I cannot think of one word posted by Laine’s mom that I would not have posted myself, had it been one of my own daughters. If, indeed, I would have been with it enough to post at all. I am not an over indulgent mother, my daughters (both in their twenties now), definitely heard the word ‘no’ a lot. I’m not sure how anyone can judge Laine’s upbringing by these posts of her mom’s. 
I have a few questions and concerns.
I tend to agree with HorseBackRider and AiryFairy with their opinions of Laine.
When I first heard the news, my already skittish nature about cross country jumping (I do event…) just got a bit worse. I looked further into Laine’s history and it did seem that she was impulsive and had no real sense of danger.
She only purchased Frodo what, 4 years ago - and he never evented before and somehow he is ready for the Olympics now? She did not seem to compete him the summer before and she was showing two horses at Rolex.
She had a horse die at Rolex 2007 and lost a friend the fall of 2007 - she was riding her horse at Rolex.
While Phil Dutton and someone else did ride two horses at Rolex - they have decades more experience both in life and in eventing - since Frodo was her second ride, fatigue could have hampered her judgement.
I am just wondering if anyone who knows her can tell me different - that she wasn’t pushing herself and her horse to hard and she wasn’t turning a blind eye to the dangers of the sport.
I have looked, as much as I can find on the internet, at the other accidents and most of them stem from pulmonary embelisms or aneurism, which leads me to believe the people are pushing the horses to hard, but Laine really looked like rider error. David O’Connor - in political form - said it was rider error. He actually said horse and rider misjudged the jump, but it seems more the rider to me.
I am not trying to downplay Laine’s accident or her strength in recovery, just hoping to understand better. I do hope she gets better and can ride again - and I hope this slows her down and makes her realize - she has her whole life to get to the Olympics, no need to cut her or her horse’s life short just because she is impatient.
[QUOTE=Ajierene;3241708]
I have a few questions and concerns.
I tend to agree with HorseBackRider and AiryFairy with their opinions of Laine.
When I first heard the news, my already skittish nature about cross country jumping (I do event…) just got a bit worse. I looked further into Laine’s history and it did seem that she was impulsive and had no real sense of danger.
She only purchased Frodo what, 4 years ago - and he never evented before and somehow he is ready for the Olympics now? She did not seem to compete him the summer before and she was showing two horses at Rolex.
She had a horse die at Rolex 2007 and lost a friend the fall of 2007 - she was riding her horse at Rolex.
While Phil Dutton and someone else did ride two horses at Rolex - they have decades more experience both in life and in eventing - since Frodo was her second ride, fatigue could have hampered her judgement.
I am just wondering if anyone who knows her can tell me different - that she wasn’t pushing herself and her horse to hard and she wasn’t turning a blind eye to the dangers of the sport.
I have looked, as much as I can find on the internet, at the other accidents and most of them stem from pulmonary embelisms or aneurism, which leads me to believe the people are pushing the horses to hard, but Laine really looked like rider error. David O’Connor - in political form - said it was rider error. He actually said horse and rider misjudged the jump, but it seems more the rider to me.
I am not trying to downplay Laine’s accident or her strength in recovery, just hoping to understand better. I do hope she gets better and can ride again - and I hope this slows her down and makes her realize - she has her whole life to get to the Olympics, no need to cut her or her horse’s life short just because she is impatient.[/QUOTE]
first, get your facts right. then ask questions: “She” didn’t have Frodo for four years…and “She” did not have a horse die at Rolex 2007. “She” is Laine Ashker, and I, for one, would be proud to be like her. GO LAINEY!!!
Yeah she has had Frodo for something like 8 or 9 years… and he has run quite a few 3 stars very well, it wasn’t like she just whipped him out of a field and ran 'round Rolex. Any her other horse died at Jersey on 07, and actually not from any error, he died after completion of XC.
Laine’s interview piece for Rolex said that Frodo was purchased 5 years ago and mentions his experience starting in 2007.
HORSEBACKRIDER - do you have a link to that interview or know where I can find it? (apparently she did 'whip him out of the field and run ‘round Rolex’?)
I know Laine has done higher level eventing, but I also knew she couldn’t have owned Frodo for more than five years, since he was not purchased until after the last Lord of the Rings came out, which was in 2003.
I am not here to bash Laine, just understand better what is going on in Eventing.
The Quiet Man and David Chiaccha’s fall and the death of Laine’s horse at Rolex 2007, as far as I know, have been determined to be due to pulmonary embelisms or aneurisms. Someone mentioned that The Quiet Man should have been retired early in cross country and these type of health issues lead to the thought that some eventers are pushing their horses to hard in the pursuit of that win.
Ajierene, please get your facts straight. These are tough enough conversations as it is.
