Liberty Training

[LawsofMurph]

Just to throw in my two cents…
My nearly 24/7 pastured horse (only comes in to eat) managed to get ulcers. You can’t just assume something won’t happen because of xyz circumstances.
And in my, albeit limited, experience, mysterious pain generally means a problem. In this case I would assume the infection has spread.
This may be my ignorance showing, but isn’t fistulas withers sort of like an abcess? I feel like I read somewhere that you should lance them if they haven’t burst. Once again, that was probably just ignorant ramblings.

Anyway, everything I’ve ever read about fistulas withers indicates it’s an infection regardless of whether or not our has burst and bute will not help in the long run. The horse needs an antibiotic in order to truly treat it.

I’ve known old school horse people to treat everything with bute and that simply will not work.

As far as ground work goes, if the horse is as adept as you say then I second Warwick Schiller. But, I also would not make it do any sort of work until it is 100% better. Not just “halfway healed withers”.

[dappledreamer]

[QUOTE=RxCate;7967519]
training at horse AT Liberty? Or a coined method called Liberty Training ? There’s a difference.

AT Liberty meaning horse is untethered and roaming free in a pasture/arena while you attempt to make it do what you want. If this is what you’re aiming for, please don’t.

As you were told in your other 2 threads, A) Horsie needs to heal. and B) you need a trainer.[/QUOTE]

@dungrulla;7967615

Please don’t tell young impressionable children about Parelli or anyone else with “how to train your horse” videos. It’s a good way to get hurt. You can’t learn to train animals by watching a video. I hate Cesar Milan for the same reason.

@dungrulla;7967632

In-home training programs aren’t safe. That was my point

[QUOTE=Mosey_2003;7967642]Well yeah, we all know that It’s the only option she’s willing to pursue, so what else ya gonna recommend?

Quite honestly, Parelli’s 7 Games really aren’t that bad a thing to work through. Not inherently dangerous. It’s after that he gets sketchy.[/QUOTE]

@Mosey_2003;7968023

We DID step it up. Deaf ears.

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7970780]Actually Calvincrowe correctly reading comprehended for you.

And what on earth vet puts a horse on just bute for an infection? I am guessing the googlefu for fabricating a veterinary interaction out of thin air failed to turn up "SMZ"s.

This is such BS.

Has anyone else noticed that every time OP is questioned she back pedals with some marginally plausible claim? I am in search of confidence for riding and training my horse. I meant, not for training, but for confidently assessing the withers situation before commencing training. Oh, the vet comes for their feet twice a year. Wait, I meant the farrier. Oh, sure, we had a vet out for the withers. Yep he put her on 1,000 pints of bute a day for the next six years.

Next up she will say “Oh, you mean the (probably 15h ish QH size) horse would most likely be seriously ill or dead if it got 4gms of bute a day for weeks? I meant the horse is getting 10ccs of SMZs a day.”
Then: “I meant 20 SMZ pills.”
Then: “And actually it’s a 19h Shire running around in Montana here so 4gms of bute is fine.”

waaaaiiit for it…[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7971159]A. I don’t for a second believe a word this OP says anymore. I call teenager/really sad adult who wishes they had a horse playing makebelieve on the internetz.

B. If she really is for real and is as inept as you portray 15 year olds to be, she has no business owning two horses with largely uninvolved and uninterested parents. There are plenty of 15 year olds who are a billion times more responsible, dedicated, and polite than this one, who do a fine job of caring for horses at home.
If a real horse really does live at the epicenter of this train wreck, my loyalties lie with the horse. If OP is to be believed there is a horse out there with a fistulous wither and its stomach blown out by insane doses of bute. I refuse to sweep that under the rug of “oh it’s just a different culture.” No I will not be nice about it. If you are too immature to perform the most basic horse care correctly you don’t deserve to have a living animal entirely dependent on you.

Meanwhile in another thread you are snarking that someone is doing “sloppy horse handling” because a horse swung around and bit them suddenly, but this yahoo who displays such a level of repeated incompetence that the most plausible explanation is that they have never had a horse and are making it up all together, this one we should be nice to.

Maybe I’ll be 15 too today![/QUOTE]
Just be understanding.Not rude. Thank you

I erased some of what I said becase people were saying it was coming across wrong.Sorry if I have offended anybody. So me being on her side makes me automatically guilty of “multiple accounts”?

