MB Civil Trial: JK/KK Contempt of Court?

[eggbutt]

It really is of no particular importance but I wonder what triggered Lauren to stop being the quasi-dedicated student she was with Robin? Could it have been total intimidation with having a new horse so different from Symphony? She does seem uncomfortable around unfamiliar horses as she showed in the 48 Hours episode.

But clearly something changed her drive after joining Barisone. I can only imagine what accomplishments she would have by now if she’d been as disciplined prior to Barisone and not be so hung up with “the name on the door” being her dedicated instructor. Maybe that “name on the door” crap is also applied to her other choices, like attorneys? A name on a door means just one thing - someone can apply text to a door!

[DownYonder]

@Jenerationx

I can’t imagine any attorney wanting to deal with them. Of course that begs the question as to why Nagle is putting up with it.

Perhaps Nagel is “putting up with it” by deliberately filing c*** motions/cross-motions. I can imagine him being pretty fed up with his client, and esp. if he isn’t getting paid, and esp. if JK and KK are trying to jump on the LK tab without a formal arrangement with the firm. I am guessing that his services are putting a bit of a dent in the old trust fund, and if they aren’t ponying up, he probably would rather be expending his efforts working on cases where there is a much better chance of winning a big settlement, such as a product liability lawsuit, etc. (And isn’t his expertise in the area of suing corporations?)

Then again, I may be giving him too much credit but it’s early on Sunday morning and I am feeling charitable at the moment.

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

In the 2019 August show she was signed up for, didn’t she brag on SM that she was signed up to show PSG?

Didn’t she saying she had competed through fourth, and was signed up for PSG, all before she was shot?

Maybe she did. I don’t know.

The point here is that it’s demonstrably false that she was riding that level before as evidenced by her scores and records. So it’s profoundly stupid to brag about giant leaps of improvement in your riding when you’re going to try to convince a jury of the exact opposite.

[Knights_Mom]

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

In the 2019 August show she was signed up for, didn’t she brag on SM that she was signed up to show PSG?

Didn’t she saying she had competed through fourth, and was signed up for PSG, all before she was shot?

Maybe she did. I don’t know.

The point here is that it’s demonstrably false that she was riding that level before as evidenced by her scores and records. So it’s profoundly stupid to brag about giant leaps of improvement in your riding when you’re going to try to convince a jury of the exact opposite.

Sssshhhhhh.

[eggbutt]

Maybe he swallowed the Kanarek narrative before learning all the facts, similar to the DA’s office!

[LilRanger]

@3PonyFarm

Does anyone know the laws to protect the disabled (including mental health issues) from abuse? I know of the elder abuse laws such as caregivers and nursing home situations, but what about abusive attacks (both verbal and physical) coming from others outside of these types of settings?

These laws would mostly be state by state if they exist. Outside of the Americans with Disabilities act, there isn’t much protection. Potentially hate crime statutes, which are federal. People with behavioral health issues are pretty screwed in this country on a lot of levels. If you are diagnosed with a particular disability before you are 18, you would get Medicaid and other services. But no protections.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

Maybe she did. I don’t know.

The point here is that it’s demonstrably false that she was riding that level before as evidenced by her scores and records. So it’s profoundly stupid to brag about giant leaps of improvement in your riding when you’re going to try to convince a jury of the exact opposite.

Well, no, not exactly.

If there were records that she had competed at fourth and PSG, it would be demonstrably true that she was riding at those levels.

But the fact that there is no record that she has her Silver medal does not make it “demonstrably false” that she is riding at that level at home.

What I remember, vaguely, is that she had all her scores through fourth, except for one missing score at third level before the shooting. She claimed that with the final score at third, she’d have her bronze, and then once she had scores at PSG, she’d have her silver.

One of the reasons it seemed dubious that Barisone had actually asked her to leave in the weeks prior to the shooting was that she was scheduled to compete in what she claimed was a big show at PSG the following weekend.

[Graymaresrule]

Why would it matter if she changed barns and coaches shortly before a show?

[jvanrens]

@cutter99

@ekat

@ohnoO

Well, Seeker and IM have not been posting for a while, so maybe they got the message?

One could hope. I’m reserving judgment based on the rants we saw from IM a couple weeks ago, which were well after the Motion for Contempt was filed against him.

Remember when good ole Seeker came here and asked us to give her our names??? Our real names???

And she honestly thought we were that stupid!!!

Good times, right???

But we could PM to her if we preferred. Such a generous offer.

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

If there were records that she had competed at fourth and PSG, it would be demonstrably true that she was riding at those levels

Big if there, especially the PSG part.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Graymaresrule

Why would it matter if she changed barns and coaches shortly before a show?

In hindsight, obviously it would have been preferable for her to scratch the show the following weekend and leave on the sixth rather then get shot.

The point is that if she was entered into a big show with Barisone as coach the following weekend, and was set to receive another horse out of quarantine that week, with Barisone’s approval, that is inconsistent with the idea that MB had asked her “many, many times” over the previous weeks to leave.

It is entirely consistent with what JK said in the excellent 48 hours broadcast: that the situation went very suddenly from a cold war to a hot war on August 1. According to testimony from MHG, MB had still not asked her to leave as of Aug 3. Tarshis notified her of the demand to vacate on Aug 5th, but testified that MB “did not want to evict her”.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

If there were records that she had competed at fourth and PSG, it would be demonstrably true that she was riding at those levels

Big if there, especially the PSG part.

