His ACTH was normal, but apparently that’s the only BW she ran. I thought she ran others but those are the only results I got when I requested his records from the clinic.
He is not overly sensitive. Hes actually pretty hardy, so when he acts like hes in pain I know its legit. Hes a bit dramatic, but not sensitive.
We Xrayed once to make sure it wasn’t a foreign body causing the abscesses but it didn’t show much. He was also very hard to keep weight on - always had been - and given that he was fully retired for arthritis issues, and winters here are harsh I put him down in the fall. He was in a lot of pain more days than he wasn’t. I’m sorry.
We own a horse who had a severe laminitis episode several years ago. He ended up having significant rotation in all four feet. We initially pulled his shoes and tried to manage him barefoot, under the guidance of our really excellent local veterinarians and farrier. He was extremely painful. The Soft Ride boots were a godsend and gave him immediate comfort.
He seemed to be improving over the next few weeks but then became very painful in his fronts again, due to abscesses that appeared in a crescent shape in the toe area-likely due to pressure from the tip of the rotated coffin bone. We felt that we were hitting the end of what we could do for him at home, and made the decision to take him to a referral centre for an assessment.
The referral centre ended up doing some pretty drastic farrier work to correct his feet- the sole abscess were debrided, his heels taken back, and much of the hoof wall on his toes was removed to allow his angles to be realigned and the abscesses dealt with. To do this they put a reverse shoe on with wedges and his feet were packed and soaked daily (he of course now wears his shoes pointing in the normal direction
One of our horses suffered a severe bout of laminitis about 4 years ago. All four feet were involved, with significant rotation of the coffin bone in 3 of the four feet. We worked with our excellent and caring vets and farrier, pulled his shoes, got him a pair of Soft Ride boots (a godsend) and worked at rehabbing his feet (as well as addressing diet and health issues). He had convex, bulging soles like you describe. He appeared to be improving, but a couple of months in became much more painful. Cue the appearance of the abscesses, which were likely from a combination of the hoof wall separation and sole pressure from the tip of P3. He was very painful again even in the Soft Rides with us trying to deal with the abscesses as well.
At that point we felt we were not making headway and took him to a referral hospital a few hours away. They ended up doing a major dorsal hoof wall/toe resection, debrided the abscesses and took his heels back to allow P3 to come back to better alignment. To support the foot while it was healing and relieve sole pressure without putting weight on his dorsal hoof wall, he spent three months in reverse shoes with a wedge to correct his angles. He did not have pads as his soles needed daily soaking and packing where they were opened up to clean out the abscesses. He spent weeks there until his feet had healed and stabilized enough for us to manage him at home.
It was well over a year of rehab. Eventually his sole regained a more normal appearance, although his sole depth will never be the same as it was pre-laminitis. He wears shoes (now pointing in the right direction!) and pads in the summer when the ground is hard and and he is ridden on rocky trails. We are very, very fortunate that he recovered and is now comfortable and rideable. We came very close to losing him. We manage his diet, health and feet very carefully. We do not regret any of it.
That said, we agreed that if he has another big laminitis episode, we will not put him (and us) through rehab again.
It was a huge amount of work. We were exhausted by the time he went to the referral hospital, and there were months of rehab after he returned. If he did not live at home, with two people sharing the work, we could not have done it. It was terrible to see him in pain, and although we are lucky enough to be able to afford his care, not every horse owner could. We deal with abscesses occasionally and seedy toe a lot.
To my (non professional and only somewhat educated) eye, there may be some shoeing changes that might help. Horses that have had severe laminitis do not grow foot like a normal horse- they grow much more toe than heel, and the heel tubules tend to get crushed- I think that the comments that place all of the blame for the appearance of your horse’s feet on improper farrier work are forgetting this. It is really difficult to manage these feet. I am glad that you are getting another opinion and X-rays to inform your decision making. I will say that from my own experience, I do not believe that every horse with laminitis can be managed barefoot. And I don’t believe every horse can be brought back to comfort long term.
Good luck with your horse. Whatever the outcome here, he is very lucky to have such a caring person.
Trimmer or farrier. My farrier would never trim like this; he’s not a barefoot only trimmer. A good farrier knows how to trim.
I would probably get updated xrays but before I did anything else I’d get a new farrier.
I have 23 year old that has IR and Cushing’s and foundered in his hinds a few years ago. He rotated in the hinds 11-13% (one was worse than the other). A good trim from the BEST farrier you can find is vital.
