Marilyn Little's horse bleeds yet again. Red rag to a groom.

[ladyj79]

Oh Cousin…

“the view that a minor injury should disqualify riders who spend an enormous amount of time and money to reach their goals does not reflect the reality we face as horsemen and the policies this view leads to represent an existensional threat to all horse sports.”

So riders and owners and sponsors shouldn’t lose out just because the horse is injured. Awesome. Like, Marilyn isn’t injured, the horse is. Marilyn can do whatever she wants when she is injured, the horse apparently needs further rules to protect it from people who have, you know, spent time and money. UGH.

So not being able to run a bloody mouthed horse is an “existensional”(?) threat to horse sport. Dude, seek help.

And this is why it has to be a firm rule on blood in the mouth.

[Fulmer]

@ladyj79

Oh Cousin…

“the view that a minor injury should disqualify riders who spend an enormous amount of time and money to reach their goals does not reflect the reality we face as horsemen and the policies this view leads to represent an existensional threat to all horse sports.”

So riders and owners and sponsors shouldn’t lose out just because the horse is injured. Awesome. Like, Marilyn isn’t injured, the horse is. Marilyn can do whatever she wants when she is injured, the horse apparently needs further rules to protect it from people who have, you know, spent time and money. UGH.

So not being able to run a bloody mouthed horse is an “existensional”(?) threat to horse sport. Dude, seek help.

And this is why it has to be a firm rule on blood in the mouth.

From the same post - I feel like this is the underlying truth, here:

Even in the relatively benign sport of dressage, at Global this winter, horses were eliminated from competition, sometimes at a rate of three or four a day because the horses bit themselves in warm up or during competition. This is not abuse but the riders and owners and the horses are bing [sic] punished as though it is. This alone has a chilling effect on all entries in sport.

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[ladyj79]

This man is delusional and thinks horses are vehicles of our own egos. His words, and knowing they represent too many people, are to me what is most chilling.

And GREAT JOB GLOBAL!!! (Although I bet like everything else from Cousin, this is an exaggeration, not that it matters).

ETA I have another comeback: this man is an existential threat to me keeping my lunch down. Zing!

[Jealoushe]

People were curious what UL riders thought? Check this out. Especially sad to see a very famous UL groom agreeing with him.

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.holling.5/posts/776951789168649

[Denali6298]

I bought my horse with the intention of getting back into competing… this thread, has made me really just be content schooling. I am shocked at the reaction of people with financial and political power in the industry.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

@Jealoushe

People were curious what UL riders thought? Check this out. Especially sad to see a very famous UL groom agreeing with him.

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.holling.5/posts/776951789168649

Weeelll, maybe he should be a little more explicit for us armchair quarterbacks on what the damage will be.

[BigMama1]

@EventerAJ

I don’t know that it would “greatly” impact the sport, but I would hate to be that one rider caught out for a truly accidental, incidental one time bit of blood (& horse pronounced OK by official vet) that would be DQ’d under a no-tolerance rule. A lot of stars have to align to make it to a CCI, a lot of entry fees, travel expenses, miles of conditioning, balancing fitness and soundness and funds…I would hate to be the one driving home, out thousands of dollars and knowing I “wasted” those miles on my horse because the GJ saw a teeny tiny spot of blood that essentially was unnoticed by my horse…I don’t want to see a rider with stellar horsemanship who has a single occurrence of a bitten lip be punished/DQ’d by completely inflexible rules.

.

This is what happens to FEI dressage riders, even in the case of a truly accidental spur nick or anything minor. Zero tolerance for blood. Why should the rules be different for eventing?

[AffirmedHope]

@Jealoushe

People were curious what UL riders thought? Check this out. Especially sad to see a very famous UL groom agreeing with him.

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.ho…76951789168649

I think I’m more disgusted at the people staunchly supporting and somehow justifying this than I am of ML. At least she knows what she’s doing. The people defending her are purposefully being delusional and pretending not to see it. “Back down arm chair quarterbacks” really?

[Jealoushe]

Caring about the welfare and holding officials accountable… how dare we. Almost makes me think ULRs have a dark secret they don’t want out.

[KingoftheRoad]

@ladyj79

Oh Cousin…

“the view that a minor injury should disqualify riders who spend an enormous amount of time and money to reach their goals does not reflect the reality we face as horsemen and the policies this view leads to represent an existensional threat to all horse sports.”

Where is this from? What did I miss?

Never mind, I found it and it’s nauseating. It’s funny how anyone using a computer to voice an opinion is automatically a cyber-bully. Would it be better if we used snail mail? Or passenger pigeons?

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[JER]

It’s interesting to see who argues against horse welfare and FEI rules enforcement.

[Denali6298]

@AffirmedHope

I think I’m more disgusted at the people staunchly supporting and somehow justifying this than I am of ML. At least she knows what she’s doing. The people defending her are purposefully being delusional and pretending not to see it. “Back down arm chair quarterbacks” really?

This. So much this. I was telling my SO about all this last night and he asked why I would want to be a part of such a system. He said why not just ride your horse and be happy. You can go school right?

