MB Civil Trial: JK/KK Contempt of Court?

[Joanne]

Is there a picture for Exhibit A? I can see Exhibit B but nothing for A. B is the one with the horse, right?

[ekat]

@eggbutt

She’ll never produce ALL the records asked for. She’ll use the excuse they were deleted, ruined, lost, etc. So what happens when she can’t/won’t produce all the documentation?

@lazaret gave a really good outline upthread. The only thing I would add is lack of medical documentation would sink her emotional distress claims.

@lazaret

If the court finds that the documents do exist then there’s a couple possibilities:

1. The subpoena’d party is known to be in possession of them and is refusing to provide them, in which case, that party can be held in contempt of court to include fines and/or jail until the documents are produced;
2. If the above is the case and that is not sufficient motivation for the party to provide them, that party can be charged with obstruction of justice. This doesn’t happen very often because,
3. If there are copies of the documents, or other people who have seen them, those other parties can be explored for production of copies or testimony as to the contents and existence of the aforementioned items. Remember this is discovery so part of the goal is finding out what is IN those documents; they may have other avenues or even already know what is contained in them but want to know what someone else is holding related to them.

It’s relatively rare especially in the electronic age that the only, singular, sole copy of something is held by one particular person and cannot be obtained any other way, you might just have to get creative.

All this relies on a finding after hearing that you DO have the documents and are willfully obstructing the process by refusing to provide them. If the court believes you don’t have them, then none of this happens.

ETA: it’s not quite as simple as “you lose” however, if the plaintiff willfully obstructs the progress of the lawsuit by steadfastly refusing to answer subpoenas or participate in the process, it is possible that a judge can grant a dismissal with prejudice which prevents you from bringing suit again. More likely would be dismissal without prejudice which basically means “come back when you’re willing to play in the sandbox you yourself brought”

[yaya]

Exhibit A is the horse pic, Exhibit B is a copy of the deposition notice

[Angela_Freda]

@Sdel

It seems to me that the 48 hours interview was also a questionable Covid interaction….and that happened within the last few months…

It did?
I swear, either my mind is a steel sieve or I’m losing it.

[Sdel]

@Angela_Freda

@Sdel

It seems to me that the 48 hours interview was also a questionable Covid interaction….and that happened within the last few months…

It did?
I swear, either my mind is a steel sieve or I’m losing it.

We discussed an Instagram where she was saying she’d just finished her interview…. And numerous YT comments about it since the trial…

[hut-ho78]

RG and LE are heroes. Everyone lived.

MB may be in evaluation and some kind of treatment. If he has been diagnosed already, they may be trying to stabilize his condition with medication and if stabilized, he may be released. Maybe he is undergoing more medical tests.

Maybe the hospital is so short staffed they are still working on the evaluation.

It’s really important to get this right for everyone.

The filings sound pretty standard. I can see why LK may want to be deposed without having to incur travel and lodging expenses. I can see why they would all want her there for the depositions. It seems like someone with legal knowledge commented that she probably will have to go to NJ because that is what the law states. It doesn’t sound like she is trying to get out of being deposed.

Not sure why they are pulling in JK and KK and the time frame. It will be interesting to see how that goes, if their attorneys have filed in response to narrow the request or dismiss the request.

It’s going to be ugly. Maybe not so much for LK and family as it’s already been so ugly for them. It will be interesting to see what her attorney has requested in background information.

[Warmblood1]

@StB.YM

There’s another filing submitted by Deininger. I haven’t looked through it yet.

CivilCaseJacket (6).pdf (2.5 MB)

I think you’ll enjoy it. The pictures they include in these really are a nice touch.

ETA: Looks like the pic is from a recent Instagram posting. So I guess it’s safe to say MB’s team has access to her private Insta account?

[lazaret]

@hut-ho78

It doesn’t sound like she is trying to get out of being deposed.

She doesn’t have an avenue to do this, as I’m sure her attorneys advised.

[quote] Not sure why they are pulling in JK and KK and the time frame. It will be interesting to see how that goes, if their attorneys have filed in response to narrow the request or dismiss the request.

It’s going to be ugly. Maybe not so much for LK and family as it’s already been so ugly for them.[/quote]

You have got to be joking.

Why are they pulling in the people who were involved in this both before and immediately after the shooting? Who have claimed to have documents material to the case?

You really don’t know why that would be?

[eggbutt]

It is an interesting name and certainly doesn’t coincide with Hup-2-3-4 military cadence so my curiosity considered the Civil War General. Forgive me for going off topic, and no, I don’t read your or another’s posts due to redundancy and argumentative substance.

[hut-ho78]

I’m really curious to see if the civil trial discovery will include the correspondence sent to MB and MHG and RC just before the shooting, the information that sent RC’s and MHG’s fears in the wrong direction and sent MB over the edge. I wonder how much personal animus was included or just idle and mean gossip.

