MB Civil Trial: JK/KK Contempt of Court?

I’ve taken everyone down a rabbit hole. Sorry. Back to the case.

Can we be sure that Mr. D is getting the SM postings on all the various sites? I can’t imagine his staff is big enough to keep track of it all.

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Looks like something I’d never ever conceive of using or allow to be used on my horse.

All these ridiculous contraceptions for the lazy rider are detrimental as they only end up with a BTV horse who has been tortured into avouding contact as opposed to seeking contact. It makes them behind the bit, not on it. And who knows what’s under that square piece of leather.

Seems this contraption is trying to mitigate mouth pressure but it offers the horse no escape. And no chance of the horse being poll high.

But at least the horse is wearing matching pretty white boots in the Florida heat.

“My horses are everything to me”.

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Sorry, just awake on my side of the world, and responding to you and @Fiesta01 from her/his question overnight. I think (to the best of my knowledge and belief :wink: ) they may be “bungies”, a stretchy type of side rein, and I saw them used a bit in Germany over the years I was there, but they certainly weren’t an every day type of thing (livery yard of around 80-100 horses, from kids on lesson ponies to higher end dressage and reiners). My first trainer used them to create a false roundness on her big WBs but my second trainer (who was much better) wouldn’t hear of them being used on any of hers. I have no personal experience of using them, but I saw them threaded up in various ways.

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If LK can’t prove that MB is responsible for her injuries, and its entirely unknown how she received them, ie, could have been LK and RG attacking MB and the gun went off accidently, could have been LK did it to herself, could have been RG shot her for whatever reason, who knows, but if they can’t proved that he did it, how can they ask for damages? The only thing I can think of is that property liablity might pay for her hospital costs, no matter what happened on the property or how it happened, but they might not be liable, and it might be that LK was required to carry her own insurance, or sign a waiver.

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I have to say, the rider is really leaning into the interior of the bend. I did this when I fist started dressage, but when I found my horse dropping his shoulder, I realized I was asking him to do it by leaning in, myself. I would have thought at this advanced stage of dressage she would be straighter.

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Re side reins, other contraptions, and Germany:

So I’ve lived and ridden in Germany for many, many, years. Side reins, Vienna reins, bungees, you name it, they all exist here. Many lower level riders use Vienna reins (Dreieckszügel) while riding, and they’re even allowed in some cases at the lowest level of competition (E level). They’re frequently used on school horses and for beginner, unstable, or otherwise inexperienced riders.

It’s not something I’m a huge fan with, and in my experience, many that train the traditional German way, train with force and not so much regard for the horse. I’m actually really turned off re some Germsn training methods, ideas, and practices. Then again, I switched from Warmbloods to Iberians and the German methods and training scale are more suited toward a Warmblood type vs an Iberian.

Since so many of the horses ridden here are Warmbloods they can be harder for the novice rider to sit, control, and ride properly, so the vienna reins “help” the rider and give them a few less things to worry about while they focus on their position.

While typical German riding isn’t quite as extreme as the reputation that the Dutch have earned, it can be rather hand heavy and a lot of riding “forward” into a strong, or even backwards hand. That’s a huge trend in my area, and I can’t help but think that starting out in Vienna reins played a role in this. It’s quite forcefull and the “horse must this” or the “horse must that” and sometimes the thinking is so not at all creative and fixed. Obviously this works for some people, I guess.

These are all generalizations, but also things that I have repeatedly witnessed with my own eyes while rising in recognized competition, participating in riding lessons and clinics, and just being around a few boarding stables.

I definitely take some things from the Germans and find them valuable, but I don’t fully subscribe to their ways, but I think that can be the case for many riders.

As for what device LK is using in that video, I’m not sure. It’s probably something so advanced that we plebs cannot comprehend it. Same with “bowing” and “Halt! Halt!” perhaps.

I’m not so into devices and usually there are other ways to accomplish the end goal, correctly. Especially if you’re riding at PSG and have extensive knowledge. If you’re a lower level rider still figuring things out and rather weak in your skills, then perhaps your instructor might throw in a gadget such as this.

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Another pet peeve of mine, and I’d say this even if the photo showed Charlotte Dujardin, is that the girth on that horse is too short/small, and the billet straps are untidy. Dressage girths that are too small bother me. Especially when one has money to afford ALL of the girths :wink: but sooo many riders, including those at the top, ride with girths that are too short.

I’m not a huge Isabell Werth fan, but I will say that her girths are usually well fitted/very close to the bottom of her saddle pad. Don’t ask me why I fixate on these things. :sweat_smile:

Edit: fixing autocorrect errors.

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My mentor was trained in Germany and wouldn’t use that thing. But he and his contemporaries are long gone now.

They just don’t make trainers like they used to.

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But sometimes that’s a good thing :sweat_smile:

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I was eyeballing that too CC, how you can expect a horse to fully and softly use their range of foreleg motion when the point of the elbow gets clunked by buckles at every stride ……
Flappy girth straps too 🫣 it’s just a lack of thought / care, not checking your tack.

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That is what it looks like to me too.

I have also never seen anything like that. Very unique.

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This is not a neck stretcher. This is something made up. It loops through the flash loop on the nose and, and sets the horse’s head. I’ve never seen it in any catalog or tack store. It does nothing for the rider or the horse.
If anyone put this on my horse, Ulf Moeller included, I’d beat them with a buggy whip.