That is the non-horse public opinion. And he’s right. I’ll try to change the system as much as a little no name like myself can. I’m just glad at this point my trainer has publicly denounced this and I am not forced to look for a new one.

[luckycricket123]

@KingoftheRoad

Where is this from? What did I miss?

Never mind, I found it and it’s nauseating. It’s funny how anyone using a computer to voice an opinion is automatically a cyber-bully. Would it be better if we used snail mail? Or passenger pigeons?

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Can you share the source? I haven’t seen this

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

@KingoftheRoad

Where is this from? What did I miss?

Never mind, I found it and it’s nauseating. It’s funny how anyone using a computer to voice an opinion is automatically a cyber-bully. Would it be better if we used snail mail? Or passenger pigeons?

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That came from here:
https://www.facebook.com/patrick.g.mcgaughan/posts/10217184582952458
(not sure if this has been linked upthread or not, pardon me if it’s a repeat).

As has been noted, he has a family connection to ML.

Read the comments!! Interesting to see a couple of the names that have chimed in. :eek::eek::eek::eek:

[mg]

Hell, even if yellow cards were appropriately issued instead of an automatic DQ, that would be a step in the right direction. Sara Kozumplik Murphy got a yellow card for accidentally wearing spurs that rotated in the wrong direction, for crying out loud.

[JER]

From the Packy post:

The view that a minor injury should disqualify riders who spend an enormous amount of time and money to reach their goals does not reflect the reality we face as horsemen and the policies this view leads to represent an existensional threat to all horse sports.

But isn’t that the concept of horse welfare: that the horse’s well-being is valued above and separately from the competitive goals of the rider?

[Fulmer]

@JER

From the Packy post:

But isn’t that the concept of horse welfare: that the horse’s well-being is valued above and separately from the competitive goals of the rider?

No, apparently not…because, according to this line of reason: horse welfare < rider time and money…

So, I suppose it is valued separately, just not above…

[Simba27]

SKM is a class act. Good for her.

[OverandOnward]

@JER

From the Packy post:

The view that a minor injury should disqualify riders who spend an enormous amount of time and money to reach their goals does not reflect the reality we face as horsemen and the policies this view leads to represent an existensional threat to all horse sports.

But isn’t that the concept of horse welfare: that the horse’s well-being is valued above and separately from the competitive goals of the rider?

Packy, dear, don’t even go there. Come spend some time in the LL dungeons before you even pull that one out.

Had a friend disqualified in BN dressage warm-up because her horse was a bit flinchy on the rocky ground around it. Even though the vet was called over to watch her horse warm-up in the sand arena and said there was nothing wrong with the mare. The judge had decided, the TD backed the judge, and that was that.

That wasn’t a cheap weekend for her.

At another expensive LL weekend, saw a number of riders DQ’d in show jumping when the finish flags weren’t marked correctly and one after the other didn’t pass through them, because of an error of the officials. One. After. The. Other. Everyone asking why and the judge refusing to answer because she was busy watching the next one fail. Finally someone stopped the parade and got the finish flags adjusted, no one else DQ’d. But the other DQ’s stood. To fix the unfair, outside-of-rules results? Written grievance, go through the whole process.

Holds on course aren’t timed properly. Unschooled volunteers make scoring errors or timing errors. Etc. & so on.

Oh but the smurfs aren’t allowed to be competitive, care about why they paid entry fees for a scored competition, or have voices.

A minor injury got a BNR DQ’d, one who competes several horses every single weekend of the season? Boo-hoo.

[OverandOnward]

@Groom&Taxi

I feel like we are getting to the point in “the aftermath” where there is plenty of agreement among those concerned that a problem (problems) exists and needs to be fixed but no consensus about the exact problem or how to fix it.

Is the problem tight nosebands or bleeding mouths? Is the problem general horse abuse by Marilyn Little? Is the problem the licensed officials passing off as ok something they should card? Is the problem black or burgundy towels and grooms getting to horses before vets or stewards after XC?

Some think the existing rules could/should work if used properly, some want a “no blood” rule in accordance with FEI dressage and jumpers, and there are some other ideas around requiring a vet/steward check before dismounting from xc. Some are making this a witch hunt about ML.

What problem are we trying to solve? What can the most people rally around?

I agree, this is what needs to be better defined. All of these are issues, but some should be the principal issue(s). Because yes, the message gets lost, otherwise.

Some are misunderstanding all the energy as focused on one individual. From my point of view, that’s not the issue - although for other people maybe it is.

Horse welfare is the only issue for me. The rule is not being enforced appropriately and seriously by the officials. To me, that’s the bottom line.

None of this controversy would be happening if the rules had been enforced starting years ago. As others have pointed out.

Why are these officials and BNR’s not saying a damn word about horse welfare? Why are they rattling on about everything but?

Because the defensive, horse-ignoring statements of the officials are opening up another can of worms that is much larger, messier, more “dangerous” and damaging than the discussion that is happening now.

Every statement from a BNR or eventing official needs to have the words “HORSE WELFARE” front & center, to have any credibility with me.