MB update

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Oh gosh CH - I sincerely am not implying you are this random Gail person.

I was just referencing the public YT comment string.

[ThreeWishes]

Saw this thread earlier. Wondered why it had exploded. Now I know why. Same old same old. Ya’ll just need to learn how to IGNORE.
Ps. Edited to add the squirrel drawing is lovely. And so apropos… squirrel!!!

[Angela_Freda]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

The general gist of the comment though is that if a patient acquittee in a secure mental health facility was in touch with people outside of the facility,

And he’d be in touch with them, how?
Mental telepathy?

[DownYonder]

As I said earlier, your passionate advocacy for LK and her quest for vindication seems so very at odds with your claims to have no connection to the K-Klan. It is becoming increasingly hard to believe that you don’t have some skin in the game.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@DownYonder

As I said earlier, your passionate advocacy for LK and her quest for vindication seems so very at odds with your claims to have no connection to the K-Klan. It is becoming increasingly hard to believe that you don’t have some skin in the game.

I have no connection to LK, the Kanarek family, or the Kanarek legal team.

I am not attempting to “vindicate” her.

You are free to think whatever you like.

[trubandloki]

@McGurk

Would someone be kind enough to PM me links to the YT comments or screenshots?

I’ve been digging around in that muck for 30 minutes and can’t find anything recent.

I have never found them, I gave up back during the trial. I can find the videos but I can never find the comments people are talking about

@ThreeWishes

Ps. Edited to add the squirrel drawing is lovely. And so apropos… squirrel!!!

I had the same thought and I have been giggling about it all day. Glad I am not the only one.

.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@trubandloki

I have never found them, I gave up back during the trial. I can find the videos but I can never find the comments people are talking about

I’ll pm you the one I am referencing.

[BigMama1]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

I think LK has been subject to “intimidation, harassment and abuse”

Get a grip. Talking about someone is not “intimidation, harassment, or abuse.”

And in case it needs to be said again, talking about someone’s own actual words and actions is not “trash talking.”

None of MB’s “supporters” have written manifestos about destroying her, nor are they skulking around her property at night dressed all in black. None of them have filed false reports with police or other local agencies, nor have they posted threats against her on social media. Nobody is accosting her at the supermarket, or lying in wait at the entrance to the barn. Nobody has prevented her in anyway from simply getting on with her life, period. No intimidation. No harassment. No abuse.

[Graymaresrule]

I can’t find them either

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

I have pointed out previously that while MB and those close to him have refrained from posting on SM, it appears that neither he, nor his lawyers, nor his closest personal friends have seen fit to encourage his “supporters” to lay off LK and let her live in peace and get on with her life. He’s obviously in touch with LO and his lawyers. I’m not saying he has activity requested via LO that his “supporters on CotH” trash LK and attempt to get her blackballed from trainers and barns. At the same time, Eggbutt has admitted that she is in communication with insiders in the MB camp.

I think LK has been subject to “intimidation, harassment and abuse”, at times extremely viciously, on these threads over the last three years. It was interesting to me that the NJ constitutional bill of victims rights mentions exactly this behavior as a violation of a victims rights. If all this activity arose spontaneously without direct requests from MB himself, does that make it OK?

It seems both you and LK are unclear as to whether or not it will be LK herself, or Schellhorn, who will be presenting this “new evidence” at the Krol hearing.

I’m not this Gail Cullinan person, have not read her comments on “new evidence”, and I’m not saying anything about “new evidence”. You’re right that I don’t know whether LKs position as the victim will be represented by LK herself or by Schellhorn.

Bluntly… even if it was possible that a scenario existed where either LK or Schellhorn attempted to present this supposed “new evidence “ at the Krol hearing… I’m pretty sure such an effort would be met with a firm “OBJECTION!” by MBs attorney, as what 3rd parties say on social media about anyone involved in this case is not “new evidence” that has any material relevance to the question of MBs current mental state. The Krol hearing is about his current mental state.

According to the statement of victims rights, “intimidation, harassment, and abuse” by third party supporters is a violation of the victim’s rights.

Just calling that one as I see it.

My responses in bold.

OK CH.

Just a few things.

1). I don’t think MB or his attorney or his inner circle (LO) has any obligation to say anything about any of the social media discussion related to this case. Do you disagree?

