Just saw proof that I ride at a HJ barn that uses drugs

[arlosmine]

I don’t see the OP on a soapbox here. I see some one who is disillusioned, and rightfully so. I also agree that several of the people who responded to this post seem defensive, and initially try to justify the use of drugs to cheat (even though this did not happen at a horse shoe, this WAS cheating), and the point the OP makes about it being disrespectful to the horse is dead-on.

This is a heated subject, and if it causes people to take a look at some uncomfortable aspects of the sport they are involved in, that’s a good thing. We can all learn from the cycling debacle.

[Spartacus]

Honestly, I have to say I’m not that concerned in this situation. You’ve stated that the parent was taking the video to showcase the rider for an intercollegiate team. They were not showing the horse, prepping a video for selling the horse, or otherwise doing anything dishonest----they were simply, in this case, trying to showcase the rider. As well, they made no effort to hide or disguise the fact that they were sedating the horse. Seems to me that this was a very straight-up situation. Were it me (and I live in an area with a million A circuit barns, and have seen lots of sedation up close and personal----and I, and my trainer, have never bought into that shit) I would not assume that this meant that horses were being sedated routinely, or that yours might be sedated. Instead, I would view this as an isolated situation, and not get into a panic. Should you find out down the road that sedation actually is part of their training program, then I would say that you have to make the decision that works with your personal ethics. In the meantime, you are in a learning environment that is working well for you and your horse. I wouldn’t jump ship too soon.

[Trixie]

I don’t want to be a part of a competitive sport that uses drugs to gain an advantage

You know what, maybe you should go just jump your horse around 3’ fences at home. Any sport with competition has cheaters. That means just about ALL OF THEM. So, no more sports and no more competing.

Or, you can find a barn and trainer who agree with your wishes and go enjoy yourself without worrying about what everyone else is doing, and be happy with your horse and your performance. Either way, really.

Actually, you are painting the entire sport. This over the top attitude of saying there are no barns that don’t drug is ridiculous. Think what you want, but don’t come on here and accuse most of the people here of cheating. Because by saying everyone at the AA level drugs, you’re saying many of the people here are cheating.

Agreed. Many of the posters on this thread show at the “A” shows and have said they don’t condone drugging. I know many “A” show riders that don’t that aren’t here, too.

I see some one who is disillusioned, and rightfully so.

Evidently she’s disillusioned by one thing that happened in one barn and therefore, now ALL of us are the devil. And the entire sport, apparently.

Condemning a whole sport for the acts of a minority is short sighted if you love the sport.

Yes. At this point, OP, you’re the one who is losing out. If “everyone else sucks” is your reason, that’s fine, but you might want to focus a little bit more on what you’re doing and not what everyone else is doing unless you have positive suggestions for change instead of complaints.

[Mardi]

@DoubleTwistedWire;7671626

I don’t think the OP is overreacting at all for wanting to stop training with that trainer/barn/program after what she witnessed. I’d probably do exactly the same thing. I DO think she’s overreacting for wanting to quit the whole shebang because she’s witnessed one alleged drugging incident.

Agreed.

[supershorty628]

If you care about your performance at the show, and don’t care as much about the ribbons that you get, you’ll find the experience to be much more rewarding. Regardless of sport.

Compete with yourself.

(or, alternatively, paint the entire sport with one brush and say that everyone drugs, tell the people on this board that the A circuit is a drugging culture when many people have, I suspect, more experience showing there than you do, and throw yourself on the ground having a tantrum about how your horse is going to sit in a field forever now. That works too.)

I think Lady Eboshi said it quite well.

[olivertwist96]

@supershorty628;7671913

If you care about your performance at the show, and don’t care as much about the ribbons that you get, you’ll find the experience to be much more rewarding. Regardless of sport.

Compete with yourself.

This!! I will try to keep this in mind today as I show the 6 year old at one of the biggest shows we’ve been to thus far

[findeight]

If OP does feel strongly, wouldn’t the thing to do be talk to the Head Trainer who apparently was not there? Even if the talk is to say buh bye?