What helped us, and I mean REALLY helped - and yes, it’s all expensive are: 1) SOFT RIDE BOOTS with the laminitis orthotic inserts (the purple blue ones). Can’t say this enough. Get the horse comfortable immediately. 2) Playsand in stall. Or regular builders’ “sand”. It’s a PITA getting in the stall - you’ll need about 30 bags and it’s a workout. But it is FANTASTIC. Places the horse’s hooves in a comfortable position, gets pressure off the heels and they love it. A pain to clean their stall (wet sand is HEAVY) but it can be life saving. 3) HEIRO supplement. The stuff works. Also helps with pain. 4) Metaboral if he does have IR or Cushing’s.
And finally for overall hoof health, Hoofmedic by Animed. It’s CHEAP and worked wonders on my guy who needed to grow more sole. (he was a few mm from coffin bone coming through). He grew more sole and hoof FAST on this stuff. I have friends that use it too and they love it (and so do their farriers). I would put him on this IMMEDIATELY if I were you.
My horse lived in his softrides in limited turnout (he was in drylot) They saved his life. I am going to PM you - I have a pretty beat up pair with size 7LN inserts (inserts are new). They may work for you for limited turnout. Generally a horse in pain from laminitis issues will walk out sound in the softrides. They are remarkable.
I would not shoe him!! Vicious cycle with nails, abcesses, causing more trauma to the hoof. Horses can live in boots very comfortably. Monitor progress with xrays. Ours here are $40 a film and worth every penny so I could see improvement and what was working.
My horse is now sound for light riding and turnout - he wears New Mac boots with cloud pads on his hinds and gallops around in those, and he is ridden in them as well (with Cavallo boots up front for riding). Also ok barefoot for short periods to let his feet dry out.
All of the above would not have worked without a tremendous farrier and vet. Good luck and I will PM you about the Softrides after I re-check their condition.
Knew a mare once who’d spontaneously abscess in different feet, randomly, despite the best of care & management. Started abscessing after vaccinations, or even simple sticks for a blood pull using hypo allergenic needles.
Mare was… 9? at the time. No obviously signs of IR/ Cushing’s etc. Blood tests came back normal, but on the high end of normal…
Put mare on 1/2 tab of Prascend daily. She’s been absolutely 100% ever since.
Mare is easily 1,400 lbs if not more…
OP, I don’t like any of the photos you’ve posted for farriery work. But I think it might behoove you to get an Rx for Prascend and just giving a very small dose and see if you notice any improvement.
We will see what tomorrow brings. At 19, and with all he has been through prior, I am unwilling to put him through another year of this unless I know there’s going to be a change for the better. I am also not able to keep him at home, so his care has to be able to be done at a boarding facility.
Yes, boots can help ease some pain but they do not correct the problem…and since I really don’t know what the problem is at this point I don’t know how to correct it and I have gotten more input here than I have in two years from the vet.
His current farrier has mentioned things like castings, bar shoes, pads, glue ons, etc but I had been fairly adamant about him staying barefoot because that was the only advice I was getting from the vet. I think he’s capable of helping, but I have been tying his hands and he hasn’t seen any films to date. I hope, that by seeing films he either says he CANT help, or that he can and can work with the new vet to figure it out.
I have tried two barefoot trimmers in the past, and while the concept of what they say sounds good, I never saw any actual change in the way they trimmed. That’s when I was shown how to use a rasp and was told I could handle his feet myself. Again, that’s nice in theory but I am not comfortable doing that and I think he needs more than just a quick swipe of the rasp every few weeks. I don’t know enough to know what I don’t know…if that makes sense.
I should have demanded better sooner, from both the vet and the initial farrier, so I let him down there. I am entering the first stages of a divorce, with two young kids, so my funds are limited as to what I can do now, but I will do whatever is within my budget if it will help him.
Fingers crossed its enough.
I am so sorry for your situation:(. Hugs and positive thoughts coming your way, in all aspects of your life.
I have been trimming my own horses, in a pinch, off/on since my granddad taught me as a 12 year old. My IR horse’s hooves ended up being waaaay out of my realm of expertise.
Here’s hoping tomorrow brings you solid answers and heads you down the right path to hoof rehab:)
Those of us following along will be anxiously awaiting the diagnosis:)
Don’t blame yourself. You were trusting professionals to take care of your horse and sometimes it’s really hard to know if you’re going in the right direction.
Jingles for tomorrow.
Well, if you want to take my time suggestion literally, yeah, 30 minutes online will easily tell you those heels are horribly underrrun, among other things.
Yes, certain issues do take time to fix. But if I read the OP’s posts correctly, current farrier has been working on this horse for a year. His feet shouldn’t look like that after a year of “fixing”.
You have no vertical depth.
Ventral border of P3 is bent from the center.
Numersous absecesses.
Possibly previously founder.
There’s not enough foot. A swipe of a sharp rasp is about all you’re gonna be able to do to the heel at this point.
It doesn’t matter what’s been done previously. Things mentioned above is what the next person who touches the feet has to deal with. Enough information was provided from the OP that the coffin bone is ready to come closer to the ground if the hoof capsule is messed with much.
