MB Civil Trial: JK/KK Contempt of Court?

[Sdel]

@smoofox

I grabbed some sparse Joker mane in my right hand and trusted him.

We flew.

I opened my eyes when he landed and we galloped down the adjoining field between the round bales. I glanced back to see the bigger horses coming behind us with my friend (on his Prelim horse) shouting “YOU DID IT!”

I would have died. Stick me in a box and bury me just reading about it.

[DownYonder]

@CanteringCarrot

On a related note, I can be lenient with pictures because they are just a glimpse and a snapshot of one short moment in time, but I’m generally not for gadgets. I do feel as though some big name trainers are under pressure to produce results and produce them quickly, so regard for the horse takes a back seat. It’s also difficult and time consuming to teach feel to a rider, and some trainers really just aren’t good at it. I’m speaking generally here, not about Dr. Möller. Some trainers can slap together the “picture” and the rider will make it around the sandbox with an okay-ish score, but some are brilliantly creative and have very good feel, even off of the horse and can really instruct brilliantly. Some people get impatient though, and think that progress should be fast and a steady uphill climb, when in reality it can be a bit all over the place at times, but still on an upward trajectory.

Riding and dressage is really mental, but some people cannot grasp that or just aren’t capable of that type of mind expansion and comprehension and only focus on forcing the physical picture.

Good post!

I will add that it is entirely possible that LK wanted to make a video of herself riding with Ulf and wanted to try to look like an Olympic rider ( ) in the video - and maybe to try to prove a point to someone. But Ulf knew there was no way he could get her to get horsie engaged without some help, so the short term goal of making a video on a “round” horsie took priority over the long term goal of really learning how to make horsie round without mechanical assistance.

[DownYonder]

@CanteringCarrot

Many riders do find this without gadgets or side reins though.

Good point. But they are probably more dedicated and stronger, with more stamina, and are more effective with better feel and better control of their bodies.

[DownYonder]

@smoofox

So Joker the little Appy was available

And what a perfect name for an Appy!

[MHM]

@DownYonder

I will add that it is entirely possible that LK wanted to make a video of herself riding with Ulf and wanted to try to look like an Olympic rider ( ) in the video - and maybe to try to prove a point to someone. But Ulf knew there was no way he could get her to get horsie engaged without some help, so the short term goal of making a video on a “round” horsie took priority over the long term goal of really learning how to make horsie round without mechanical assistance.

If that’s the case, I can only think of the plan as a huge flop.

A video of a horse that is “round” due to a cord over its nose is not going to impress anyone with half a clue. And the clueless people won’t know the difference between round or not, with or without a cord over its nose.

[DownYonder]

@DownYonder

nobody has a sense of humor like an Appy! If they were human, they would be the greatest practical jokers!

@eggbutt

Except a Saddlebred!

Ha, my aunt had Saddlebreds and I’m not sure they could hold a candle to an App when it comes to being a prankster!

[DownYonder]

@MHM

@DownYonder

I will add that it is entirely possible that LK wanted to make a video of herself riding with Ulf and wanted to try to look like an Olympic rider ( ) in the video - and maybe to try to prove a point to someone. But Ulf knew there was no way he could get her to get horsie engaged without some help, so the short term goal of making a video on a “round” horsie took priority over the long term goal of really learning how to make horsie round without mechanical assistance.

If that’s the case, I can only think of the plan as a huge flop.

A video of a horse that is “round” due to a cord over its nose is not going to impress anyone with half a clue. And the clueless people won’t know the difference between round or not, with or without a cord over its nose.

Agree it would have truly been a flop with folks who know what they are looking at. And clueless folks wouldn’t recognized the difference. Then you get the folks who are somewhere in the middle and know just enough to understand that a dressage horse is supposed to look - ahem - “round” but don’t get it that a mechanical device is being used to make the horsie look round. And I wouldn’t be surprised if she told them the device was to help HER because she was(don’t you know) all weak and not right from “being shot twice in the chest at point blank range.”

