you like to ride/show/jump, get off your ass and do it. There are plenty of ways to do whatever without being a part of a barn that drugs.
Guaranteed your horse doesn’t know he’s a hunter. He knows he jumps things. Put your big girl pants on and go XC, take him hunting, do some dressage. He won’t die…and you might not either. 
Sometimes in life, we look for things to justify a wish, a decision, a want, a desire, a decision, a position.
OP, if you don’t want to show anymore that is totally cool. You don’t have to justify your decision to anyone. Your choice. Good luck with what ever your decide.
[QUOTE=EvieG13;7676759]
Also, I noticed that OP said
and
Also (can’t find the direct quote) something about how “NO ONE in the ring even blinked an eye, the AT, the other riders in the ring, the parents, etc…”
except… OP, NEITHER DID YOU!!! [/QUOTE]
You are correct. I have thought about this a great deal. Clearly, I have a firm stance on drugging. So why didn’t I say or do something when it was occurring right in front of me? I don’t know. If the situation were replayed, I still don’t know what the right thing to do would be.
In hindsight, I probably should have waited there to speak to the Assistant in person about the situation. Waiting for the WTF shock to subside and trying to sort it out on my own has been a fool’s errand.
[QUOTE=Threeplainbays;7679104]
He is pasture decoration, for sure, but he won’t be wasted. He can be strong over fences and intermittently spooky. He’s only known life as a Show Hunter, so I don’t think he’s suitable for re-training to another discipline. That’s okay. He seems happy just hacking around at home and being a pasture buddy to my young horses.[/QUOTE]
OP, I retrained my teenaged horse to do jumpers after she’d done the hunters her entire life… it worked out super well and we’ve both had a blast. Don’t assume you can’t do something else without trying!
Trixie - soft & chewy cookies? I just learned that Ben & Jerry’s discontinued my favorite ice cream, so am open to rebound cookies ( :lol: )
So true, Zuri. Thank you.
Rugbug, keep reading.
Supershorty, I truly appreciate the encouragement. I am willing to try!
To all the other posters who took the time to respond thoughtfully - thank you. I’m drafting letters about this issue to the USEF and USHJA, and your input - positive, neutral, or negative - has helped me think through the viewpoints.
To the posters who believe that I should stop wagging fingers, engaging in moral drudgery, and go home, consider it done. I no longer have any interest in showing Hunters.
For what it’s worth, I connected briefly with the Assistant Trainer. I know no more about the details and context of the incident than I did when it happened. I have a better understanding of the type of client that succeeds in a highly structured program, as well as an appreciation of the intense pressure that some professionals are under to maximize performance.
We discussed the realities of medication, maintenance, and “calming substances”. My stance on this issue remains unchanged.
We agreed that I would be best served by working with a trainer outside the Hunter discipline who does not have a requirement for showing in order to receive training.
We have terminated our working relationship.
I’m looking forward to finding a Jumper or Eventing trainer who shares my stance on this issue and who can help me reach my goals of learning to properly ride a course over 3’ and developing a more secure base so I can ride cross-country. I’m willing to take the time to find the right match and “get out there and meet people” as one poster advised.
I’m still disappointed. I admit that I got excited when I heard that my horse had the talent and quality to become a professional’s A-rated Show Hunter. I made plans and purchases before I really knew what I was getting into. I trusted before I verified. I own those errors.
Mine is a cautionary tale, and I hope the editors of this website leave these postings up so others can learn from my experience.
Thank you again.
You know there are jumpers and eventers that drug too, right? It isn’t just hunters. Your moral issues will not be solved by changing disciplines.
Enough already.
I can pretty much guarantee that she can find a reputable eventing trainer who has no expectation that she will do anything but ride her own horse, 100% of the time (barring injury etc), and will be able to show at a challenging and rewarding level successfully based solely on her own hard work.
