MB CIVIL SUIT UPDATE #10 K’s Request to Adjourn (delay) DENIED 11/01/22

[Angela_Freda]

I don’t think she was or is the sole owner of the horse, so it wasn’t that simple.

But yes, if you’re in fear, move yourself and your horses out is good advice. You know, for anyone.

[LexInVA]

@ohnoO

Well, could they just skip the middle man and go to the actual brick and mortar bank?

If they pay LK in cash or through wire transfers to her account from foreign entities, there’s not really anything to go to, without more legal weight. LK more or less said that her father gives her money from “The Bank”, but that could go several different ways.

[trubandloki]

Darn, the things I miss when I do not read all of the posts. Thank you for the great reply so I noticed the post @Angela_Freda.

What a wonderful idea, if you are scared just move your horses and go. If only Lauren Kanarek was held to that wonderful advice. I mean, she had people offering to help her, her father, Jonathan Kanarek had even found a great place for her to go, but no. That advice does not apply to her and she should be allowed to do whatever she wants all while everyone else is told to do what she should have done.

[Angela_Freda]

@FitzE

And they must have been lying that concern for the horses was why they came round the next day

Well, add there they must have been lying that they needed access to the barn, before the shooting incident, to care for the horses at all hours of the day, even when the barn was “closed”, because only they/RG could do the wraps on the cellulitis horse, etc.

But suddenly that wasn’t imperative and they could jyst walk away and let the staff at the barn do it…

It appears that it may have been imperative, but only until it wasn’t convenient and an opportunity to harass and push their scheme?
.

[ekat]

@FitzE

That makes zero sense whatsoever

I agree with your whole post.

I just want to add, it makes even less sense when you consider Jonathan Kanarek/IM had just negotiated a new barn 15 minutes away that Lauren Kanarek said no to. Perhaps that option could have been revisited even if LK wasn’t going to be able to avail herself of the training. (Or miss her scheduled training sessions due to spider bites and naps and what have you).

[eggbutt]

@LexInVA

@ohnoO

Well, could they just skip the middle man and go to the actual brick and mortar bank?

If they pay LK in cash or through wire transfers to her account from foreign entities, there’s not really anything to go to, without more legal weight. LK more or less said that her father gives her money from “The Bank”, but that could go several different ways.

They used to use Venmo quite a bit, and perhaps still do but their accounts are now private (never allow PayPal, Venmo, any cash app profile to be open!).

[eggbutt]

And if the Lundgrens(?) were so welcoming and eager for Lauren to stay, why didn’t RG simply stay at the farm rather than roaming the Newark area? Why didn’t they return there to recuperate rather than a hotel room? Staying at the farm would have allowed RG to scour the property for any evidence he and daddy missed on the 8th as well as take really good care of all the horses all by himself. Oh, but he had his own priorities, didn’t he?

[ekat]

@Fiesta01

Let’s suppose that MB completes all the steps of counseling by Dec and GS states that he should be released. Is there any way for MB’s attorneys to petition a higher court to ask that the 6-month hearing be moved up since holding MB any further would undeniably be punitive? ETA: and against state law?

Yes. They can petition for earlier hearings, just not more often than every 30 days. Of course, MB has to pay his attorneys to do so and hope that Judge T grants the petition. Both things would have been solved by Judge T setting the hearing at 3 months, per NJ rules.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Warmblood1

@erinmeri

it appears that MB was driven insane

Yup.

I believe LK et al are going to try to argue MB was “insane” prior to meeting LK. Depression and insanity are worlds apart. MB was a successful business man with a great deal of wealth and assets who had no criminal history or significant mental health events prior to meeting LK. He has a successful competition record at the highest levels and has a very good history with clients. It was proven MB was insane at the time of the shooting with the criminal trial. While the criminal trial’s verdict holds no bearing on the civil trial, I do think his insanity is significant when comparing MB prior to LK and after LK. It’s quite hard to argue LK did not drive MB insane since she was the only change in MB’s successful life prior to events. I think this all relates to LK’s responsibility to mitigate her circumstances. Fearful victims do not stay and drive their who they are fearful of to insanity. They leave.

Also far fetched is to say SGF should have in any way not entered into any sort of leasing agreement with MB because he had a history of depression. That’s like saying I can’t rent to you an apartment because you have been depressed at some point in your life.

Even if MBs lawyers can prove LK “drove him insane”, the civil lawsuit has to determine the “proximate” cause of her injurIes.