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I agree with your thoughts.
I was responding to the post that said medical costs would be awarded to LK to clarify that the medical costs, if awarded, would go to insurance if there was insurance that paid for her care.

Maybe no one ever taught her groom about these things?

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Thanks for posting that picture, which shows the rig so clearly.

Also, holy cow.

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I’ve often thought about trying to create a timeline chart of what happened when in the week or so leading up to the shooting. But there was so much going on and things were developing at such a rapid pace that I think it will be seriously complicated to try to get all that data onto a chart.

As for diagrams of relationships - that could be done, although the timelines would be tricky to determine with certainty.

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@DownYonder, @ekat has a pretty inclusive list of the timeline of events that they have posted.

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Dear bliddy lord.
That ‘thing’ is horrendous. I mean what on earth can they think the benefit from it is?
Cheese wire thin pressure on the nose (padding or no), badly fitted cavesson as it is, leverage through the bit (that also looks to be hoiked so high the horse is gurning like joker) no finesse to it whatsoever.
The only thing that will teach a horse to do is to overbend and avoid all contact or get used to the pain, bounce off it and get hard in the mouth.
That pokey upper lip and triangulated chin tell us all what the horse thinks of it!

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Imagine the canter that mare would have without contraptions and being properly ridden from behind. Gadgets…for the lazy rider IMO. I guess Ulf had a job to do and doesn’t care how it is achieved. I don’t know anything about him but if I were of an age and need of a trainer, it wouldn’t be with someone using gimmicks rather than teaching the horse self carriage and the rider how to ride correctly without hanging on the mouth. This video and others I’ve seen appear to me that Lauren is seriously overhorsed and is bringing these talented animals down to her level rather than working hard on herself to rise up to their level. But, at least she loves her horses and treats them well.

By the way, I would LOVE for Lauren to learn to ride correctly and succeed in the dressage ring! Think how her self esteem and self confidence would rise if she could devote the time to work on her core and learn from the basics up and become really successful. I would be among the first to congratulate her. IMO the last thing she needs is an Olympic caliber trainer but a really good solid trainer who can focus on her 100%.

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Here are all the dates I have pulled out from either court testimony, court filings, or actually seeing the SM posts.

If there were a way to chart it, that would be awesome!

April 20, 2019 LK FB post that she put up cameras around the property

April 27, 2019, Meeting with MHG, MB, LK, and her dad. MHG told her to leave.

July 10 CPS search on LK’s phone

July 12 FB posts about MHG (king captured, queen killed)

July 21 FB post I don’t bluff

Horse show 07/23-07/24

July 25 rambling FB Post about MHG, mentions recordings and videos, “it’s war”

July 25 - also another post about voice memos, “call the world” going to war

End of July Mr Tarshis starts negotiating with JK for at least a week.

July 30: many personalities FB post

July 31: recorders purchased (per LK testimony)

July 31: MB hires private investigator

July 31: LK says she bought the cameras

July 31: first 911 call

Aug 1: 2nd 911 call - this is the call that came about to report that RG was bullying, intimating, and harassing two minors, among other issues.

Aug 1: Hay Guy starts watching barn. I love Hay Guy.

Aug 2: text between LK and dad about admissibility of recordings

Aug 2: Mr Tarshis believes he and JK have reached an agreement for LK to move.

Aug 2: LK makes call to SS, per her testimony

Aug 2: Ruth Cox arrives

Aug 3: Instead of packing, RG was doing internet searches to find MHG’s kids. (From MB’s suit against police)

Aug 3: force of numbers, wait till Monday texts between MHG and MB (where MHG asks why they can’t tell LK they are evicting her)

Aug 3: 911 call. This is when LK tells police she has hidden recordings

Aug 4: 911 call where RG can be heard shouting in background

Aug 4: Search for exploding bullets on LK’s phone

Aug 4th late night/possibly early Aug 5th: people were incapable of unplugging a dryer

Aug 5: Steve Tarshis emails a notice to leave letter to LK - Could this have been a 3-day notice, since he gave her till Aug 7th to get out? Presumably with the intent of filing an eviction on the 8th?

Aug 5: MB goes to police station

Aug 5: “Michael is scared” text to dad

Aug 5: LK reports MB to SS (based on her sm posts).

Aug 5: JK hires ED

Aug 5: RG takes his handwritten (by LK) complaint to the building inspectors

Aug 6: LK served with eviction notice.

Aug 6: cameras installed per LK interrogatories in civil suit

Aug 6: LK posts insanity manifesto on FB; also “solid gold” post on FB

Aug 6: MHG mails her SS complaint

Aug 6: ED meets LK for first time with JK, while RG secretly records meeting

Aug 6: Inspectors, fire Marshall, etc descend on farm twice

Aug 6: MB and everyone else living in barn given boot.

Aug 6: RC bitten by poor Rosie while trying to post notices

Aug 6: LK convinces fire Marshall to let her back in house. No one notifies MB

Aug 7: Farrier service refused which resulted in “Finish The Bastard” text.

Aug 7: 1:42 pm video clip sent to RG’s phone. Cameras then turned off.

Aug 7: CPS shows up

Aug 7: shooting

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This is not a happy horse. :frowning: Obviously she was not allowed to relax or stretch I’m that lesson.

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