Leroidesanimaux Mare "Guanabara Gal" at Bowie Auction

[DaveYGunN]

Howdy all. We were on vacation at the Grand Canyon and Arizona, Zion Park in Utah. I’m lucky to have a neighbor who is a state trooper and who grew up around horses so he was able to watch the girls for us while we were on vacation which was a lifesaver.

This past week we had a visit from the Farrier and the girls got their normally scheduled trim.

They are staying turned out 24/7 right now and we have a nice sun shelter for them. They are fed twice a day, one full bale of second cut hay between the two of them plus a fair amount of sweet feed, high fat grain by Bluebonnet, and an additional vitamin supplement.

Our smaller quarter pony, honey, is starting to fill out nicely, but with our TB Bonnie, it’s taking longer because she’s obviously more tall and lean, and we don’t want to do too much too quickly.

All in all they are doing amazingly. We have yet to saddle Bonnie and ride her but my daughter rides honey frequently. I have got on Bonnie bareback before and she didn’t seem to mind it whatsoever but until she looks a little less skinny, I just don’t feel, right about saddling her up. Who knows maybe if I did it would help her build some muscle and fill out but right now we just pony them behind the side-by-side through some of our pastures, to get some exercise.

I also invested in some white fly sheets with neck covers because the flies are pretty bad in western Pennsylvania at this time of year and this sweltering heat. Bonnie, the TB loves water so I normally purge the hose of any hot water and then cool her down after her morning feeding and she seems to love this ritual. She runs over and nudges the hose if I’m filling up the water trough until I spray her legs down and then she just stands there while I continue to work my way up her body with the water. Honey is the complete opposite and that has to do with spraying whether it’s water or fly spray.

[MHM]

Thanks for the update. I’m glad everything is going so well!!

[Angela_Freda]

@DaveYGunN
Is that, in the background , their area they live in?
I’m not sure how big your hay bales are, but they may need more hay per day if there’s not much actual grass to eat.
The rule is 1- 2% optimal body wt in hay, so a horse that should weigh 1000 should get up to 20 pounds of hay a day. So the two of them should get about 40#, which may be a bale.
It helps to get a scale to be sure you’re feeding enough because flakes in bales vary wildly.

Separating them may also help the TB get the ration they need, if the QH is a typical vacuum QH, and it sounds like she is as she’s fattening up faster than the TB.
.

[DaveYGunN]

Hello again. That is definitely good information to know. Since we are there two times a day, we cut open a fresh bale every morning and scatter it in half flake increments and then kick it all around the enclosure so it’s close to we can get to them grazing on grass. Their actual forever pasture(s) are planted and growing right now but with this heat and little rain it’s only about 4 inches high so it will be a little while until they will be out there. When we come for the dinner feeding, there’s almost always a few piles of untouched hay that they finish by the next morning. It’s a fine line where if we throw out too much & it rains or gets gross in there then we just wasted expensive hay. They are pretty much never without fresh hay & fresh cold water (we freeze large ice blocks on rotation in our deep freezer to throw in their water trough) at any point in time so we are going to stay the course because this is a marathon and not a sprint to fatten these girls up. Hope everyone is having a great weekend.

[omare]

You might also try hanging those slow feed hay nets to keep the hay out of the muck, but of course that would not replicate walking and grazing-maybe a flake or two scattered-or a few hung? I notice folks using them for 24-7 turn outs with success. .I think there are a ton of different styles designed for turnout, as it does cut down on hay wastage and used in lieu of round bale “houses”.
Lucky girls!

[Libby2563]

@DaveYGunN

until she looks a little less skinny, I just don’t feel, right about saddling her up.

I think you have good instincts here—she doesn’t seem to have gained as much condition in 4 months as I would have hoped. Maybe @Heinz_57 could give you some weight-gain tips? She did a fabulous job rehabbing a finicky redhead last year. Here’s the thread if you’d like to see: Another New Horse - It's Bo!. The before and after pics are really stunning.

Thanks for taking these girls in!

[MorganSercu]

If you can find it locally, you may want to get Triple Crown Senior Active feed for your TB mare. It has over (corrected) 1800 calories/pound, it is good for those with ulcers (she looks like a candidate) and she may digest it more efficiently too. Definitely separate the girls when feeding grain. The TC costs more but if it helps her put on the weight she needs, it is worth the price. Is there a TSC nearby? If not, TC Senior Gold (textured) is also good stuff. I just wonder if the extruded feed may do more for her progress.

Try putting the hay out in a clock formation. Whoever is boss may stick to the middle of the clock face and if not, no one gets cut off from hay because they are going around a circle rather than up and down a line.

I hope your pasture gets the perfect amount of rain for establishment!

[JB]

@MorganSercu

If you can find it locally, you may want to get Triple Crown Senior Active feed for your TB mare. It has over 1500 calories/pound, it is good for those with ulcers (she looks like a candidate) and she may digest it more efficiently too.

FWIW, regular Sr is a bit over 1500 as well. TC Senior Gold is 1800, with both gastric and hind gut support (regular has hind gut support only)

My only beef with the TC Sr Active is that it’s extruded, and like most extruded feeds in a 40lb bag (because 50lb is a lot bigger volume), but still similarly priced to the regular Sr

[MorganSercu]

I’m going to fix my post to reflect the calories/lb. I don’t know where my mind was, I know better! Thank you.

I was thinking the extruded feed may suit her better than textured, particularly if she has undiagnosed ulcers.

[BatCoach]

@DaveYGunN I bet they are going to LOVE the fly sheets and boots. Bugs are the worst! Thoroughbreds like Bonnie can be hard to get weight on. You might want to get a simple weight tape that will help track progress, they are not 100% accurate, but it helps provide a good baseline for determining if she is gaining lbs. It will also give an estimate of how much she weighs, since all feed dosing should be based on weight.