Insanity and delusions probably arise in a complicated interaction between genetics and environment. LK was one factor in that environment. The stress of LK being LK would have been very different if it hadn’t been for the interaction between MHG and LK. Anyway, the ultimate cause of his mental breakdown was surely an interaction between his genetic makeup, his childhood issues, his chronic mental issues, and the whole set of current circumstances.

The narrative being pushed here is is over simplified, blame it all on Lauren, narrative in which LK enters an idyllic, fully functional training business and “drives MB insane”, “causing” him to shoot her.

There are a number of hurdles in using this narrative to pin the liability for LKs injuries on LK herself.

1. What matters is the proximate cause of her being shot, not some deep, fundamental cause, even if that could be conclusively determined.
2. LK had been training with MB for over a year at that point, and had been invited back to live in the NJ farmhouse months prior
3. In hindsight, there are clear indications that MB was delusional and acting irrationally for at least some weeks before he shot her.

Re point 3, a reasonably sane man, if he wanted a boarder gone, would have simply given her 30 days notice and then started eviction proceedings if she didn’t comply. Instead, he continued to urge her to bring in additional horses, to have RG remodel the house, and then waged a harassment campaign to “scare her out”.

I also see problems with the argument that she should have avoided bring shot by moving out prior to the 7th. JK said that MB never asked her to leave. I think that may be true. From the trial we know that his lawyer, Tarshis, stepped in and demanded she vacate of Aug 5. But he also testified that MB, even at that point, did not want to evict her.

At some level, whether she was told to vacate prior to the 5th doesn’t even matter, because MB is not justified in shooting someone who overstays a demand to vacate.

So I don’t see how any of LKs actions are going to successfully be used in the lawsuit to shield MB from liability.

This does not mean that I endorse nasty and creepy posts on SM, setting up secret recording devices, or harassing your landlord by calling the building department by reporting violations of the building code.

[MorganSercu]

Being gracious enough not to want an eviction to show up on someone’s credit rating =/= “not wanting” someone to GET OUT. LEAVE. NOW. And take your horses and vicious dog (history of biting) with you. Don’t leave anything behind, GET GONE.

[BigMama1]

@CurrentlyHorseless

LK had been training with MB for over a year at that point, and had been invited back to live in the NJ farmhouse months prior

That’s LK’s version of the story, but everyone else’s version says she INSISTED on living in the farmhouse and threw a mighty tantrum when she was told there were no accommodations for her due to the flooding and repair issues.

[eggbutt]

@Ambitious_Kate

can you elaborate on who spoke up at the trial about LK harrassment?

No victims of prior harassment were called to testify (although on the original witness list) because Taylor would not allow anything admitted that didn’t pertain to the immediate situation. Amazing IMO.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@FitzE

Here is one thing I really cannot square: LK claims she feared harm to her horses (and I think she already claimed over feeding and some other issues). She used this ‘fear’ as part of her justification for not leaving the farmhouse until she could find the absolute mostest perfect new place for the horses.

Then, the day after the shooting, JK and RG come to the farm loaded for bear and do…whatever…and then abandon those horses completely to the care of the same people they not only feared would harm the horses but also the same people they would then sue (RC) or state publicly they wished were in prison (MHG), both of whom they claim were part of the recorded murder plot, or they claimed publicly were incompetent drunks (JH).

That makes zero sense whatsoever. They must have been lying about having any fear for their horses. And they must have been lying that concern for the horses was why they came round the next day. And no one need bother with some ‘LK was flatlining and they feared for her life so they just gave up on the horse situation and hoped for the best’ excuse/justification. That is part of how you honour and care for that person especially while other family is bedside and you don’t have a job or children or any other pressing draws on your time.

When a loved one has animals they care about more than anything else in the world, you take care of them without fail or delay, even while the person is actually dying. Ask a whole bunch of us how we know.

This is ridiculous.

In the midst of a horribly tense situation, LK heard in her recordings MHG say “I’m going to effing kill her”. A sane person doesn’t take that literally — it’s an expression of extreme animosity and frustration. While you don’t think MHG is literally going to kill you, I can perfectly well understand LK then fearing that MHG might express her toxic animosity through the horses.

Immediately after the shooting, it’s not clear who is taking care of LKs horses, so JK and RG go to the farm to see what the situation is. The parties mutually agree that the horses will be cared for normally.

