Marilyn Little's horse bleeds yet again. Red rag to a groom.

Money talks to every elite rider in some form or fashion no matter the “wuv” they profess for their horses. Sponsors and owners of said horses “wuv” winning, period. Winning sells products; owners get bragging rights at the next cocktail party. Rider produces win to keep horse and sponsor to pay for competitions no matter the discipline. It is the HOW the win is achieved which is what is front and center in this case. FEI stewards appear to be lacking a spine to call her out for consistency in bleeding in MORE than ONE (1) horse at MORE than ONE (1) event.

Her supporters have turned a blind eye to the obvious. That speaks to their idea of what is ok with their conscience…we all get star struck. A blind eye equates to complicity.

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I left a national US-based horse show organization entirely over shenanigans between a powerful BOD member, the President, and a pet Pro. I was a lowly committee member who was attempting to inform the PRO about the RULES and was absolutely torn to pieces for doing so. Cussed out by the Pro, ripped a new one for not knowing the rules, not following the rules. The BOD member accidentally cc’d me on an email and labeled me ‘a shi*-stirring busybody’ -

OOPS.

But the thing is, I was right. And guess what, before the next year-end event, their rules were made more clear, and their showbills, documentation, etc reinforced that I was right. Go figure.

When you’re left crying in your horse’s stall, embarrassed and hurt and feeling less than dirt, yeah- it destroys your opinion of said organization. NOT eventing related, but yeah- people are people, and crappy things get done to preserve ‘reputations.’

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Officials probably don’t want to be “that person” at the dinner parties, meetings etc. With the US coach standing right there praising ML, would the official want to be that person and say otherwise? Too many spineless ass kissers is all I can think of.

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I find it interesting that she has 30 supporting comments on her personal FB post about this incident, yet every other post I see about it elsewhere has more than 500 comments…

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That’s because someone went through with the delete button last night, and removed all the negative comments. Guess her feelings were getting hurt … . eyeroll

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There are a few not positive comments. Funny that my comment asking Marilyn and her supporters to back a rule change for a zero tolerance for blood in the mouth in FEI sport was deleted…I actually think it’s because it sounded too rational and that’s way more threatening than the you’re a big meanie with the scary bits posts.

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Links?

I’ve been following this whole recent incident fairly closely, discussing with a close friend, but otherwise staying silent. I have never thought highly of ML, but I will say I never really looked into past events, partially because stuff like this gets me wound up. I can’t handle people who bit up… Let alone someone riding in the contraptions she uses. Now, she is the elite, I am not. So therefore I give a “bitting pass” because theoretically they should be able to use that kind of bitting and know the reason for it while not causing any harm.

So while following this I’ve clicked on the previously referenced youtube link and watched the life feed replay from this weekend’s XC run. The yanking. W.T.F. is my first thought. Then, my second thought was to continue watching other XC runs by her. I’ve found something fairly interesting. I don’t know the exact events of the other bleeding incidents, but I watched her OI run on Kitty just 2 and a half months ago and it was from what I could tell, YANK FREE! The horse had no head shaking, and looked happy. I watched her West Indie run and sure enough. Yanking. I watched a few others. The Demeter runs were YANK FREE (No blood from those!). So, it has occured to me that it seems like she either A: Can’t handle the pressure of a high calibur event (I can’t verify the other bleedings occured at high calibur quickly) or B: She can’t handle a horse that is a handfull on XC. Of all of the rounds I’ve watched, she has consistent horses she YANKS on, and other she rides very calmly (and nicely I may add!). Which makes me all that much MORE mad about this because she has the ability to be a REALLY amazing rider it seems! But something is happening in her to cause this reaction, and YANK combined with the bits/tack fit is causing injury.

This was meant to pose as a question… although now that I’m done with it I’m not 100% sure what the question was even supposed to be. I guess I came to my own answer… But any other insite on this specific item??? YouTube her other rides… How irritating. And disgusting.

