MB Civil Trial: JK/KK Contempt of Court?

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

I think that egg is fed up about being taken for granite.

[eggbutt]

And she’s back to being in ICU for 3 weeks. She was only in the hospital a total of 3 weeks. Facts matter.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@LilRanger

@FitzE

I cannot believe that, not only did heads NOT roll at Nagel’s firm after that first piece of toilet paper was filed, no one even corrected the mistakes and/or bothered to do a better job this time.

I have a feeling this was drafted by Nagel himself and he was n a hurry to get golfing. He bashed it out on the computer then hit send to get it in ASAP.

It’s written terribly, for all the reasons you said, and it gives me anxiety because I’ve had to litigate against attorneys like this and it’s just awful. They are rarely successful except in intimidating people. I even had to report one to the bar for trying to intimidate a witness; we were in the hall waiting for our case to start, and the witness was sitting right next to me! The attorney walked up to stand over him and asked him if he was going to tell the same lie from the deposition or a different one?

In my experience, attorneys like this get shut down by the judge and juries despise them. This guy wins settlements with big corp and insurance companies, because they can’t be bothered so his pleadings can suck and no one cares.

Thank you for this post. IANAL, but know plenty of them… and this is the impression I have had of Nagel all along. It helps to see actual lawyers with a lot of professional experience speak to this issue though, and just state clearly that he is a personal injury attorney who specializes in honing in on cases, and then behaving aggressively so he can get settlements for clients.

Inigo-Montoya noted that Nagel was one of the top lawyers in NJ in terms of the dollar value of awards he’s achieved for clients. That’s great for those clients… but it won’t help the Kanareks in this situation if the civil suit actually ends up going to trial. LK needs an attorney who can actually handle a trial situation. It does not seem like that is Nagel’s specialty.

[Angela_Freda]

Thanks, I tried but couldn’t find it

[trubandloki]

@eggbutt

And she’s back to being in ICU for 3 weeks. She was only in the hospital a total of 3 weeks. Facts matter.

I thought it was 19 days, which is not even three weeks total in the hospital. So that would make the time in the ICU even less since the total is not even the number they are using.

[Angela_Freda]

I watch Sunday Morning on CBS.
Sunday morning is my “lazy day”.
I’m not sure if there’s a Sat show.

[MHM]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@eggbutt

I found it interesting that neither the CBS segments indicate Michael was almost beat to death and that’s why he has no memory, not because he was bullied on SM!

I’m very frustrated by that. I hope the 48 hours episode is actually clear on that point.

Maybe they will be. I’m guessing that for these trailers, they are trying to include the most inflammatory version in order to attract viewers. Hopefully they will back it up with some more factual information in the actual episode. I guess we’ll know soon.

[Angela_Freda]

But they have the pics of him, shocking one I’ve never seen, so I assume that will be explained

[trubandloki]

That is a good point @MHM . I mean, they have not even said what the verdict is yet in any of the trailers (though it is in the written piece).

[DownYonder]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

It helps to see actual lawyers with a lot of professional experience speak to this issue though, and just state clearly that he is a personal injury attorney who specializes in honing in on cases, and then behaving aggressively so he can get settlements for clients.

Inigo-Montoya noted that Nagel was one of the top lawyers in NJ in terms of the dollar value of awards he’s achieved for clients. That’s great for those clients… but it won’t help the Kanareks in this situation if the civil suit actually ends up going to trial. LK needs an attorney who can actually handle a trial situation. It does not seem like that is Nagel’s specialty.

Nagel is like a foxhound that drives the fox into its den - but then has to depend on the terrier to drag it out.

[MHM]

@trubandloki

That is a good point @MHM . I mean, they have not even said what the verdict is yet in any of the trailers (though it is in the written piece).

Yes. It’s probably like putting together a trailer for a movie. They want to get people to watch without giving away the whole thing.

[Sdel]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Whoa. Why in the world would RG have continued to beat his head in like that, while he had MB on the ground with one of his arms twisted behind his back, and MBs elbow dislocated?

It also seems to be fairly extensive for allowed timeframe…

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@CanteringCarrot

@CurrentlyHorseless

If I were a Barisone supporter who thought the evidence he shot her was weak, I’d be filled with rage at Bilinkas for advising him to plead NGRI. If he’d pled straight NG, he’d be home in Florida right now.