It’s not surprising in the least that you can reinterpret the straightforward and sensible actions of JK and RG in the most insidious manner possible.

Ridiculous.

[Bogey2]

No reply is the best reply!! (carl Hester on social media nonsense)

[MHM]

@iridedressage

I put my shopping list in the “Notes” app on my phone. It’s very handy. Although I have never had exploding bullets or illegal cameras on my list!!

Same.

If the authorities looked at it, they would probably wonder why I keep buying so many carrots all the time.

[MHM]

@eggbutt

I suspect this is a contingency case for him and I now wonder if Mom & Dad either can’t afford their own attorney or can’t find one to represent them.

If so, that would make me wonder under what circumstances a lawyer can bail on a case that he accepted on contingency. Would he then be out of pocket for whatever he has already sunk into it?

[eggbutt]

I believe we will learn, via evidence, there was an actual plan to destroy Michael Barisone that began as early as April 2019. Lauren was not going to be denied and daddy supported and helped plan each and every move. I believe he intervened with the MCPO just as I believe he intervened with Taylor and Schellhorn and has attempted to intervene with Sceusi. Who does that?

BTW, I know of several instances in NC where he inserted his bully self making demands on his daughter’s behalf. Not a good look for the father of an adult unemployed daughter. Someday he won’t be around and she will have to stand on her own. Perhaps she will learn with the civil suits that daddy isn’t superman and can’t solve the issues they created.

[BigMama1]

@CurrentlyHorseless

also see problems with the argument that she should have avoided bring shot by moving out prior to the 7th. JK said that MB never asked her to leave. I think that may be true. From the trial we know that his lawyer, Tarshis, stepped in and demanded she vacate of Aug 5. But he also testified that MB, even at that point, did not want to evict her.

And again we know this is BS. You know it is false. You have been told hundreds of times it is false. Testimony shows it is false and yet you keep repeating it!

She had been asked to leave multiple times. Daddio and MB were working together and found somewhere appropriate for her to move with her horses. SHE KNEW SHE WAS NO LONGER WELCOME THERE AND HAD BEEN ASKED TO LEAVE.

What hadn’t happened is she hadn’t been formally evicted. Yet. Honest to God what kind of person needs it to go that far when they are clearly not wanted on the premises? We know what kind of person .

And let’s note how LK reacted when the first step in formal eviction - the letter from the lawyer - was delivered to her. Suddenly she has massive concerns about child welfare and CPS comes knocking at the door. No wonder MB was hesitant to start formal eviction proceedings, knowing she would up the ante in retaliation, as had been her pattern of behaviour. In no way does that mean he didn’t want her to leave though.

LK stated she was in fear for her safety at HH. She stated she was in fear for her horses’ safety at HH. She received numerous offers of trailering and stabling elsewhere. JK and MB arranged a perfectly appropriate place for her to go. And yet she stayed. But you want to blame MB for not formally evicting her sooner, rather than blaming LK for not leaving a dangerous situation which she created? Okaaaaaaaay…

I highly doubt a jury will see it the way you do.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@BigMama1

@CurrentlyHorseless

LK had been training with MB for over a year at that point, and had been invited back to live in the NJ farmhouse months prior

That’s LK’s version of the story, but everyone else’s version says she INSISTED on living in the farmhouse and threw a mighty tantrum when she was told there were no accommodations for her due to the flooding and repair issues.

OK, “invite” was not the correct word.

As I remember what LK said, at first the farmhouse was not offered, perhaps due to the flooding, and she responded that she would not return to NJ for training unless she did have use of the farmhouse. Having stated her terms, MB then said she could stay in the farmhouse.

What would a “mighty tantrum” accomplish? Why would MB respond positively to a “mighty tantrum”?

Far more believable to me is LKs explanation that she merely stated the apt was necessary for her to return.

It’s so hard for people to acknowledge that MB agreed to her living there. Instead, you have to reach for LK “threw a mighty tantrum” or “JK threatened MB to force him to allow LK to live there”.

[lazaret]

Prior bad acts are not admissible in a criminal proceeding because they are unfairly prejudicial.

However, in a civil proceeding, plaintiff and defendant are equally on trial, so to speak. If it can be substantiated with admissible evidence and it is relevant to the matter discussed in the civil proceeding, that is fair game.

Also, since MHG is not named in the lawsuit, all this posturing about everything being MHG’s fault clearly isn’t agreed by the plaintiff since if that were the case, she would be suing her for culpability.