MB Civil Trial: JK/KK Contempt of Court?

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Einhorn

Nagel might be waiting till after the Krol hearing to file a subpoena. Or maybe it’s already been done? We wouldn’t know if MB is complying.

Thank you for providing that information. I just learned something!

Actually, I was thinking about the SGF attorneys having to wait to subpoena MB. SGF is the party that’s been pushing for the civil case to get a move on — probably because they think they have a chance of a summary judgement.

[Knights_Mom]

@lazaret

@CurrentlyHorseless

I think so, but don’t remember.

I’ll refresh your memory, since you are using this as evidence to bolster an argument:

Party A sues Party B for intentionally inflicting an STD on her. In pursuit of that lawsuit, party B is required to reveal and file claims with all his insurance policies, including his homeowners and vehicle policies.

As part of that, party A alleged that she contracted the STD in party Bs vehicle. As part of the terms of the insurance agreements, party A and party B entered arbitration.

In arbitration, the arbitrator determined a judgement of $5.2m and apportioned that judgement to the vehicle carrier.

At that time, GEICO filed suit to appeal the arbitrator’s decision, and the judgement was affirmed due to the rules of arbitration and NOT ON THE MERITS OF LIABILITY OR COVERAGE.

That decision is currently under appeal.

In my state you can’t appeal an arbitrators decision ever.

[trubandloki]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Sorry, @trubandloki, I didn’t see your post until I saw the mods response to it, as I have you on ignore.

Thank you for letting me know you have me on ignore. I feel like I must be doing something right then.

@McGurk

Right. But that opens a big 'ol door to: what created the unsafe environment? A safe with guns in it? Or a toxic tenant who refused to leave, made malicious complaints to the building inspector, fire marshall, SS and through them CPS, installed illegal recording devices, harassed owners and customers and inspired the hiring of private security? Hmmmmmm. Which would I be more afraid of?

Oh my gosh, You put it perfectly. The real risk was not the guns in the safe or Michael. The real risk was 100% Lauren Kanarek.

[KurPlexed]

@DownYonder

How is it that an attorney can be good enough to build a nice-sized firm and win all kinds of accolades, but still draft such an abysmally bad document as what he filed the other day? I honestly can’t help but wonder if he was under undue pressure of some sort, or perhaps even under the influence of “something.”

I’m really far behind but can it be similar to the “best of magazines”? You pay $xxx and you are listed in the magazine as Best Pizza Restaurant, Best Cosmetic Surgeon, Best Ice Cream Shop. Lol. That’s all I can come up with.

Eta: I see this is the consensus.
Back to reading

[ekat]

In case anyone was wondering, Mr Deininger is not just riding along on Mr Silver’s deposition for Lauren. Following the rules of civil procedure, he gave his own notice of deposition to the plaintiff on August 3, 2022, and requested some documents from her.

While they are supporting each other on the in-person aspect, these are two separate deposition requests.

[trubandloki]

@MorganSercu

Don’t forget that a shovel in your vehicle means you are planning to kill someone AND bury that person.

I drive a small car. Do those little winter emergency folding shovels mean this too?

[IdahoRider]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Huh? Before the trial, obviously.

In response to the charges, Barisone pled both NGRI and Not Guilty by Reason of Self Defense

I think you are confusing a defendant submitting a plea (“I plead not guilty”) before the trial and a plea offer/arrangement/deal made between a pleading (“I plead not guilty”) and the end of trial where a jury starts to deliberate. It is my understanding that a plea deal can be offered and accepted up until the jury gets the case.
Sheilah

[MorganSercu]

Sure! Particularly if they are serrated. Clearly for dismemberment.

[eggbutt]

Actually, snow chains might also be considered deadly weapons!

I heard on the news tonight NC is voting on a bill to register all shovels and require permits and training before purchase after a 60 day waiting period. Post hole diggers require a special license. We already have a law that shovels must be kept under lock and key (shovels safes) when idle for 12 minutes. All shovels with broken handles must be relinquished to local authorities (shovel police) immediately for forensic testing. Here in NC we take our shovel safety seriously.

[trubandloki]

Wow @ekat, that is interesting. Deininger is asking for Lauren Kanarek’s psychiatric records too.

[Joanne]

Has there been any response to the Deininger filing from LK’s lawyer?

[2tempe]

@IdahoRider

It is my understanding that a plea deal can be offered and accepted up until the jury gets the case.
Sheilah

I was a jury member on a manslaughter trial here in Florida some years ago. We heard all the testimony, and after 2+ days were taking our lunch break before starting deliberation. Came back and the defendant had accepted a plea deal while we were at lunch.