Clearly, the real danger was missed.

Per LK, the complaint to SafeSport was about bullying and they asked her if minor children were on the premises. The employee from the New Jersey Division of Child Protection and Permanency (DCPP) testified that it was not a sexual complaint. However, since MB had his breakdown while she was on premises or leaving then it seems like the call from SafeSport, a mandatory reporter, to DCPP was a valid call as was the original complaint from LK.

I hope when he is released, that he can find a peaceful place to continue to heal.

LK should have left any way she could. MB should not have shot her.

[lazaret]

@hut-ho78

Clearly, the real danger was missed.

That’s actually not at all clear which is why this civil suit is proceeding.

[Sdel]

@hut-ho78

I’m really curious to see if the civil trial discovery will include the correspondence sent to MB and MHG and RC just before the shooting, the information that sent RC’s and MHG’s fears in the wrong direction and sent MB over the edge. I wonder how much personal animus was included or just idle and mean gossip.

I hate to take the wind out of your sails…but the prosecution turned all that over a while ago….SGF asked for well before the criminal trial even started.

[hut-ho78]

@lazaret

@hut-ho78

Clearly, the real danger was missed.

That’s actually not at all clear which is why this civil suit is proceeding.

Oh really? I thought it was to at least recover medical costs and maybe even pain and suffering where both sides could claim damages and the jury will award partial or whole with possible offsets as they understand the facts.

This isn’t a wrongful death suit thanks to RG and LE.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@lazaret

@hut-ho78

It doesn’t sound like she is trying to get out of being deposed.

She doesn’t have an avenue to do this, as I’m sure her attorneys advised.

[quote] Not sure why they are pulling in JK and KK and the time frame. It will be interesting to see how that goes, if their attorneys have filed in response to narrow the request or dismiss the request.

It’s going to be ugly. Maybe not so much for LK and family as it’s already been so ugly for them.[/quote]

You have got to be joking.

Why are they pulling in the people who were involved in this both before and immediately after the shooting? Who have claimed to have documents material to the case?

You really don’t know why that would be?

They have the audio tapes from the criminal prosecution. Why do they need any transcripts that KK has done? Why wouldn’t they prefer transcripts produced by a neutral professional transcriber?

I think it’s mostly harassment. They can’t claim that she is the only one with access to the audio recordings.

[ekat]

@hut-ho78

However, since MB had his breakdown while she was on premises or leaving

I cannot wait to see evidence LK was leaving, since that didn’t make it into the criminal trial.

[hut-ho78]

@Sdel

@hut-ho78

I’m really curious to see if the civil trial discovery will include the correspondence sent to MB and MHG and RC just before the shooting, the information that sent RC’s and MHG’s fears in the wrong direction and sent MB over the edge. I wonder how much personal animus was included or just idle and mean gossip.

I hate to take the wind out of your sails…but the prosecution turned all that over a while ago….SGF asked for well before the criminal trial even started.

Oh good.

[eggbutt]

@CurrentlyHorseless

They can’t claim that she is the only one with access to the audio recordings.

But she is the one who bragged about working so hard to transcribe the illegal recordings and how horrible they were and what a bombshell they would be.

So, who else do you propose has or had access to the recordings? I’m sure several sets of attorneys would like your list.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@eggbutt

@CurrentlyHorseless

They can’t claim that she is the only one with access to the audio recordings.

But she is the one who bragged about working so hard to transcribe the illegal recordings and how horrible they were and what a bombshell they would be.

So, who else to you propose has or had access to the recordings? I’m sure several sets of attorneys would like your list.

The prosecutor turned over the audio recordings to SGF months ago. Barisone’s lawyers have had them for years prior to the criminal trial.

Which of the parties to the civil case — MB, RC, SGF, LK — would not have had the audio recordings for months?

I thought I’d be the other “certain poster” whose posts you don’t read, but no such luck.

[KurPlexed]

@ekat

The only thing I would add is lack of medical documentation would sink her emotional distress claims

What if her records show a preexisting condition? Would any settlement be discounted at a % based on what she already brought to the table?

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

The prosecutor turned over the audio recordings to SGF months ago. Barisone’s lawyers have had them for years prior to the criminal trial.

Which of the parties to the civil case — MB, RC, SGF, LK — would not have had the audio recordings for months?

At issue, per the motion filed by Mr Deininger, is not the actual recordings, but the transcripts Kirby Kanarek claims to have prepared.

The time for Kirby to argue whether or not they were relevant was when she received the subpoena and up to the deadline to respond. But, here we are, a couple weeks later with No Response at all, hence, the motion to be held in contempt.

Why Mr Deininger wants those transcripts is irrelevant at this time. How Kirby ignored the subpoena is currently at issue.