The Quiet Man and Darren C’s accidents were NOT due to “pulmonary embolisms” or any other health event.
I saw the Quiet Man’s fall. The horse did not have enough impulsion to clear the obstacle. You could tell before he left the ground. He had struggled with impulsion over several previous obstacles. There was concern among officials early on the course but they did gallop on well after the coffin and up to /over the Hammock, a big fly fence. After that fence he again seemed to lose his impulsion into the fences but he did not appear to be struggling to gallop on in between. It looked to me as though he was overfaced, not physically impaired. He injured his shoulder severely and was euthanized I believe that evening. He left the grounds standing in a trailer.
Darren’s accident was a rotational fall caused by the horse trying but failing to get all his legs off the ground in time. Horse is, as far as I know, fine.
Laine did NOT lose a horse at Rolex in 07. She had a bad fall at Rolex a year or two before that but the horse was not injured. She lost a horse at Jersey Fresh last year – he collapsed on completion of XC.
How exactly can you research and find out that Lainey had no real sense of danger?
And Frodo’s “real” experience didn’t start in 2007, that would be pretty impossible to get to Rolex in 2008. Here is his record (keep in mind the database only goes back to 2005 with every horse) so judging by that and how all of the horse trials he has done were Prelim., Int., Adv., you can figure he had more experience in years before that…
http://useventing.com/competitions.php?id=831&horse_id=84995
How exactly can you research and find out that Lainey had no real sense of danger?
And Frodo’s experience didn’t start in 2007, that would be pretty impossible to get to Rolex in 2008. Here is his record (keep in mind the database only goes back to 2005 with every horse) so judging by that and how all of the horse trials he has done were Prelim., Int., Adv., you can figure he had more experience in years before that…
DustInTime - this is what I am looking for. I could not find any performance information on Frodo. My comment that nothing was done with him until 2007 is from what Horsebackrider stated.
The url you put up comes up ‘404 not found’. Can you tell me where you found it? It looks like it is on the USEA board, but I cannot find it.
Asterix - Darren Chiacchia’s (sorry, I called him David accidentally before) and Hansel and The Quiet Man - I remember seeing original reports stated that the falls were due to pulmonary embelisms or aneurisms. This is also what my instructor stated when we discussed it. Basically, the horse has a heart attack and falls because of it. Other posters on this thread stated that The Quiet Man looked like he was struggling a few fences before the fall, which could also indicate something similar to a heart attack. I had seen the same remarks in regards to Darren Chiacchia’s horse. I cannot find them now, so they may have been errors on the part of the authors of the original articles - all articles were sought out shortly after the incidents and may have been corrected on the internet now. I did not do a search for Laine’s horse, the fact that he died without any other injuries indicates an internal failure - a breaking of something that was weakening.
I understand that this is a sensitive topic and I am posting it here because people here seem to know Laine better. I am being civil and seeking knowledge, I would appreciate the same civility from those posting. I apologize if I have inadvertantly offended someone and would appreciate if someone is offended to tell me what the offense is, in a polite manner. Rudeness will not get your point across. Understanding of someone seeking knowledge and offering correct information in a civil manner will.
I’m not sure why the link didn’t work but to get that you go to useventing.com, on the top there is a tab with competitions, then click horse qualification search (under resources), then you can type in Frodo Baggins.
The Quiet Man broke his shoulder, and it was worse than expected… that is why he was euthanized. Frodo landed on his head and I think broke his skull along with lung damage. Darren’s horse flipped, and was uninjured… nothing to do with heart attacks or anything internal.
Certainly I am not trying to be rude. I was just trying to provide you with the correct information, as these conversations are hard (by hard, I mean emotionally difficult for all of us – we are all upset by these events and wish desperately we could somehow ensure they are never repeated) enough when based on fact.
My coach was an assistant TD at Rolex and was TD at the event where Darren’s accident occurred (although she was officiating at the FEI portion, and he fell at Preliminary, so she was not HIS TD, if that makes sense).
She had to review footage of the Rolex accidents and is very much involved with the aftermath of all of these events at the highest level.
None of the accidents at Rolex had a “health event” component, and neither did Darren’s.
We were all of us enmeshed in some swirling eddies of speculation and talk (we were sitting on the grass at Rolex after Laine’s fall – not nearby, did not see it at all – actually getting text messages from folks at home who seemed to “know” more than we did…although most of it later proved to be incorrect) immediately afterwards, but these incidents have now been thoroughly investigated, so please believe me when I say that they were not caused by any known health issues.
I understand, asterix - emotionally charged subjects are always tough. It reminds me of my History of Christianity class, where my professor took a more pragmatic and historical approach to the founding of Christianity. In the past, he had students threaten to beat him up because he did not hold certain figures in the Christian faith as infallible, but looked at the historical aspect instead.