Its easy to speak up about ethics and morality to strangers in cyberspace. Letting the head trainer know, in a civil manner, what happened in their absence sending you packing would go a whole lot farther toward getting your voice heard then this thread is doing. That would not be the first at home assistant making decisions the head trainer would not approve in their absence and the right, moral and ethical thing to do is talk to head trainer about why you are leaving. In person.

Owners need to speak up more about what is done to their horses but speak to those that do it in person.

Maybe head trainer is a jerk who does routinely drug, maybe they aren’t and assistant will be looking for a new position. But it’s up to us, the owners, to speak and let them know our feelings. Otherwise we are as guilty as some of them are.

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=Spartacus;7671669]
Honestly, I have to say I’m not that concerned in this situation. You’ve stated that the parent was taking the video to showcase the rider for an intercollegiate team. They were not showing the horse, prepping a video for selling the horse, or otherwise doing anything dishonest----they were simply, in this case, trying to showcase the rider. As well, they made no effort to hide or disguise the fact that they were sedating the horse. …[/QUOTE]

Do you think they included that footage on the video? Unless they did, they were hiding it.

[CVPeg]

Think it is sad if someone newly involved in the sport sees this right away.
What has been even sadder, is returning to the sport, and finding out just how prevalent it is. (And the same for horse-racing.)

I’ve been slammed for trying to rehome a horse with a diagnosis that is the new fear - with allegations that I’ll cover up his situation. Yet he is sound, I ride him without drugs, with a fitted saddle, best when he has plenty of turn-out, and almost daily work.

But when junior visiting boarders this winter left all their directions laying out about what to inject to whom before the show, I just had to shake my head. But that’s ok - so many shows are no longer recognized anyway, so what?

I’m sorry, but so much is just now taken in stride. But also hard to hear all the justification above.

[hntrjmprpro45]

For those saying that its not so bad because the video was to show off the rider… Do you think drugging a horse for an equitation class at a show is also okay? Most colleges are fairly competitive in terms of trying out for the team. I think (or hope) most college coaches would not condone this type of behavior and most likely wouldn’t consider a rider if they knew what happened.

It’s funny that this came up, I’ve been having an ongoing conversation with my assistant about ethics in this sport. There is “right and wrong” when it comes to showing within the set of rules. However, outside of showing, ethics are subjective and entirely up to the trainer. What is considered fair treatment to the horse with one trainer may be entirely different with another. Like my mother always said “it’s what you do when no one is watching that REALLY defines your character”.

And I completely agree with those saying that you need to speak with the head trainer to let them know what happened. At the very least they will know why you left and may change their program going forward in the future.

[Threeplainbays]

Thank you for your replies.

At no time did I state that I would let my horse waste in a field. Am I going to show? No. Will I continue to ride and enjoy him, hopefully with the guidance of an ethical professional that can teach me how to move up from 3’ fences? Yes.

At no time did I state that the entire sport uses drugs. I am sure that the majority of trainers and riders achieve their results through hard work and not pharmacology.

But how do you know? How does an owner know what is really going on when it is standard practice to send a horse off to the circuit, for weeks at a stretch, under someone else’s care, when the potential for them to make a significant amount of money exists?

I have stated frankly that I have never shown at this level. I am a Pony Clubber that evented on occasion many years ago. I showed at a handful of local HJ shows. That is the extent of my horse show experience.

There are so many aspects of HJ showing at this level that are utterly foreign to me - trainers making all the decisions, full-care grooming, “maintenance” programs with chiropractic and massage and joint injections, commissions, entry forms and show fee lists that are a page long.

It seems as much a business as a sport. And that’s the distinction that put cycling on the road to ruin.

[AmmyByNature]

[QUOTE=Bogie;7671470]
Yup. I’ve been wondering what they could have done to relax the horse in 5 minutes when it was already up.[/QUOTE]

This keeps coming back to me. This whole thing is just a perfect drugging story. Like, if someone were writing a scene for a movie and they wanted to hammer in the EVILS OF ALL HUNTER TRAINING, this is the crazy story that they would write.