This doesn’t look like a case of bad Farriery on a good footed horse that the owner can go grab a rasp and fix it. It’s looks more like a case of needing a good professional when if plan A goes south, plan B kicks in to get the horse to walk off the mat better than he walked in and on the road to recovery.
So, generally from the pics. What would you do? I often discuss these threads with my farrier and of course don’t have the photos available so they aren’t usually productive conversations.
I realize that without the horse in front of you it’s just a best guess, but a lot of us find this subject interesting and like to hear what professionals would do.
Depends on what’s going on with those abcesses. Probably keep it simple at first. Shoe set to nondistorted toe and leather pad.
Initial goal would be soundness and no abscessing. Probably get more agressive with stabilizing the hoof after that.
I hope the new vet has some good ideas. My daughter, an equine vet, advised me that if one can find the cause of the laminitis, you can probably treat them successfully. If you can’t find the cause, they usually don’t get better. My feeling is that at some point, if you aren’t making progress, it is time to pu them down. Laminitis is extremely painful. They should not suffer if they are not going to get better. I hope you find a cause and can treat it, but I am concerned that this is going on too long without an obvious cause declaring itself.
He had been in pads prior and continued to abscess through the coronary band. The pads are what was suggested at the farrier clinic…6 farriers and 2 vets agreed that pads were the best option…and it didn’t work, so, I would be hesitant to put pads back on him again at this point.
I do not know how many abscess he had prior to the lease ending, I know at least twice in the month or so leading up to me picking him up and he was in plain shoes at that point. My best guess is he had problems prior to me knowing about it and terminating the lease in March 2017. So, its been a solid 2 years of this back and forth up and down with no real relief for more than a few weeks at a time.
I’m at the point now that I need some solid answers and a plan that involves him feeling BETTER for more than a few days at a time. His good days need to start outweighing the bad or its not worth it. He’s 19, he’s not doing anything, he hates to walk, and he’s done more for me in the 10 years I’ve had him that any horse I’ve ever sat on. So, I need a real solution or there is just no point in continuing on, its not fair to him.
Yes I have boots for him, but even in boots the pain/problems continue. They do not solve the problem, they just make him conformable enough to walk from his stall to turnout a bit. Even in boots he continues to abscess. He has dropped a significant amount of weight even though he eats well. It’s just a never ending cycle…just when I think we’ve got it figured out and are on the right track BOOM there’s another one.
Rim pads can help if the pain is from the sole being in contact with the ground. Is he still on daily pain meds such as Previcox? I do think you are reaching the end of the line if you don’t find something that works soon.
He is on Previcox daily.
I guess I would try a good shoeing with rim pads, a low carb diet and a month of Prascend. Then, I think I would give up. It is so hard to see them in pain when you don’t think you can make it better. I would not continue to let him suffer if you think you have run out of options. You know him and have the best sense of his pain level. His weight loss makes me think he may be quite uncomfortable.
You are getting a lot of well intentioned, but not fully knowledgeable advice on this thread. I will say one more time, a negative test result for ANY PPID test (Cushing’s test) DOES NOT MEAN that your horse does not have PPID (Cushing’s). There is NO test, NONE, that can realiably and accurately diagnose all cases of PPID. Whomever said above that you can run additional bloodwork to test for PPID is correct in that there are multiple tests, but they are incorrect in the assumption that you can get identify all PPID horses through any available test. You could do every version of the test (ACTH, TRH stim, dex suppression, etc.) on one horse, have all three be negative, and do a necropsy that will show the horse has PPID. If your horse is symptomatic you should treat. Your vet is very uneducated about PPID if she thinks the horse has to have a hairy coat, not shed, etc. Those are the most common symptoms but not the ONLY symptoms, nor are they required to be present in order for a horse to have PPID.
I would treat this horse as if he has PPID and is IR. Start him on prascend (brand name for pergolide) or even compounded pergolide. Do it today. He is screaming PPID from the symptoms you describe with the abscesses and the strangles (lowered immune system). He sounds textbook for PPID actually. Keep him on the previcox. Get a new farrier. Eruss is giving some very helpful advice.
My farm has been used as a test farm (we board retirees, thus a very high number of PPID horses on our farm) for developing baselines for some of the tests. I will say once again that your horse can have a negative result to every PPID test and still actually have PPID.
Also, I think you’ve tried your best through the years to do a lot for this horse. You have two little kids and are in the middle of a divorce. I know you are mentally drained and financially drained just from the divorce. There is nothing wrong with euthanizing him if both your funds and your time are limited. The sad truth is we cannot save them all and his quality of life is poor much of the time. He’s lucky to have you, you have so clearly done your best for him.
Thank you!
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