Posted July 26:
[QUOTE=danceronice;7684553]
Catching up on this thread…[/QUOTE]
Monalisa posts this Jan 2:[QUOTE=monalisa;7938471]Please don’t flame me but in America the answer for everything is “take a pill.”[/QUOTE] Why the resurrection? 19 pages wasn’t enough?
[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7943024]
Posted July 26:
Monalisa posts this Jan 2: Why the resurrection? 19 pages wasn’t enough?[/QUOTE]
It was resurrected by someone advertising PP for sale.
If you are competing at an FEI event, then human drug testing is definitely a thing.
[QUOTE=AffirmedHope;7943041]
It was resurrected by someone advertising PP for sale.[/QUOTE]
Yes and the mods deleted it from this and several other threads PDQ.
[QUOTE=skippy77;7943019]
I think the solution is simple. The USEF needs to come out with a clear statement addressing this.
The USEF can say that supplementing with magnesium for the purpose of calming a horse down is against the rules. And that supplementing with magnesium to address a deficiency is not against the rules. In this case, some people will continue to use perfect prep but they will have to look in the mirror and tell themselves that their horse is magnesium deficient.
.[/QUOTE]
But isn’t this exactly what the rules are? You cannot use anything with the intent of altering behavior. Period.
[QUOTE=asterix;7943203]
But isn’t this exactly what the rules are? You cannot use anything with the intent of altering behavior. Period.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. The rules are quite clear. People who use substances that “won’t test” and then try to rationalize their behavior are not following the rules as currently written.
[QUOTE=bjd2013;7942652]
What I’m trying to say is no horse is perfect, quiet, not nevrous, or stressed. No amount of training will fix that, I don’t care what you say. You can’t tell a horse “Oh well horsey you’re in a new place but be calm because it’s not a big deal you’ll be home in 5 days just relax.” If it was like that we wouldn’t have this discussion or problem.
I care about the horse, not the ribbon. I don’t care what’s morally right or wrong, if my horse is nervous I’m going to give it something to ease the nerves so it’s a fun and good experience for both of us.[/QUOTE]
I so disagree with all of this. I have a 5 year old TB gelding that was, and arguable still is, pretty green. You can pretty much take him anywhere and he’ll walk off the trailer, look around and munch some grass. He is a horse that was off of work in December and shipped up to a vet clinic for some diagnostics and calmly walked around donkeys, crazy equipment and jogged quietly in a windy parking lot. I didn’t train him to be like this; he was born this way and I only have to do my best to not mess him up. His attitude is specifically why I bought him. Were he fancier with more scope, his price tag would have had an extra zero and he would not be mine :)He still needs more miles to be totally to the jumps the first time around - so I have my trainer ride him before me and I get him out whenever I can. If he has a moment where he gets flustered, we reassure him through it and carry on.
Many people buy the jump and figure they will work out the rest. As a working amateur, it was important to me to buy the brain. I think many people end up in Perfect Prep land with the horse with the great jump that isn’t quiet enough, OR they want to skip the first year or two of horse showing where even the best baby needs some extra help. If your horse is that anxious, they definitely need more miles, possibly ulcer meds (which I realize one poster is putting in the same category of as calming supplements which is so ludicrous I don’t have words) and a calm handler to work them through it.
As far as the other statement that not every hunter makes a great jumper, that’s true. But if the horse has the athletic ability but not the mental ability to be a hunter, they are likely to be a good candidate to be a jumper, eventer or dressage horse.
[QUOTE=IPEsq;7943154]
If you are competing at an FEI event, then human drug testing is definitely a thing.[/QUOTE]
If you read the WADA rules that the FEI uses regarding human “doping”, you’d be surprised what drugs ARE allowed in competition.
https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/wada-2015-prohibited-list-en.pdf
You can tranquilize yourself AND have a drink (or 3) and be well within the rules.
I doubt anyone would want to do that, but it is “legal”.
OK two really stupid questions, I apologize in advance but I do really want to know the answer:
When a horse is drugged, do the trainers/competitors worry about pulling rails, missing lead changes, etc? I would assume that when they are so doped up they can get sloppy, no? Does that just not happen or it does and it’s a risk you have to take? I know when I’m watching towards the end of indoors I see way more rails likely due to tired horses…right?