OP trailers in, so she was having a lesson while this video was being taken? Who was teaching her if the assistant trainer was busy orchestrating this video and drugging the horse? And some trainer marches out to inject a horse that is already being ridden and is probably pretty hot already, yet this injection majically settles the horse down in 5 minutes? I’d love to know what the drug was, personally. I could use some before conference presentations for work! And no one cares and the kid proudly walks around regaling the OP about the benefits of this “relaxation shot?”

And to use this story to go into a drama llama “the whole sport is tainted and my million dollar WB (who I scrimped and saved for and did everything right from the ground up and is amazing and steps over 3’6”) is going to sit in a field for the rest of his days because horse showing is omergod so evil" seems like total overkill.

I don’t know. It just sounds too perfect. But maybe I’m just jaded. If it’s not the drugging killing our sport it’s the crest release and ducking over fences. And longing. And leasing.

[Threeplainbays]

I am telling the truth. I know what I saw. That is what happened and I stand by my statements.

If people choose to disbelieve because the truth is inconvenient or unpleasant, that is their choice.

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=Spartacus;7671669]
Honestly, I have to say I’m not that concerned in this situation. You’ve stated that the parent was taking the video to showcase the rider for an intercollegiate team. They were not showing the horse, prepping a video for selling the horse, or otherwise doing anything dishonest----they were simply, in this case, trying to showcase the rider. As well, they made no effort to hide or disguise the fact that they were sedating the horse. Seems to me that this was a very straight-up situation. Were it me (and I live in an area with a million A circuit barns, and have seen lots of sedation up close and personal----and I, and my trainer, have never bought into that shit) I would not assume that this meant that horses were being sedated routinely, or that yours might be sedated. Instead, I would view this as an isolated situation, and not get into a panic. Should you find out down the road that sedation actually is part of their training program, then I would say that you have to make the decision that works with your personal ethics. In the meantime, you are in a learning environment that is working well for you and your horse. I wouldn’t jump ship too soon.[/QUOTE]

The entire point of IHSA showing is to get on a strange, new to you horse and ride it. So if the rider couldn’t do that at home in a comfortable environment without drugs then how does cheating to make it look like she could ok? There are only so many spots available. What if she makes the team over another rider with less means who ACTUALLY can get on a strang horse and put in 8 really nice fences? Is that fair and ok?
While I think the OP needs to have a talk with the trainer about why the asst. trainer did (and I would make sure the owner of the horse is aware as well!) I do not blame her for being upset and disenchanted with the barn over this.

[Trixie]

But how do you know? How does an owner know what is really going on when it is standard practice to send a horse off to the circuit, for weeks at a stretch, under someone else’s care, when the potential for them to make a significant amount of money exists?

Erm, well I know because I have my horses at home and ship to our trainer. I also trust her ethics enough that when he was boarded there, he wasn’t given anything he wasn’t supposed to get.

[PonyPenny]

[QUOTE=Threeplainbays;7672082]
It seems as much a business as a sport. And that’s the distinction that put cycling on the road to ruin.[/QUOTE]

Cycling is not on the road to ruin. Yes, Lance Armstrong doped and lied about it, but so did every other elite cyclist. You are naive to think they all didn’t do it. However cycling is as strong as ever. Watching the Tour de France and the ton of spectators lining the roads in amazing. Where I live, tons of cyclist who race on teams are out training. Bike races have a ton of entries. My husband, who has been racing bikes for 35 years, says they have more people wanting to join the team, than space available. Don’t drag another sport into this thread.

[ChristinaClarLuisa]

Wow, guys. You are being really tough on the OP.

As an “outsider” who looks over the fence admiringly at hunters, I completely get her reaction. If you aren’t used to the culture (and I think that is the right word) this would be a real Whiskey Tango Foxtrot experience. It would be for me, and I’m not too naïve about how things work.

I would sign on to the hope that OP will stay in the game, look for another barn, and help improve the sport. But I get the emotional reaction.

Perhaps it’s a good reminder of how we look from the “outside.”

[Sparrowette]

TPBs, I don’t disbelieve you, but I will say again that I think you are hypersensitive.