Are there eventers who drug? Sure. Would there have been a multipage thread full of equivocations, excuses, and scenarios involving placebo injections on the eventer board? No.
I’m pretty sure one would be able to find a hunter trainer who doesn’t drug, either. I’ve found several. They even manage to compete successfully. Most of them just work very hard to find horses who are suited for the job we’re asking them to do and then train for it, rather than trying to make a hunter out of one that clearly wants to do a different job.
It seems to be ridiculous to write off the entirety of the sport because of one bad experience, but hey, it’s her horse and her decision. But what I’m seeing here is someone who is absolutely positively bound and determined to run like heck from this sport due to one bad experience, even though she very much wanted to participate. And that seems like a shame to me.
[QUOTE=Trixie;7679412]
It seems to be ridiculous to write off the entirety of the sport because of one bad experience, but hey, it’s her horse and her decision. But what I’m seeing here is someone who is absolutely positively bound and determined to run like heck from this sport due to one bad experience, even though she very much wanted to participate. And that seems like a shame to me.[/QUOTE]
Yep. It’s like having one bad relationship and swearing off men altogether. Honestly, I find the reaction pretty immature. B all means, leave the trainer, but the sport? It’s the act of a child.
And I can pretty much guarantee that she can find a reputable hunter trainer with no expectations she would do anything but ride her own horse and show successfully based on her own hard work. In fact, I think a lot of the people who ride hunters who have responded on this thread know at least one. They do not have to go event or foxhunt or do the jumpers or what have you in order to find a clean trainer, just as an eventer who got caught up in a bad barn that drugged would not have to switch disciplines to find a clean one.
[QUOTE=Perfect10;7679503]
And I can pretty much guarantee that she can find a reputable hunter trainer with no expectations she would do anything but ride her own horse and show successfully based on her own hard work. In fact, I think a lot of the people who ride hunters who have responded on this thread know at least one. They do not have to go event or foxhunt or do the jumpers or what have you in order to find a clean trainer, just as an eventer who got caught up in a bad barn that drugged would not have to switch disciplines to find a clean one.[/QUOTE]
I agree completely! I rode with a trainer who only gave her horses banamine and occasionally robaxin when they showed and competed and did extremely well at very big A shows on the east coast.
Ummmmm.
Banamine and robaxin are…wait for it…drugs.
Oh for god’s sake, they are not illegal drugs. This posturing is just ridiculous. “Drugging” a horse is referring to giving it something against USEF rules. Giving a horse a LEGAL anti-inflammatory when it’s at a show is NOT drugging.
Hey, guess what - Wondermare gets some robaxin the night after a big class.
(If we’re going to be honest, I get some too.)
If you’re trying to claim that eventers or people in other disciplines never ever give their horses an NSAID after competing, then… I don’t really know what to say. FEI horses can’t show on NSAIDs, but they can on Adequan, Legend, Pentosan, etc.
If you don’t want to do the hunters and you want to pretend that everyone in the hunter world rides off the end of a needle, fine. If you want to be completely unrealistic and think that a legal amount of an anti-inflammatory counts as a drug, go for it. But if you want to say that type of thing on a hunter/jumper forum, don’t be surprised when the people who actually know about it either think you’re completely ridiculous or offensive.
Once again, the majority of people on this board do things the right way, which is not using illegal substances as performance enhancers.
[QUOTE=asterix;7679552]
Ummmmm.
Banamine and robaxin are…wait for it…drugs.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they are drugs, but there are legitimate therapeutic reasons-like living in a 10x10 tent stall on a parking lot with no turn out, change of feeding schedules and usually in the feed itself when traveling ( can’t bring hay for 24 horses from home when on the road for 6 weeks). And there are established thresholds which, if exceeded, mean a hearing, fine and possibly suspension especially if it’s not a first offense.
There’s a big enough problem with numerous substances specifically given to enhance performance and lack of enforcement by USEF without adding those whose use can be appropriate.