[BrownDerby]

Many Joker stallion lines in the Appy registry. The famous Plaudit was by a Joker stud as well.

My farrier’s in-laws owned the great Crocodile. The have this huge photo of him in their barn aisle.

[Jealoushe]

@DownYonder

I will add that it is entirely possible that LK wanted to make a video of herself riding with Ulf and wanted to try to look like an Olympic rider ( ) in the video - and maybe to try to prove a point to someone. But Ulf knew there was no way he could get her to get horsie engaged without some help, so the short term goal of making a video on a “round” horsie took priority over the long term goal of really learning how to make horsie round without mechanical assistance.

That’s quite the story you’ve made up.

I noticed most people are blaming LK for this but not much being said about the trainer. Both are to blame for this contraption.

[DownYonder]

@smoofox

Maybe not so much incredible talent - but connection. We did have that. Here is a visual representation of Joker (h) in the line up at that clinic…

H H H H H h H H H H

He also saved my butt on our first hunt together - we were thundering single file along a trail in the woods - the wind in my ears, full of exhilaration… and my friend behind me on his big grey called out - “This comes out to the field over the Trakehner!” I had jump judged that Trakehner fence at some 3 days events - it was on the Prelim course built into that fenceline and I was NOT a Prelim rider!! What The Fruitbat indeed! The horse and rider ahead of us swooped around the corner out of sight and I heard that horse gather himself and push off… no where to turn off… horses coming behind me… all I could do was add more leg and close my eyes as we came around the corner to that jump - as I knew I might pull off to the side in a panic (horses galloping behind me - so no) if I looked at that solid log on chains over the ditch. I grabbed some sparse Joker mane in my right hand and trusted him.

We flew.

I opened my eyes when he landed and we galloped down the adjoining field between the round bales. I glanced back to see the bigger horses coming behind us with my friend (on his Prelim horse) shouting “YOU DID IT!”

We lived!

Here’s to all the little Jokers out there, holding their own with TBs and Warmbloods!

What a wonderful story! Yep, I did the biggest jump of my life on my little Appy mare. I was always a chicken-s*** about jumping but had no choice to not take a HUGE log one day while out galloping trails with friends. We were a large group and were motoring along like wild Indians when all of a sudden this fallen tree appeared in front of us across the trail. There were too many horses chasing along behind us to risk pulling up so we just went for it (maresie always had to be in front, even though she was much smaller than many of the other horses). Whee - she never hesitated and flew it like it was something we did every day. And I somehow managed to stay in the tack, which is a bit of a miracle in and of itself. Ah, the good ol’ days!

[Joanne]

@Ghazzu

There is a device used by many Arabian/NSH trainers that sounds similar to what you describe:

Didn’t Gene LaCroix invent that? I even had one for a while.

[Sdel]

@DownYonder

But Ulf knew there was no way he could get her to get horsie engaged without some help, so the short term goal of making a video on a “round” horsie took priority over the long term goal of really learning how to make horsie round without mechanical assistance.

I imagine it was more a lack of caring. Ulf probably has enough going on that LK was a drop in his bucket of things to do, whether she showed or not, that he simply didn’t care what she did or didn’t do during a lesson. I imagine he just went along doing whatever he had to do so as not to have a headache to deal with. I imagine that is how the K’s prefer things to go: shut up and let me do as I want.

[DownYonder]

@BrownDerby

Many Joker stallion lines in the Appy registry. The famous Plaudit was by a Joker stud as well.

My farrier’s in-laws owned the great Crocodile. The have this huge photo of him in their barn aisle.

A former boss and his wife stood a Joker-bred stallion, and we had an Appy at a dressage barn I was at for many years that taught dozens and dozens and dozens of beginners the rudiments of dressage. He could also jump and was a great trail horse unless he saw deer - he could do a 180 “I’m outa here” faster than any horse I have ever ridden!

[CanteringCarrot]

@Jealoushe

That’s quite the story you’ve made up.

I noticed most people are blaming LK for this but not much being said about the trainer. Both are to blame for this contraption.