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My husband really doesn’t like it when I talk directly about him on COTH, so I’m going to keep this brief. He is an EqDT and does work at some of the largest show barns in the Mid-Atlantic. He is constantly educating his clients on the evils of tight nose bands. It seems to be common practice at many barns to get the nose band as tight as possible. This absolutely drives him nuts. If the horse is sharp at all, a tight nose band can literally push the cheek into those razor sharp teeth. In extreme cases, it can even cause nerve damage. In our household, horse’s mouths are a constant topic of discussion. The last few days have been spent discussing potential causes for multiple horses under one rider to bleed while being ridden. It could be something as simple as the professional working on her horse’s teeth is not performing quality work or the horses grow a bit faster than the schedule they are on. Ask any Veterinarian or EqDT if they have seen bad work performed on UL horses. I would bet money almost all of them have been surprised opening up an UL horse’s mouth and finding a train wreck. Horses can be VERY stoic about pain in their mouths. It could be the horses have a condition causing the oral tissues to be more sensitive and bleed easily. It could be the bits being used on these horses do not fit them correctly. It could be any number of things that are not caused by abusive practices. That does not remove the fact that these horses are bleeding during competition and they were not withdrawn.

I repeat again, if a horse is actively bleeding, it is injured and should not compete. Period. Yes, that would be so sad that someone has worked their entire life to reach a certain level, have the horse bite itself, and get eliminated. However, we are these creature’s caretakers. It is our job as owners, riders, and trainers to look out for the horse’s best interest. I’m not stupid, I realize how much money this involves. I will never believe that money is more important that our animal’s welfare. When did we get so far off track that this even needs to be discussed?

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I will,continue to contact sponsors . I’ve emailed the USEF. My concern is that in,a few days this will blow over. Again. Honestly it makes me ticked off to think that the ptb seem to be waiting for us minions to just let this go and move on. The witch hunt phrase is annoying. All I can think of is her horses. And how they are treated. Everyday. The bloody mouths at competitions . Again I am not interested in bashing her. I just want her to stop mistreating her horses. And yes it is frustrating to think this will all go away. I googled her name and articles pop up from 2 and 3 years ago that read as if it were yesterday. This is shameful.
eta - lockmeadows - excellent post. At the end of the day it’s not that we are anti mlm, we are pro horse.

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This is true. An online forum is an ‘interactive computer/internet service’ and not a ‘publisher’. There is a legal distinction. An individual poster, however, can be held liable for defamation. But this would not be COTH’s concern.

What COTH - the publisher, as in news outlet, as in equestrian news media - should be concerned with is following up on alittlegrey’s claims. Is there a story there? Well, it’s alleged horse abuse at a high profile barn. Sounds like news material to me. That’s what serious media does - follow-up tips and investigate. I mean, horse abuse/welfare is of huge concern to all equestrians.

Who thinks that will happen? Anyone?

(I’m an inveterate news tipster on a wide range of topics to all sorts of outlets. My background lends itself to this and I enjoy passing stories along, although I don’t do tabloid/personal stuff ever. Just last week I sent an anonymous tip to a serious industry outlet at about 10pm and their top relevant-section reporter published a story with a striking amount of original reporting the very next morning. Just throwing that out there for comparison. When a story is important, a serious news outlet follows it up.)

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I guess this is where diligence comes into play. If folks are truly passionate about seeing changes, this won’t blow over. If we keep emailing, asking for updates, and keep the subject fresh and alive, I don’t think it will blow over. Posts like Bobby’s on facebook are a rallying call. Each day there is news about another sponsor replying, that keeps people going. It shows that there is power to our voices, and voices do bring change. Whether slowly or not. Its something.

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I feel like we are getting to the point in “the aftermath” where there is plenty of agreement among those concerned that a problem (problems) exists and needs to be fixed but no consensus about the exact problem or how to fix it.

Is the problem tight nosebands or bleeding mouths? Is the problem general horse abuse by Marilyn Little? Is the problem the licensed officials passing off as ok something they should card? Is the problem black or burgundy towels and grooms getting to horses before vets or stewards after XC?

Some think the existing rules could/should work if used properly, some want a “no blood” rule in accordance with FEI dressage and jumpers, and there are some other ideas around requiring a vet/steward check before dismounting from xc. Some are making this a witch hunt about ML.

What problem are we trying to solve? What can the most people rally around?

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A bit off track but I this whole discussion reminded of this intervew with Albert Voorn article on show jumping

http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2018/03/albert-voorn-showjumping-good-bad-ugly/

"And you know, when I see things at the show ground that in my opinion are unacceptable, I stop them, when it should be the steward. The steward doesn’t because the person who is doing something unacceptable is invited the show committee, and maybe he has paid for a €10,000 table, so that person is not going to be punished. The steward who is punishing that person is not going to be reinvited to that show, and very quickly that steward will have no work anymore."