[tikihorse2]

[QUOTE=dappledreamer;8004219]
GOOD GRIEF…REALLY PEOPLE?!Look at yourself!What kind of posts are these?RUDE?IRRESPONSIBLE?Maybe not irresponsible, but very IMMATURE.NOT EVERYBODY CAN GET A TRAINER, I CAN"T, and I’m sure not everyone else can.You guys are lucky, that you can get a trainer any day anytime any night. Pretty much whenever you need a lesson sounds like. Lucky you.Sounds like some people are better off learning on their own though.I learned to ride when I was young, at home.Never had lessons, would love them, but don’t have them.You can learn from mistakes at home that makes you every bit as good, see a trainer doesn’t let you make mistakes sometimes.At home, you can make a mistake, correct, repeat the mistake over and over and correct it and then finally you get the hang of it.Even then you make mistakes.Mistakes make you stronger, and gives your horse and you a deeper bond.ALL YOU COTH ARE SAYING GET A TRAINER GET A TRAINER,THE ONLY WAY TO LEARN IS GET A TRAINER,GET A BETTER VET, YOUR VET IS CRAPPY,GET A CHIROPRACTER,GET A TRAINER,YOUR NOT LISTENING BECAUSE YOU DON’T GET A TRAINER.What encouragement,all she is looking for is answers…Really people, get a grip. My vet gave me bute for my horse too, and it worked and is working.The horse got 2scoops a day for 4 weeks, then 1scoop a day for 2 more weeks, now its down to 1/2 or so every now and then. meupatdoes, you are being insanely ridiculous.Seems like you have lots of time to answer her posts, but why aren’t you out riding your horses?Same to everyone else… 1,000 pints of bute, wow meupatdoes, really.Have you ever had a horse that had fistoulous withers?Seems like you want to kill yours with 1,000 pints.So why are you owning one?Just showing how ridiculous that is. Wish is very responsible,which is why she came here in the first place. You know, I wonder why she came here thinking these COTH were responsible people, if you are, you have a great way of showing it. 7 pages long of crappy ridiculous statements from you guys is like wow incredible, shows how much you loove bashing people up that do things different than you.I would love to have all those fancy facilities for my horses too, but I can’t since I don’t have that kind of money.I’m content the way I am though, so are my horses. LET ME SAY SOMETHING,THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A HOME TRAINING METHOD. I use clinton anderson. You don’t have to have a fancy trainer to train your horses for you, if you do, then you must not like the pleasure/pain of starting a horse.I have a friend who trained hers at home, and guess what.she’s got the gentlest horses ever, and she is training another right now. Yes you can learn to train a horse off a video. But you have to have experience to train a horse in the first place.HOW MANY OF YOU EVER TRAINED YOUR HORSE BY YOURSELF?Sounds like the horse had lots of time to heal, which is why she is moving forward with the mare’s training, seriously…why can’t you people see that?Now kudos to the VERY FEW people who are actually being polite and ecouraging, thank you for showing COTH hospitality. Mosey_2003 and dungrulla and RxKate I don’t get why you have to be so mean. So what if people like Parelli? Thats not your piece of cheese, fine. I could be mean about what method you use too.Did she even say she would use Parelli?No.So what are you getting at?She isn’t young and impressionable, for pete’s sake, she is 15.I went to her horse channel and yes, its real.Sorry to ruin that for you.If you don’t believe me, thats okay.I’m just shocked and disappointed at you guys for being so rude to her, its not her fault she can’t get a trainer. My parents didn’t allow a trainer either, said my riding was good enough.So I know how you feel Wish_Upon_A_Star2000. I know what its like to be in that situation, and with people against my every post, don’t let these people scare you or give you grey hairs, or don’t let them make your confidence slide.Don’t let them bully you around. Thanks again to the few people who were actually nice and polite since thats the real COTH hospitality, not bullying and being so negative.Again I was very disappointed at what some people were saying… Just be understanding.Not rude. Thank you[/QUOTE]

The houseguests have arrived!

Kim

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=tikihorse2;8004249]
The houseguests have arrived!

Kim[/QUOTE]
But didn’t bring their paragraphs as a hostess gift. Pity.

[Wish_Upon_a_Star2000]

@Gorgonzala: She doesn’t react NEAR as bad, and alot of the time, she acts all chill about it. The vet is still yet to come actually. He’ll probably look at her withers, and for any other spots and hurts. Which would be her back. 0f course she’s in pain if it’s a no-no spot, but that’s only when I press harder (like you would to check for suspected saddle not fitting; two fingers pressed and running along her back). So, we will try to get the vet out soon.