Quite a bit has been said about the trainer, actually.

Plus, as the horses owner and rider, you’re(g) the advocate for the horse. I have stopped a clinic before (private, just me and the instructor) when I felt as though the clinicians methods were detrimental to my training goals and my horses health and well being. I’ve only done it once, it took a lot of guts, but I owed it to my horse to be his advocate. The clinician and I had a good discussion and parted ways amicably.

[MHM]

@BrownDerby

Many Joker stallion lines in the Appy registry. The famous Plaudit was by a Joker stud as well.

My farrier’s in-laws owned the great Crocodile. The have this huge photo of him in their barn aisle.

Funnily enough, there was another successful Appaloosa jumper named Crocodile about 20 years later on the East Coast. I think he ended up being a good horse for Henri Prudent.

[OntheFnce]

@eggbutt

Imagine the canter that mare would have without contraptions and being properly ridden from behind. Gadgets…for the lazy rider IMO. I guess Ulf had a job to do and doesn’t care how it is achieved. I don’t know anything about him but if I were of an age and need of a trainer, it wouldn’t be with someone using gimmicks rather than teaching the horse self carriage and the rider how to ride correctly without hanging on the mouth. This video and others I’ve seen appear to me that Lauren is seriously overhorsed and is bringing these talented animals down to her level rather than working hard on herself to rise up to their level. But, at least she loves her horses and treats them well.

By the way, I would LOVE for Lauren to learn to ride correctly and succeed in the dressage ring! Think how her self esteem and self confidence would rise if she could devote the time to work on her core and learn from the basics up and become really successful. I would be among the first to congratulate her. IMO the last thing she needs is an Olympic caliber trainer but a really good solid trainer who can focus on her 100%.

This! Olympic caliber trainers are not necessarily the best at teaching the fundamentals.

[DownYonder]

Yeah, I am finally caught up on posts!

So to get back to the filings. Legal Eagles, am I interpreting this correctly?

The judge is trying to decide how to rule on:

• Three motions filed on 8/24
• One cross-motion filed on 8/31
• An opposition to a motion filed on 9/1
• A cross-motion filed on 9/1
• An opposition to a motion filed on 9/4
• An opposition to a motion filed on 9/6
• Two cross-motions to quash filed on 9/15
• Three oppositions to motions filed on 9/16

Plus he has to wade through reply briefs submitted on 9/6 and 9/16.

And given the complexity (and vagueness (?) and sloppiness (?)) of some of the filings, I guess I am not surprised it is taking him so long to issue decisions.

[Knights_Mom]

@Mersidoats

This is not a neck stretcher. This is something made up. It loops through the flash loop on the nose and, and sets the horse’s head. I’ve never seen it in any catalog or tack store. It does nothing for the rider or the horse.
If anyone put this on my horse, Ulf Moeller included, I’d beat them with a buggy whip.

That horse is clearly stressed out. Seeing the horse’s obvious signs of discomfort along with the smiley face rather irritates my bowels unpleasantly.

Now to catch up on 220+ posts. Thanks guys!!

[eggbutt]

@Sdel

@DownYonder

But Ulf knew there was no way he could get her to get horsie engaged without some help, so the short term goal of making a video on a “round” horsie took priority over the long term goal of really learning how to make horsie round without mechanical assistance.

I imagine it was more a lack of caring. Ulf probably has enough going on that LK was a drop in his bucket of things to do, whether she showed or not, that he simply didn’t care what she did or didn’t do during a lesson. I imagine he just went along doing whatever he had to do so as not to have a headache to deal with. I imagine that is how the K’s prefer things to go: shut up and let me do as I want.

If I recall an LK post correctly from somewhere, she commented that she wasn’t “allowed” to show until she rode a 90% at home. If that was Ulf who said that, he guaranteed he’d never take anyone to a show!

[eggbutt]

I agree 100000% because they expect the basics to be there before they get the rider. Again, I point back to Lauren’s excellent show experience just a few months prior to coming to him so he could have assumed the basics were confirmed.