First, being a snoopy sort, I would have dug in and found out exactly was given. “Relaxation shot” is sort of vague. “Hey kid, (Assistant, whomever) What was in that shot? Horsey seems real happy now.” If they were so blasé about it, then they wouldn’t have hesitated to answer. Or you can still check the fridge or medical storage spot. What’s in there and how much of it is there? That should tell you more than just “I saw!”

Second, just as this gal wanted to have a good run for the video, in whatever way she thought she could get it, anytime people compete, if it be bikes or horses or whatnot, there will be SOME people who want to win, via WHATEVER way they think they can. That’s just a fact of life, some people are bad, and if you can’t understand that, then IMO, there’s no getting through to you. No, cheating/drugging is not right, but that’s just life, and people. You will never find a group of people who compete against each other, where SOMEONE will not want to find an advantage.

If you don’t want to compete in any sport where no one cheats, ever, and you will never be up against someone who has tried to “get an edge”, then you should never compete in anything, ever again. Period.

Third, as you said:
“It is not enough for me to insist that my horse isn’t drugged. For that reason, there is no need to discuss this with the trainers. I don’t want to be a part of a competitive sport that uses drugs to gain an advantage, and if that means that all I do with my horses is hack around and jump the 3’ fences that I have at my farm, then so it is.”

Your insistence that the whole barn, even the absent trainer (whom you said you would NOT BOTHER TO TALK TO) show themselves to be perfect people is unrealistic. Sad, but true. You also said that the head trainer assured you that he/she agreed with you re: drugs, but you won’t help this person enforce the standards that you and he/she had agreed on. Shame on you.

I am not someone who would condone the drugging of horses for non-medical reasons. But when you say, in effect, “I don’t like this so I’m not going to play any more and not tell anyone why!” is way too much for me to wrap my head around.

[Zuri]

OP, my 6 figure show hunter has inflammatory bowel disease causing him to colic frequently. He is now on a small does of prednisolone daily which has saved his life. It is considered a performance enhancing drug by the USEF and is a banned substance. There is no exception for a horse needing it to survive. My daughter can no longer show him at rated shows. I am medicating him so that he can live and not suffer the horrific pain associated with colic, displacement, and gas distension.

I would hope that you would not judge me harshly for doing so. I would hate to think that if you were at my barn, you would leave because essentially, I am drugging my horse. It would make me feel incredibly sad that I was the root cause for your leaving.

I never thought that others might be uncomfortable with doing so. I would hope the other boarders and riders would understand how much my horse means to me and my daughter. They have witnessed first hand his colic episodes, 8 hospitalizations, 3 surgeries, and his recoveries.

IMO, this is not a black and white issue. There are multiple shades of grey. I hope you can find the rationale behind the junior rider’s circumstances. If it meant that she could get a full ride to a college costing 40K a year, it may have been worth it to the rider, her parents and trainer.

I am not condoning it by any means. I am just wondering if there is a way to rationalize this on a case by case basis. JMV

[S1969]

[QUOTE=PonyPenny;7672196]
Cycling is not on the road to ruin. Yes, Lance Armstrong doped and lied about it, but so did every other elite cyclist. You are naive to think they all didn’t do it. However cycling is as strong as ever. Watching the Tour de France and the ton of spectators lining the roads in amazing. Where I live, tons of cyclist who race on teams are out training. Bike races have a ton of entries. My husband, who has been racing bikes for 35 years, says they have more people wanting to join the team, than space available. Don’t drag another sport into this thread.[/QUOTE]

I think you missed the part about the OP being a professional cyclist. She’s not simply dragging another sport into the thread. (Or at least working in the world of professional cycling, if not as a competitor…).

I don’t know, I think people are being pretty harsh on the OP as well. I don’t show, but my kids dabbled in 4H and did a few local shows. I found out that one of my kids showed in a 4H show on a pony that had been given Ace, and I also watched the trainer at a HJ barn we rode at give a lesson pony Ace prior to another <10 year old student riding. I wouldn’t doubt that this trainer would also use Ace on a horse in competition either, based on that example.

Seems that having Ace on hand is pretty common, and at least in my experience was used without a lot of concern for who saw and what they thought.

Of course, I would argue that MOST horses in competition are not drugged, and winners don’t win because they ride drugged horses. But, it sure opened my eyes to the possibilities.