I was just making a logical point, Ekat.

I have no idea whether she was riding at the PSG level prior to being shot. But your statement that it was “demonstrably false” that she was riding at the PSG level was not correct.

[eggbutt]

Once more for clarity, here is Lauren’s record indicating the levels and median score

She has shown twice since 8/7/19

Posting this information is not a commentary on Lauren’s ability or talent.

[CanteringCarrot]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Graymaresrule

Why would it matter if she changed barns and coaches shortly before a show?

In hindsight, obviously it would have been preferable for her to scratch the show the following weekend and leave on the sixth rather then get shot.

The point is that if she was entered into a big show with Barisone as coach the following weekend, and was set to receive another horse out of quarantine that week, with Barisone’s approval, that is inconsistent with the idea that MB had asked her “many, many times” over the previous weeks to leave.

It is entirely consistent with what JK said in the excellent 48 hours broadcast: that the situation went very suddenly from a cold war to a hot war on August 1. According to testimony from MHG, MB had still not asked her to leave as of Aug 3. Tarshis notified her of the demand to vacate on Aug 5th, but testified that MB “did not want to evict her”.

It’s also entirely consistent with LK being in absolute denial that she was being asked to leave, dug her heels in, and warned to stick around as long as possible/to finish the bastard.

It’s also entirely possible she hadn’t scratched her entry yet. It’s also entirely possible that it was difficult to change where the horse would go after quarantine, so the “default” of going to Barisone’s barn was still there

I am not sure that I’d believe the words from LK re “did not want to evict her” and the “facts” that you stated could point to a few things other than what JK said. I know you’re a fan of his though but just some other things to consider.

[CanteringCarrot]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

If there were records that she had competed at fourth and PSG, it would be demonstrably true that she was riding at those levels

Big if there, especially the PSG part.

I was just making a logical point, Ekat.

I have no idea whether she was riding at the PSG level prior to being shot. But your statement that it was “demonstrably false” that she was riding at the PSG level was not correct.

How so? You lost me there.

[eggbutt]

Apparently some posters don’t comprehend that dressage shows can be entered weeks in advance and, as I recall, Lauren liked to enter the day the show opened for entries. Barisone did not submit her entries for her. As mentioned several times before, Lauren had a habit of entering classes and not participating in the class, in other words, many no shows and scratches.

Scratches are not at all uncommon at upper levels or certain divisions when a median score is used to qualify for whatever the goal is. If a horse is acting up or not performing up to its training in the warm-up, some will rightfully scratch rather then risk lowering their median score. Lauren was not showing under those circumstances.

[3PonyFarm]

Thank you, how sad that a vulnerable population doesn’t have more protection.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@CanteringCarrot

I am not sure that I’d believe the words from LK re “did not want to evict her” and the “facts” that you stated could point to a few things other than what JK said. I

It was Tarshis who said under oath that MB did not want to evict her, and instead wanted to “scare her” into leaving.

I agree with everything else you said.

[2tempe]

Some thoughts re her riding:
She had done a couple 4th level tests before the big mess.

Second, it seems that no one has been able to identify any trainer that she is working with.

Third, schooling PSG and /or GP doesn’t mean you are now capable of showing. I showed my horse PSG and I-1. Was schooling GP movements, ie a little piaffe and passage. But aside from age (mine and the beast’s) there was a little problem called 1 tempi changes. They tended to overwork his brain… We could do 3. Not 15. And they were done as a stand alone line, properly set up, not as part of a series of movements. Could she be working half steps - maybe. Generally would want ground help early on. Pirouettes, or half pirouettes possibly, 3’s and 4’s sure. In snippets, not running the test, not competing,

[eggbutt]

@CanteringCarrot

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Graymaresrule

Why would it matter if she changed barns and coaches shortly before a show?

In hindsight, obviously it would have been preferable for her to scratch the show the following weekend and leave on the sixth rather then get shot.

The point is that if she was entered into a big show with Barisone as coach the following weekend, and was set to receive another horse out of quarantine that week, with Barisone’s approval, that is inconsistent with the idea that MB had asked her “many, many times” over the previous weeks to leave.

It is entirely consistent with what JK said in the excellent 48 hours broadcast: that the situation went very suddenly from a cold war to a hot war on August 1. According to testimony from MHG, MB had still not asked her to leave as of Aug 3. Tarshis notified her of the demand to vacate on Aug 5th, but testified that MB “did not want to evict her”.

It’s also entirely consistent with LK being in absolute denial that she was being asked to leave, dug her heels in, and warned to stick around as long as possible/to finish the bastard.

It’s also entirely possible she hadn’t scratched her entry yet. It’s also entirely possible that it was difficult to change where the horse would go after quarantine, so the “default” of going to Barisone’s barn was still there

I am not sure that I’d believe the words from LK re “did not want to evict her” and the “facts” that you stated could point to a few things other than what JK said. I know you’re a fan of his though but just some other things to consider.

JK also fibs, IMO. Honestly who knows what Lauren told her daddy to keep the money flowing? One master manipulator to another. JK certainly should know Lauren says whatever she wants people to believe and generally that is far from the truth.

As far as Michael coaching her at shows, IF he was at the show the rule is ALWAYS a coach gives their time to the client riding the higher level test if rides conflict among students. That is why Justin and MH were usually available to coach as well. Let’s face it, MOST competitors with the show experience Lauren has should be able to show without being coached if they are prepared. This line of bologna is simply another example of demanding Barisone’s undivided attention!