MB Civil Trial: JK/KK Contempt of Court?

[ekat]

@DownYonder

My recollection from the testimony was that the sweeper found no hidden recording devices.

I do remember LK boasting that they had placed the devices “where no one would ever find them,” which makes me wonder how thorough a job the sweeper did, and what technology he employed to try to locate said devices

Would a bug sweeper even pick up a little pocket voice recorder like Lauren testified she bought off Amazon? Does it look for something else?

[CindyB59]

Or, account was created and logon info was shared with others

[Ambitious_Kate]

The problem is that IP addresses aren’t static, so one wonders how anyone can determine from which computer a post originates once the account is established. It could be from the original computer/user each time they post, but IP addresses will show as different each time on the same computer, if they use a VPN, so how do you really know. Even without a VPN, they change depending on where they route through, so it’s no clear where a post really originates. Techies can correct me if I’m wrong.

[eggbutt]

Hmmm…continued nesting of posts. Why go against what the moderator very politely requested?

[trubandloki]

Legal minds - now that the defense has responded does nothing happen until the judge decides what happens next? One of the lawyers already explained that Bruce only gets one response, so now I am just wondering what is next… will anything be filed that we will be able to see?

[Ambitious_Kate]

@CurrentlyHorseless

However, I think Nagel’s primary justification for requesting the remote deposition is the two genetic, universal considerations that have nothing to do with LK specifically— zoom is cheaper, more efficient and minimizes Covid risk.

But it doesn’t matter what you think. What matters is if Nagel followed procedure making his request, and he didn’t. Doesn’t matter if it makes sense to you. Also, it doesn’t follow that any of its even true. It’s not less expensive, and Covid is moot.

[ekat]

@trubandloki

I believe Bruce needs to follow the rules and those rules appear to require him to have proof of what he says if what he says is an exception, even more so an exception that the plaintiff is asking for in the personal injury case they filed, ya know, where they are being asked to go for their deposition…again…in the case they filed.

Lauren Kanarek told the defense to go to her social media, she posted that photo on her social media. If she did not want people seeing that photo of her then I would assume she would not put it on her social media.

The lawyers here have explained this to you several times now.

You are so correct. There are rules. Lots of them. Many exist so the judge and opposing counsel has to guess or “think” what someone’s primary justification is. Others exist so people can’t just throw an idea out there and hope it sticks without evidence.

Level playing field and all - especially when the plaintiff picks the field (venue).

[hut-ho78]

@trubandloki

@CurrentlyHorseless

Was it necessary for Nagel to write that due to LK receiving two gunshot wounds to her lungs courtesy of the defendant and that there is some probability or presumption that she may be more at risk if infected with COVID than the general population of 40 year olds of he couldn’t back it up with expert testimony? No, probably not. Even if true, I doubt the scientific evidence to establish that it’s true exists, so attaching the proof is not feasible.

But if you’re representing the plaintiff in a person injury case, and the gunshot wounds to the lungs are the primary injury, do you omit mentioning it just because you can’t prove it?

I see the rationale for Deininger’s photos of LK partying in NYC and sitting on a horse— more than I understood the rationale for the alone horse. But you don’t think the specific choice of the middle finger shot was to get in an extra dig while establishing she’s living life normally?

I think I understand what you and the other lawyers have been saying. However, I think Nagel’s primary justification for requesting the remote deposition is the two genetic, universal considerations that have nothing to do with LK specifically— zoom is cheaper, more efficient and minimizes Covid risk.

I believe Bruce needs to follow the rules and those rules appear to require him to have proof of what he says if what he says is an exception, even more so an exception that the plaintiff is asking for in the personal injury case they filed, ya know, where they are being asked to go for their deposition…again…in the case they filed.

Lauren Kanarek told the defense to go to her social media, she posted that photo on her social media. If she did not want people seeing that photo of her then I would assume she would not put it on her social media.

The lawyers here have explained this to you several times now.

I think you need to reread CH’s post. She was only pointing out both lawyers used the postings to do a little positioning. She wasn’t arguing with anyone just adding a detail that had been omitted.

[hut-ho78]

@ekat

@DownYonder

My recollection from the testimony was that the sweeper found no hidden recording devices.

I do remember LK boasting that they had placed the devices “where no one would ever find them,” which makes me wonder how thorough a job the sweeper did, and what technology he employed to try to locate said devices

Would a bug sweeper even pick up a little pocket voice recorder like Lauren testified she bought off Amazon? Does it look for something else?

Yes.

[ekat]

@hut-ho78

Yes

Good to know. I have no clue how bug sweepers work. I thought they looked for signals from bugs or something. And in this day and age, I guess I assumed they would look for Wi-Fi interference.

I don’t know how they would pick up a little recorder unless they happened to catch it in the act of recording and heard the little motor? Does that work?