I think the point is flying over your head. Which is fine, because I feel as though you’re just being obtuse at times. I’m not a full fledged Barisone supporter so I can’t speak for that population. Nor do I have the time and/or energy to be “filled with rage” #dramatic

It’s obvious why he pled NGRI. Now, this is really going to blow your mind here, so hold on…but it’s entirely possible for some of the evidence to be a bit weak and for a NGRI plea to make sense and be the best option, not solely due to “weak evidence.” If you want to look at it “simply” or in black and white, then whatever, and I understand that no one here is capable of opening your mind.

Anyway, that’s enough rehashing and arguing about what has already happened and is a done deal.

At his initial arraignment, he pled straight Not Guilty.

As the trial approached, and discovery revealed all the evidence, he changed his plea to NGRI.

Bolding mine. it’s obvious to me why he pled NGRI. If he had pled straight NG, Bilinkas knew there was sufficiently strong evidence that it was very likely he were would be found Guilty and sentenced to decades in prison.

Knowing this, Bilinkas had him plead NGRI because with that plea, even after the jury determined the prosecutor had enough evidence to establish he shot her, by establishing insanity, he was acquitted of an act that otherwise have been a criminal act.

The italicized segment is what Nagel is referring to when he says Barisone was found guilty of attempted murder, but was not held criminally responsible because of the insanity finding.

If the evidence is “pretty weak”, you plead straight Not Guilty. You only plead NGRI if you have a big risk of conviction on a Not Guilty plea. It is exactly that simple.

You’re right that there is no legitimate reason for outrage at Bilinkas. He correctly advised his client to plead NGRI instead of NG because the prosecutor was going to establish that he shot her in either case, because the evidence was not weak, and by doing so got his client committed to a psychiatric hospital for an indefinite time instead of to a state prison for a definite term.

However, if you think the evidence against Barisone was “weak”, Bilinkas advising MB to change his plea from NG to NGRI is what has him involuntarily committed instead of walking free right now.

[SpicyPRE]

WOW Its truly fascinating to me that the K’s dont understand how this reflects on them. Just WOW

ETA they may also get an up close and personal experience with LK when she starts ranting in the comment section.

[MHM]

@Angela_Freda

I watch Sunday Morning on CBS.
Sunday morning is my “lazy day”.
I’m not sure if there’s a Sat show.

According to the guide on my TV channel, apparently there is, from 7 to 9 AM on Saturdays. It does not list anything in the episode description about this case, but I’m guessing they don’t include mentions of the small snippets.

But if anyone wants to see Alan Alda, he is scheduled to be on the show tomorrow.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

But he doesn’t have to prove he didn’t shoot her, correct? The burden is on the prosecutor to prove he shot her.

If I were a Barisone supporter who thought the evidence he shot her was weak, I’d be filled with rage at Bilinkas for advising him to plead NGRI. If he’d pled straight NG, he’d be home in Florida right now.

Can’t prove a negative. And I’ve already explained the rest as many others have as well. The only difficulty here is your refusal to listen.

Can’t prove a negative? The defendant doesn’t have to! Do you remember “innocent until proven guilty”? The court starts with the negative, the presumption of innocence, and it is the burden of the prosecutor to establish all the elements of his case. Which he did. If MB had plead straight Not Guilty, the jury would have found him Guilty.

However, having plead NGRI, the jury had to consider whether he was insane at the time if the shooting, in order to choose between Guilty and NGRI.

[yaya]

And considering that the 48 Hours piece may be viewed by potential jurors for the civil case, it’ll be interesting to see which spin they put on it.

[ohnoO]

(I am not defending LK here, I’m defending 48 Hours.)

The hostess/investigator (on TV this morning in the red dress) said that when she met LK that LK had just started riding again. Who knows how long ago that was.

[trubandloki]

@ohnoO

The hostess/investigator (on TV this morning in the red dress) said that when she met LK that LK had just started riding again. Who knows how long ago that was.

We do know. Well, unless LK was lying when she posted on social media about having her first interview with 48 hours. The photo has been posted here I believe in this very thread.

[Mersidoats]

Her 48hours interview was 6/21/2022, according to that photo. Previous posts indicate that she was riding her horses in December of 2019. Again - why lie about something that is so easy to disprove? I just don’t get it. And I’m not going to stop pushing back against the lying because I can’t stand liars. I just can’t.