Angela, he has experience. If he wouldn’t, and wouldn’t know what he was doing, (as you are suggesting,) he wouldn’t be as highly recommended and/or successful as he is and continues to be. Everyone, and I repeat, EVERYONE, has nothing but good to say about him. We chose him because of his experience, and everything he’s done to help other people with their animals. Even when there was apparently no chance for the poor animal, he took it home, took time out of his busy schedule,researched everything he could about the problem that horse had, and after a little he found what he thought would maybe work, (and ALL of this was during hours and hours-long of nothing but WORK)and that horse lived til he was 30 yrs old! So he saved a horse, (I’m sure there are LOTS of others) and plenty of cows, and other livestock. Now THAT’S what I call highly commendable…

[Frizzle]

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8004293]
But didn’t bring their paragraphs as a hostess gift. Pity.[/QUOTE]

It’s, like, the first rule of houseguestery that all grammar and punctuation rules must be thrown out the window. :applause:

[Angela_Freda]

And yet he’s treating Fistulas Withers with Bute.
People thought Bundy was a nice guy…

[dappledreamer]

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8004293]
But didn’t bring their paragraphs as a hostess gift. Pity.[/QUOTE]

@Frizzle;8004344

It’s, like, the first rule of houseguestery that all grammar and punctuation rules must be thrown out the window. :applause:

[QUOTE=tikihorse2;8004249]The houseguests have arrived!

Kim[/QUOTE]

oh i’m sorry…? I will edit it then for your sake.Happy? But why do you guys have to bash people up for doing things different? Just curious…

Pennywell Bay Frizzle and tikihorse

[Emilia]

So, Wish, you initially lost your password for Dappledreamer or is this some kind of acute case of split personality disorder?

Those two styles of writing are nearly identical, so are the problems. Your horse Cowgirl is sort of a dapple gray.

I could not believe, when after x pages on this thread and y pages on the other one, you would still pop the question “So no one has any ideas for groundwork exercises?”

It is quite infuriating, I must say.

I would like you to know, that this kind of behavior lowers the chances of any future new COTHer to get a thorough advice.

Some of these future COTHers might be in a real need and receptive to suggestions, but they might never get any, because many of us just got burnt one too many times.

[dappledreamer]

[QUOTE=emilia;8004467]
So, Wish, you initially lost your password for Dappledreamer or is it some kind of acute case of split personality disorder?

Those two styles of writing are nearly identical, so are the problems. Your horse Cowgirl is sort of a dapple gray.

I could not believe, when after x pages on this thread and y pages on the other one, you would still pop the question “So no one has any ideas for groundwork exercises?”

It is quite infuriating, I must say.

I would like you to know, that this kind of behavior lowers the chances of any future new COTHer to get a thorough advice.

Some of these future COTHers might be in a real need and receptive to suggestions, but they might never get any, because many of us just got burnt one too many times.

ETA: Or is this sis talking?[/QUOTE]

I’m dappledreamer… is that a problem? I’m just wondering why some people have to be that way toward wish since I’m not judgemental… and some people are being slightly rude and wont let it go…

[Emilia]

[QUOTE=dappledreamer;8004500]
I’m dappledreamer… is that a problem? I’m just wondering why some people have to be that way toward wish since I’m not judgemental… and some people are being slightly rude and wont let it go…[/QUOTE]

Okey doukey, DD/Wish.

I do not have the patience of Meupatdoes to explain to you exactly, how I arrived to that conclusion and it does not really matter anyway.

Can I be wrong? Of course, I can, but I doubt it and it makes me really sad tonight.

[showidaho]

[QUOTE=emilia;8004523]
Okey doukey, DD/Wish.

I do not have the patience of Meupatdoes to explain to you exactly, how I arrived to that conclusion and it does not really matter anyway.

Can I be wrong? Of course, I can, but I doubt it and it makes me really sad tonight.[/QUOTE]

She’s a troll. I’m over it. I reported her and her multiple usernames. It’s best not to feed the troll anymore. I can’t believe I bothered to PM and attempt to help. I’m disappointed in myself for not going with my gut on this one.

[dappledreamer]

[QUOTE=showidaho;8004531]
She’s a troll. I’m over it. I reported her and her multiple usernames. It’s best not to feed the troll anymore. I can’t believe I bothered to PM and attempt to help. I’m disappointed in myself for not going with my gut on this one.[/QUOTE]
I AM DAPPLEDREAMER-not WISH!!!