[KurPlexed]

@lazaret

Man, nobody has made this much of a mockery of the legal process since I led mock trial for a bunch of high school juniors a few years back

Except Nagel

[ekat]

@trubandloki

Wow @ekat, that is interesting. Deininger is asking for Lauren Kanarek’s psychiatric records too.

Yes, prior and post August 7, 2019.

You have to have medical evidence, records, possibly experts, to prove an infliction of emotional distress claim.

[cutter99]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@eggbutt

Exactly! Not looking too positive for the Plaintiff, is it?

By the way, if there was anything in Michael Barisone’s background to show him to be a bad apple, it would have been presented front and center of the criminal trial. Of course, LK and RG’s extensive histories were prevented from the criminal trial…that won’t be the case for the civil trial. We’ve talked about this before. It will be fascinating to watch. I think we will all finally realize and agree on who the true victims of this tragedy are!!

I thought it was the opposite. As the defendant, past bad conduct is excluded as prejudicial, while more latitude is allowed in using examples of the conduct of LK and RG to explain his frame of mind.

It’s difficult for me to imagine there’s any more dirty laundry on LK that you personally have not aired.

Keep dreaming about there not bring more dirty laundry of LK’s to be aired.

Remember, Michael and MHG hired a private investigator, who delivered a HUGE report that has never been made public. And it was testified to in court that information in that report scared Michael. Plus, it made him more determined that he did not want them there because of what that report revealed.

I could venture many a guess there is much, much more information to come out about LK, and I will bet dollars to donuts it will not be flattering.

Maybe, just maybe, LK should have thought about the consequences of her actions and what would be learned publicly about her when she decided to “FINISH THE BASTARD”!

Maybe, just maybe!

[Warmblood1]

@Sdel

@Warmblood1

ETA: interesting that she says she plans to ask these firms for representation and then in the next few sentences, says they will email her her every answer as if already hired.

Since she said the lawyer was on speed dial and would answer right away…I translated that to mean “family”. The law firm she is talking about is most likely the employer of one of her “numerous” lawyer family members.

I think she intended on hiring a lawyer from a top global firm but ended up with Nagel. I think a lawyer of that caliber and track record would be hesitant to take on this case and deal with this type of client. If she did indeed have a family member that were in a top global firm, why wouldn’t they represent her? I think she is just blowing smoke, as usual.

[Sdel]

@Warmblood1

If she did indeed have a family member that were in a top global firm, why wouldn’t they represent her?

[KurPlexed]

@lazaret

Not really. The judge doesn’t care if your filings are bad quality. It just makes it easier for your opposing counsel.

And an amusing conversation for the judge at his next golf game.

[ekat]

@skydy

I’m surprised that Mr. Nagel is bringing up LK’s medical condition so early in the proceedings.

In the criminal trial, it seems as though her addiction issues were stipulated, since it was an issue as to her credibility as a witness and to MB’s state of mind, but it was not explored.

In this Civil lawsuit, will the suboxone used to treat her addiction become more of an issue? It does have side effects, tiredness/sleepiness being one of them. If Mr. Nagel claims that those side effects are a result of the shooting, I think he will be treading on thin ice.

I doubt that whomever is prescribing the suboxone is thrilled with the possibility of producing LK’s medical records and/or having to testify in court. Whatever GP or physician she sees now (if indeed she does see one) for non addiction issues will probably not be happy about being caught up in this mess either. They will be the ones having to produce records or testify to her present condition. The N.J. physicians that treated her in hospital can only testify to her condition 3 (?) years ago, unless she’s traveled to N.J. for regular treatment.

If she is to prove permanent injury, which I am assuming is part of her case, all of the addiction matters will come out in court, won’t they?

You make some good points.

I’m not surprised by Nagel bringing it up early. He’s going to try to hammer her medical condition any chance he can, for the purposes of Lauren’s suit.

I’m going to hazard a guess that it’s her infliction of emotional distress claim, where her addiction issues might have light shone upon them, as it goes to state of her mind, pre- and post-shooting, as do any other mental health statements pre and post August 7, 2019.

[trubandloki]

@Warmblood1

If she did indeed have a family member that were in a top global firm, why wouldn’t they represent her? I think she is just blowing smoke, as usual.

I thought her brother-in-law did work for a well known law firm. Wasn’t it something like that.

It does make one wonder how they picked THIS lawyer for their civil case. Was Bruce recommended by her top 10 global blue chip law firm? Is he someone that one of her lawyer relatives recommended? Or was Bruce the guy they could get to take their case.

Think about it. The person Lauren Kanarek has been getting legal advice from, her father, Jonathan Kanarek is someone who has pending contempt charges because he has not bothered to respond to a subpoena.