I had a Thoroughbred like Bonnie who required a lot more hay (alfalfa) and a different grain program than the other horses he was stabled with. He just had different needs than the others, so he had to get fed separately in order for him to gain the weight he needed. Sometimes I wished he was a chunky little pony who didn’t need so many calories, since it would have been much easier on my wallet LOL!

Stay cool! I bet Bonnie loves her cool baths.

[SuzieQNutter]

You can feed them their hard feeds in their stables. It is said it is better to have the feed bin on the ground to ward off ulcers so remove the prongs for putting on the wall.

That way you can feed them different feeds. The thoroughbred should be getting more calories than the Quarter horse.

It is also good to add water to the feeds. 1 to get more water into them. 2 to minimise the chance of choke.

[Aussie_2020]

A bit off topic but I listened to a podcast by a feed company about pelleted vs extruded. I came away a believer in extruded. Especially for older horses. It absorbs the water more quickly and thoroughly making chewing easier and safer (less chance of choke), and it is denser so you can feed a bit less. Important point with an older horse that chews slowly plus you’re not filling the gut with a much grain.

[Angela_Freda]

I’ve found for a horse of low weight/struggling to gain, that more frequent, smaller meals that are soaked (if they’ll eat it that way)meals can definitely help. A probiotic can also be a good addition if they’re looking unthrifty. Soaked alfalfa cubes or a flake or two of alfalfa hay can also be a good addition, especially if the gut might be upset (lots of changes in their lives for example).

And hay, hay and more hay (good quality of course) is the horse’s friend.
Getting it evaluated might be useful.
If they’re eating it this slowly, it may not be a good choice and thus a waste of money.
.

[JB]

@Aussie_2020

it is denser so you can feed a bit less.

Extruded means it’s “puffed” with air, it’s lighter, so by volume you feed more. That’s why most of them come in 40lb bags instead of 50, but are still more or less the same size as 50lb bags. Nutrition-wise, they aren’t more dense either. TC Sr has a 6lb feed rate (1000-1100lb horse. TC Sr Active, which is extruded, is pretty much the same. Sentinel Sr is extruded (one of the few that comes in a 50lb bag, and it’s lonnnng lol) has a maintenance feed rate of .4-.65lb/100lb. Both of those extruded feeds are .85lb/qt which is typical of extruded. TC Sr regular is 1.01lb/qt which is average for non-extruded feeds

Any differences in feeding rates are about the feed itself, rather than being extruded or not. There are several pelleted feeds that have a low 3lb feed rate for a 1000lb horse in no work

[Aussie_2020]

Don’t know what to tell you, the Dr that gave the podcast distinctly said that it was denser and you could feed less.

[JB]

without more context, not sure what to say. The evidence is in the facts about the products. Extruded feeds are less dense (weight, not nutrient) than pelleted and textured feeds because of the air in them. That’s what extrusion is/does, it pressurizes the mix as it goes through the die, and the sudden decrease in pressure on exit makes it “pop”, sort of like popcorn (even if it still looks like a pellets, or even dog kibble
https://equusmagazine.com/horse-care/extruded-feed-explained-29640

That air makes it lighter by volume

Anything else on “feed less” is about the nutrient density, and the feeding instructions for that feed.

[trubandloki]

I wonder if the point being made by speaker being referenced (by @Aussie_2020 ) was that since the horse can more easily chew the extruded feed, they can digest it better, so in the end they need less (by weight) than if someone is feeding something the horse does not break down as well…

I have heard that before.

I have also heard of people not feeding enough extruded because they give the same volume of what they were feeding a pelleted feed and they quickly learn that weight, not volume matters and they were giving their horses not near enough feed just using that same scoop.

[JB]

@trubandloki

I wonder if the point being made by speaker being referenced (by @Aussie_2020 ) was that since the horse can more easily chew the extruded feed, they can digest it better, so in the end they need less (by weight) than if someone is feeding something the horse does not break down as well…

That’s possible, yes, maybe they do better on 6lb of an extruded feed than they did on 8lb of a pelleted or textured feed. That’s not a given though, so it can’t be made as a blanket statement.

@trubandloki

I have also heard of people not feeding enough extruded because they give the same volume of what they were feeding a pelleted feed and they quickly learn that weight, not volume matters and they were giving their horses not near enough feed just using that same scoop.

the enormous issue with feeding in general - not weighing, or even checking the bag to see how many pounds they SHOULD be feeding

[Angela_Freda]

Appreciate you sharing that Equus article

“The extrusion process makes the starches and other nutrients in the feed easier for a horse to digest and absorb. Horses who have dental problems or digestive issues may do better on an extruded feed. In addition, the “airy” texture of extruded feeds means that a horse can be fed a larger quantity of food that provides fewer calories. This can be a significant benefit for an overweight horse who is on a restricted diet but still needs the satisfaction of chewing while his barnmates are being fed.”

[JB]

@Angela_Freda

In addition, the “airy” texture of extruded feeds means that a horse can be fed a larger quantity of food that provides fewer calories.

Yes, on a per-volume basis, the extruded feed is fewer pounds, aka on a per-pound basis the extruded is higher volume. But you feed based on pounds, not volume. If you’re supposed to feed 6lb a day, it doesn’t matter if it’s extruded or pelleted or textured, it needs to be 6lb.

The extruded will be more volume, which may not be a good thing for the underweight horse. If the horse is overweight and shouldn’t get 6lb, then don’t feed that food, OR, feed 3lb plus 1/2lb or so of a ration balancer.