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Interesting, while watching Badminton dressage during Mark Todds test the commentators remarked that his horses mouth was more active and open than usual. Pammy commented that was because the nosebands are now being placed looser. Hmmmmm not exactly sure what she meant and if it was in anyway a reaction by the riders to the fallout with ML at Kentucky. If so, than maybe positive things are happening as a result of the backlash.

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This is what I sent to the FEI

As I’m sure you are aware, we in the United States Equestrian Community are having a fairly widespread conversation regarding the results of the Land Rover CCI**** in Kentucky this past weekend that also decided our national championship.

The horse of the third place finisher (and now our national champion), American Marilyn Little, was deemed to have bit her own mouth prior to running Saturday’s cross country. As per the current FEI rules regarding cuts in the mouth, the competitor summoned the ground jury and consulted with veterinarians, it was decided that the cut was the result of a bite, and not related to equipment or rider error, and the rider and horse were allowed to proceed on cross country.

From that point, the blood is clearly visible in the horse’s mouth on course, throughout the course.

The horse’s mouth is wiped after finishing, and another veterinarian inspection clears the horse again, but then, the veterinarians were aware the horse’s mouth was cut and bleeding prior to running cross country, so a secondary inspection clearing an issue they had already deemed acceptable seems a bit circular.

I think the issue I am having is that we have a zero tolerance for blood from spur rubs. Initially I was reluctant to get behind that change, but upon reflection I have to agree that everything must be done not only to ensure horse welfare, but also to protect the public image of the sport throughout the world. I worked for a Brazilian rider. I know Stephan Barcha and have spent significant time around him at shows in Europe. He is lovely and kind and let’s be frank, like five feet tall. It was shocking when he caused a minuscule spur rub during the Olympics in Rio. But he did, and was subsequently disqualified. It happens. It does not in any way diminish these riders. They are brilliant and accomplished. But the horses and the legacy of the sport must always come first.

We do not tolerate a minuscule spot of blood from a spur rub. It demonstrates our love and desire to protect our partners.

While I was at the 2015 European Championships, Edward Gal’s horse bit his mouth. Gal pulled the horse up immediately and asked to be excused. Because we are horsemen. There is no reason whatsoever to compete a horse with a cut and bleeding mouth, regardless of the venue or the prize.

The incidents of horses biting their own mouths are incredibly rare. It is so rare that in a lifetime of sport, mostly spent around FEI riders and horses, the only incident I have personally witnessed it Gal’s 2015 incident. The image of the foam turning pink on Gal’s horse’s mouth was striking and unsettling, probably more so because it is so uncommon. And watching Marilyn Little run cross country in Kentucky, the bloody foaming mouth was no less unsettling.

If an athlete is hurt, in whatever capacity, they have the option to withdraw. Horses do not have that option. If a horse is injured prior to competition, and is ascertained to be cut and bleeding at the mouth, it is on us as horsemen to withdraw. We are their stewards and their friends; the more stoic and talented an animal, the more we must not allow ourselves to take advantage of that heart.

If a horse is bleeding at the mouth on course, in any FEI discipline, it must and should be rung out and eliminated. It protects the horse and it protects a sport already too often under fire.

If a horse has a cut and bleeding mouth prior to competition, it should not be competing that day.

The image of a horse dripping blood from its mouth is not one that protects and preserves the sport.

Asking an animal to proceed or continue while bleeding at the mouth, regardless of the cause, is selfish, if not cruel.

I would ask you to consider a rule change that makes bleeding from the mouth an immediate disqualification, and give your ground jury the ability to enforce this rule. This demonstrates a commitment not only to ensure the welfare of the horse, but also to preserving the integrity and perception of the sport.

When Jur Vrieling was asked about his decision not to take a whip on course after his disqualification in Rio he said “Today I did not take a whip. I just didn’t want to. It’s not going to fix it if he stops. He’s my best friend, and I want to keep him like that.”

We shouldn’t have to have a rule that says we don’t compete or continue to compete when our friends are cut and bleeding in the mouth, but clearly we have to, because every rider is not Jur Vrieling.

Thank you very much for your consideration.

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Ladyj79 and woodhillsmanhattan - your letters are eloquent and powerful.

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Yours letters were so great…mine was more… This is a terrible image for our sport, it is terrible for the horses, and terrible for spectators…do something lol

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Where is this?

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