[LilRanger]

@trubandloki

Legal minds - now that the defense has responded does nothing happen until the judge decides what happens next? One of the lawyers already explained that Bruce only gets one response, so now I am just wondering what is next… will anything be filed that we will be able to see?

It appears the judge will decide based on the motions and briefs submitted in support of those motions, there won’t be oral argument. That hurts LK because she can’t bring any more evidence to support her position.

[DownYonder]

@ekat

Would a bug sweeper even pick up a little pocket voice recorder like Lauren testified she bought off Amazon? Does it look for something else?

To be honest, I don’t know what technology is used. I know that sweepers look in the obvious places - in lamps, ceiling fixtures, on bookshelves, in plants, etc. But those are physical searches. There may be (no doubt are) technology devices that search for electronic pulses, etc., that may be emitted from hidden devices.

Video recorders are much easier to find than audio recorders because they (video recorders) must obviously have line of sight, so they tend to be more visible. But audio recorders don’t require line of sight and they can get tucked away in all kinds of odd places.

I was watching something on Netflix the other night - a Longmire episode, I think - and the sheriff found a video recorder in the mouth of a deerhead mounted behind the counter in a gunshop. So that is one instance where a video camera was in a bit of an odd place. But I remember seeing on another program not too long ago where an audio recorder was found mounted beneath the edge of a bathroom cabinet - where it had been for years without ever being detected.

Edited to add - let’s don’t forget that RG was recording conversations from his phone in his pants pocket.

[eggbutt]

If I recall correctly it was stated RG installed several devices under the guise of checking smoke detectors or some such thing in the ceilings. There was also discussion of a device being at “the rock” near the small mobile home one of the workers lived in. I recall him testifying he would go to the Rock at night to smoke and he and the Hay Man would chat. The rock is also where he said he was when he saw the LK Ninja in the woods late at night.

[trubandloki]

@hut-ho78

I think you need to reread CH’s post. She was only pointing out both lawyers used the postings to do a little positioning. She wasn’t arguing with anyone just adding a detail that had been omitted.

I do not feel as lucky as you with your mind reading skills, I am not capable of guessing that is what CH was trying to say.
I read their post, with my reading glasses on more than once and I can not make it what you are saying it is so if that is what CH intended…

[ekat]

@eggbutt

If I recall correctly it was stated RG installed several devices under the guise of checking smoke detectors or some such thing in the ceilings. There was also discussion of a device being at “the rock” near the small mobile home one of the workers lived in. I recall him testifying he would go to the Rock at night to smoke and he and the Hay Man would chat. The rock is also where he said he was when he saw the LK Ninja in the woods late at night.

I definitely remember Mr Bilinkas asking RG about the one by the rock and one by a trash can or dumpster.

[DownYonder]

@Ambitious_Kate

The problem is that IP addresses aren’t static, so one wonders how anyone can determine from which computer a post originates once the account is established. It could be from the original computer/user each time they post, but IP addresses will show as different each time on the same computer, if they use a VPN, so how do you really know. Even without a VPN, they change depending on where they route through, so it’s no clear where a post really originates. Techies can correct me if I’m wrong.

Good points. I’d love to hear more about it if there are any techies following this thread.

[LilRanger]

@CurrentlyHorseless

But if you’re representing the plaintiff in a person injury case, and the gunshot wounds to the lungs are the primary injury, do you omit mentioning it just because you can’t prove it?

I do not make an unsupportable argument, that’s for darn sure. If I have evidence that helps me color the other party while still supporting my position, I might use that, but I have generally just stuck to the argument without doing any mud-slinging.

But unsupported arguments that give the other side an opening to play tit-for-tat when my client is a prolific sm user? That’s just poor judgement by the lawyer.

[trubandloki]

@LilRanger

But unsupported arguments that give the other side an opening to play tit-for-tat when my client is a prolific sm user? That’s just poor judgement by the lawyer.

It does make me wonder how well this lawyer understands their client.

[erinmeri]

I had no idea that for $50, you could get a tiny, easy to mount and hide, voice-activated recorder such as this on Amazon:

Amazon.com: 64GB Digital Voice Recorder, Voice Activated Recorder with 750 Hours...

I have no idea why you would want such a thing, except to spy (as several reviews point out).

I also have no idea if a bug sweeper would find one of these, as there is no radio signal… but I have no knowledge of these things.

Edited: BUG sweeper. Not big sweeper.

[Sdel]

@trubandloki

Legal minds - now that the defense has responded does nothing happen until the judge decides what happens next? One of the lawyers already explained that Bruce only gets one response, so now I am just wondering what is next… will anything be filed that we will be able to see?

In theory, Nagel might get a response to MB’s filing since the original was done by SGF and Deininger is just now filing in support of SGF’s motion.