I did not feel that as much from you (though I was taken a bit aback by the first sentence), but from other posters. I understand the issues around this and am reminded of when my ex-fiance got into his horrific car accident and was lying in the hospital bed with a cracked jaw bone, two collapsed lungs, a fractured neck and various other issues (this was back when I loved him). It was very trying to see and very emotionally and physically exhausting to work a 40 hour week and drive an hour every day to visit him in the hospital, let alone the strain on his mother that lived in Florida-she could not afford to travel up and stay up in Baltimore. There is a very helpless feeling in that.
I know Laine’s fall was not medical. Initial reports that I read (these events are to far for me to travel to and I do not have the proper cable channels to watch equestrian sports) said that The Quiet Man had an embelism or aneurism that resulted in his fall. Initial reports also said that Darren’s horse suffered the same fate. In looking through what appeared to be the same articles I read a few months ago, days after the incident, they mention that the horse was unhurt. Not Rolex 2008, but Rolex 2007 (when Laine lost James St. Place) appeared to be similar to a heart attack.
I am in a similar boat to you - I have only what articles have given me. This is why I am searching information. I spent another 45 minutes looking for Frodo’s performance record (again) on USEA (DustInTime convinced me it was on USEA somewhere, my lack of research skills were just preventing me from finding it) and did finally find it.
http://useventing.com/competitions.php?id=831&horse_id=84995
So maybe her mentioning that she did not do anything with him until 2007 means that she did mostly horse trials and/or competed him at lower levels than she otherwise would have in those years? I also notice that she seemed to be above the proper level and could not earn USEA points in Frodo’s earlier career. This is probably something that USEA needs to change - if the horse has not done the level, why can’t the horse/rider earn points? This kind of rule may push someone who is competitive to move their horses through the levels more quickly than if they could earn points otherwise. I do not know if this was a factor for Laine and it probably was not since she had other horses to ride and earn points on and satisfy that competitive nature. I have the same nature, as do all Olympic dreamers, and am in now way condemning this nature.
Oh, I just reread your post and realized one of my mistakes - she lost a horse apparently to a heart attack (as far as I know, no necropsy was done, so death was not clearly determine) at Jersey Fresh and Rolex 2007 was where she fell and cracked her skull and finished anyway (very dangerous in my opinion, now I need to refresh and look into if she sought medical advice before continuing).
I guess the Rolex 2007 incident is the one that really makes me worry about Laine - a cracked skull and the next year she is riding two horses at Rolex? But again, this is why I am looking for more information.
I apologize for that, I had initially looked all this up immediately after Rolex and the information has gotten garbled in my mind in the time between then and now.
Nevermind 
Frodo = horse, not character.
<<I did not do a search for Laine’s horse, the fact that he died without any other injuries indicates an internal failure - a breaking of something that was weakening.>>
No, he died–well, he died of being euthanized–but the injuries he sustained were not pre-existing things that “weakened” as he galloped around, according to a veterinary report released via the family and reported by the Rolex Kentucky communications staff after the cross-country phase at the event. A fractured skull often is a cause for euthanization, and it doesn’t tend to happen spontaneously while the horse is galloping around.
As for The Quiet Man, again, the statement issued from the vets to Rolex and all subsequent reporting I have seen clearly state that the horse sustained a shoulder fracture that was determined to be too severe to repair with the horse’s best interests in mind.
Not trying to pile on here, just joining in to remind that given the high level of expertise in this forum and the explosive nature of this debate, it really, really is better to get the facts in your possession before offering public speculation. I don’t think anyone minds honest questions, but given the good amount of accurate information now available on these horses, being familiar with the known facts will help you in your stated goal of seeking knowledge.
OK, I am trying not to nitpick, but, seeuatx, Frodo the horse was IN the LOTR movies…so the dates for when the movies were made are relevant (although the movies were made all at once and then released separately, so he was bought sometime after the movies were made, not released).
ArtilleryHill, I think the horse of Lainey’s she is referring to is Jamie, who collapsed at Jersey Fresh, rather than Frodo. Just in case, though, yes, Frodo was euthanized as a direct result of catastrophic injuries sustained in his fall.
OK, gotcha, sorry… honestly never watched the movies. Though as you said the name could have been known before hand… anyhow, I’ll butt out :winkgrin:
If she’s talking about Eight St James Place, then my understanding is that a necropsy was indeed done, though I don’t know whether its results were made public. A search of COTH would likely reveal that!
…
I think he was actually in one of the Lord of the Rings movies. (Which would explain why someone would use the movie date as a clue.)