When giving a horse perfect prep, which many here are comparing to benzos…from my experience using a benzo as a sleep aid, if I take it too many nights out of a month the effect wears off and I need more to fall asleep (when needed!)/or it just stops working entirely. So, does the same happen with Perfect Prep and other drugs? That they eventually lose their effect and they need more?
The answer to the first one is they take the risk on the rails and lead changes. It’s usually done for Ammie horses and they figure a little dull is the least of the evils in a kid or Ammy class. There is other, more sophisticated stuff out there that supposedly does not test, yet anyway, and does not dull them. The so called drug du jour or combination cocktail. No idea what they are using now, it’s a constant dance by some looking for an easy fix to hide training flaws or just a plain old unsuitable horse that cannot do what is asked but nobody tells the truth about that detail.
The second question, there’s nothing like benzos in it. It’s a nutraceutical allegedly replacing nutrients the horse is deficient in thereby calming them. If the horse is not actually deficient it does nothing and they just piss it out and stay nervous.
Unlike drugs, nutraceuticals are unregulated and there are generally no clinical trials to back up claims or prove safety and appropriate dosage alone or in combination with other supplements, nutraceuticals, vitamins, pseudo meds, meds or performance enhancers legal or otherwise. Some horses get multiple things added, who knows what that can do.
[QUOTE=findeight;7946877]
The answer to the first one is they take the risk on the rails and lead changes. It’s usually done for Ammie horses and they figure a little dull is the least of the evils in a kid or Ammy class. There is other, more sophisticated stuff out there that supposedly does not test, yet anyway, and does not dull them. The so called drug du jour or combination cocktail. No idea what they are using now, it’s a constant dance by some looking for an easy fix to hide training flaws or just a plain old unsuitable horse that cannot do what is asked but nobody tells the truth about that detail.
The second question, there’s nothing like benzos in it. It’s a nutraceutical allegedly replacing nutrients the horse is deficient in thereby calming them. If the horse is not actually deficient it does nothing and they just piss it out and stay nervous.
Unlike drugs, nutraceuticals are unregulated and there are generally no clinical trials to back up claims or prove safety and appropriate dosage alone or in combination with other supplements, nutraceuticals, vitamins, pseudo meds, meds or performance enhancers legal or otherwise. Some horses get multiple things added, who knows what that can do.[/QUOTE]
Thank you!
[QUOTE=DMK;7942992]
If you do this rather than think a chemical substance is a valid option, you get to join a long line of good horseman who have made up good (and great) horses out of a variety of equine personalities. Horseman who have also had the wisdom to understand that regardless of talent, not all horses were mean for this - or any - job no matter how much they might wish it to be so.[/QUOTE]
^This…
And maybe if Hunters weren’t expected to lope around at a snails pace with no expression or spark then maybe there wouldn’t be so much need to hit the chemicals or have them LTD. Makes me sad.
Whatever happened to keeping a horse healthy through a good program (fitness, turnout, good feed, balanced workload - not referring to the late slow-down years of maintenance), and working through “nerves” with training and exposure?
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;7683973]
Imagine what would happen if Axel Steiner were asked to comment on a hunter round. :lol:[/QUOTE]
A little known fact: Axel judged hunters long before he became a dressage judge! 
[QUOTE=BostonHJ;7646313]
Sigh. It is a lot to ask of a horse to do the big eq at their second show, much less expect them to pack around. Some time developing the horse in the 3 foot ring or even with a professional in the open divisions is apparently too much to ask. I actually thought he looked behind her leg for a good part of the trip. When he got heavy, he wasn’t running so much as he was falling on his front end.[/QUOTE]
He looks like one I had…big, scopey canter and drags one a bit thru the distance…Her saddle also looked like it had slid back as well, so certainly not the best place to be in. I like the horse and think he will end up very nice. He just needs some professional rides in my opinion…
Someone let me know about this thread being referenced in a current thread…
And I realized 4 years ago people were waiting for me to respond…
So I’m responding now.
In the past 4 years I have not suggested again to anyone in my comments on Judge My Ride to use PP.
Just sayin…
Rob Gage
OK. You haven’t repeated that advice publicly.
So what are you “sayin”?
Have you changed your mind about the PP or do you just want people to know that you haven’t actually repeated in public what you said four years ago?
Undisputed winner of the “weirdest bump” award.
What is in perfect prep?
I concur.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