[dappledreamer]

[QUOTE=showidaho;8004531]
She’s a troll. I’m over it. I reported her and her multiple usernames. It’s best not to feed the troll anymore. I can’t believe I bothered to PM and attempt to help. I’m disappointed in myself for not going with my gut on this one.[/QUOTE]

No, thats good you tried to help her, I have no idea what you said to her! I am not wish_upon_a star, and I can see why you think I am (since I have two horses and also a gray named cowgirl, and a mare i keep for a friend that got fistolous withers[wonder])… but I’m not!!!Why is it when I put my two sense in I get accused of multiple accounts? I asked for help in my posts and people have answered, and I appreciated their help!So me having two mares makes me automatically wish and now you’r accusing me of being her?I don’t get it. I have tried helping too, and others get mad at me too.They refuse to acknowledge that i dont have a trainer too, that i should.And believe me I would love lessons, but its not on the budget right now. I can’t help it that I’m a penny pinching budget.I’m sorry if I gave you the impression that I’m wish, but I am not. I hope the moderators help me clear that up.Its an unfortunate misunderstanding and I’m sorry if I gave you the wrong impressions.My fault.

[dappledreamer]

Why do you think I am her?

[dappledreamer]

SO since I’m on her side I am automatically double accounting??I’m not. ask the mods!!

[Laurierace]

You are going to ask the mods if you are you or you are her? If you don’t know the answer to that question, that probably is the answer to that question!

[SuzieQNutter]

Dappledreamer why are you only worried about that and have not put down your advice for what she can do.

It is called Fistulous Withers because of the fistulars under the skin.

I will put it in laymans terms for you. It is tubes of bacteria under the skin that go very deep, intertwine and come up in different places under the skin.

Bute is a pain reliever that also reduces inflammation (swelling) it does not kill bacteria.

The bacteria in Fistulous Withers is the same bacteria that is found in Poll Evil (between their ears) and is also the same bacteria that causes abortions in cows. Can you see that bute would not stop abortions in cows? The same as it will not stop or cure Fistulas Withers?

No ground work is offered as it is cruel to leave a horse with Fistulous Withers growing inside them and it is cruel to work a horse in pain, even if it is being masked by bute.

The new spot you can’t touch on her back is probably a new tube from the Fistulous Withers to reach her back. It is growing inside her while nothing is being done. Yes giving bute equals nothing being done.

If you read back I have given advice on how to get out of the situation of parents saying no.

There comes a time that you can not blame you parents or how you were raised. You take control of your life and the buck stops with you.

[dappledreamer]

[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8004569]
Dappledreamer why are you only worried about that and have not put down your advice for what she can do.

It is called Fistulous Withers because of the fistulars under the skin.

I will put it in laymans terms for you. It is tubes of bacteria under the skin that go very deep, intertwine and come up in different places under the skin.

Bute is a pain reliever that also reduces inflammation (swelling) it does not kill bacteria.

The bacteria in Fistulous Withers is the same bacteria that is found in Poll Evil (between their ears) and is also the same bacteria that causes abortions in cows. Can you see that bute would not stop abortions in cows? The same as it will not stop or cure Fistulas Withers?

No ground work is offered as it is cruel to leave a horse with Fistulous Withers growing inside them and it is cruel to work a horse in pain, even if it is being masked by bute.

The new spot you can’t touch on her back is probably a new tube from the Fistulous Withers to reach her back. It is growing inside her while nothing is being done. Yes giving bute equals nothing being done.

If you read back I have given advice on how to get out of the situation of parents saying no.

There comes a time that you can not blame you parents or how you were raised. You take control of your life and the buck stops with you.[/QUOTE]

I am not wish_upon_a_star!! My friends mare that I keep had fistolous withers too!I do know that when you work up slowly, and keep the horse slow it doesnt hurt them!! ITs a great way to build trust while getting to know the horse! I just saw them giving her a hard time, and I didn’t agree with many of the people as they were being harsh, and maybe that was just me ? She was wondering about groundwork and how to gain confidence… I am not an expert on groundwork, which is why I didn’t comment on that.BUt what I understood was that it was a few months ago that she had fistolous withers? I didnt read over the whole thing, I thought thuis was a community where people don’t fight, they give advice instead of tearing them down.Its not her fault that she can’t get a trainer.And I know what its like to have parents who think them things aren’t necessary as I was raised up strict Mennonite.

[dappledreamer]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8004568]
You are going to ask the mods if you are you or you are her? If you don’t know the answer to that question, that probably is the answer to that question![/QUOTE]

     ask the moderators to see if I am Wish_Upon_aStar.