2). I think there are many reasons desirable programs will choose NOT to take on a particular client who is in the midst of a highly public legal drama, of both a criminal and civil variety. I don’t think “blackballing” is really much of a factor, nor is social media chatter.

Most programs will look at a situation like this, and just say “Oh. You’re embroiled in litigation 6 ways to Sunday related to a major incident, and sued everyone involved in the incident, including the farm and underlying lllc, and a fellow client… all before it even went to a criminal trial? Gosh. That sounds really serious. Good luck with all that. And by the way - sorry - but we just don’t have an opening for any new clients at our facility right now.”

3). I think provisions prohibiting “intimidation, harassment and abuse” of witnesses and crime victims during public legal proceedings TYPICALLY are there for the protection of people being threatened by gangs, organized crime, or who are sexual assault victims. That’s my general sense of what these provisions relate to, and the sort of “intimidation, harassment and abuse” of witnesses and victims that prosecutors will prioritize cracking down on.

I don’t think mean posts on social media, though probably unpleasant, are in the same category as other types of threats of violent crime at the hands of fellow gang members, etc. Perhaps mean posts on social media could be construed as a violation of a crime victim or witnesses civil rights though. Probably action would need to be taken via civil litigation though, and a defamation lawsuit. There is a very high threshold when it comes to success in such lawsuits…

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@BigMama1

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

I think LK has been subject to “intimidation, harassment and abuse”

Get a grip. Talking about someone is not “intimidation, harassment, or abuse.”

And in case it needs to be said again, talking about someone’s own actual words and actions is not “trash talking.”

None of MB’s “supporters” have written manifestos about destroying her, nor are they skulking around her property at night dressed all in black. None of them have filed false reports with police or other local agencies, nor have they posted threats against her on social media. Nobody is accosting her at the supermarket, or lying in wait at the entrance to the barn. Nobody has prevented her in anyway from simply getting on with her life, period. No intimidation. No harassment. No abuse

Just for the record, the way this post appears, it looks like I am the one who is being quoted. But… it’s actually a comment that @CurrentlyHorseless made, and bigmama1 is responding to that.

[BigMama1]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Just for the record, the way this post appears, it looks like I am the one who is being quoted. But… it’s actually a comment that @CurrentlyHorseless made, and bigmama1 is responding to that.

Yes, I was trying to reply to CH’s comments that they had added within your post.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Angela_Freda

And he’d be in touch with them, how?
Mental telepathy?

There seems to be an insinuation that MB is in contact with his inner circle of family/very close friends/loved ones, and then these folks are in touch with other folks in the broader dressage community… and that is why there is persistent negative commentary on social media about certain parties involved in this case.

It seems they are insinuating that this is all a deliberate strategy to intimidate and harass a victim/witness.

It’s a big dressage oriented collusion/conspiracy… all focused on one particular adult amateur, who has been INCREDIBLY vocal herself on social media over the last 3 years.

This seems to be the line of thinking/argument.

They seem to be discounting the POSSIBILITY that lots of people took notice of LKs own activities on social media… and developed a negative impression of her… and began discussing some of her more colorful and controversial public posts.

[MorganSercu]

1. MB’s admittance to AK was delayed due to lack of space. I suspect this has also led to delays in evaluations, plus Covid resetting the clock for so MANY things and now vacation season.

It sucks.

2. He is probably a better artist than we realize because his equipment is very limited by the facility for the safety of ALL the patients and staff.

3. His rendition of the common gray fuzzy-tailed tree rat is very good indeed. I would love to see him draw a red squirrel or a flying squirrel. Bats are also cool, IMO. They can use more support.

4. I hope his CLOSED hearing goes well and he can be released in short order.

ETA:

5. Lara is a lovely rider and should be rightfully very proud of what she and her mare have achieved. She does it while running a business and so much more too.

[ekat]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

I think provisions prohibiting “intimidation, harassment and abuse” of witnesses and crime victims during public legal proceedings TYPICALLY are there for the protection of people being threatened by gangs, organized crime, or who are sexual assault victims. That’s my general sense of what these provisions relate to, and the sort of “intimidation, harassment and abuse” of witnesses and victims that prosecutors will prioritize cracking down on.

So, I’m not going to retrace and link the path I went down on this, but you’re right. That language has specific intent. You have to go back through the comments from the NJ AG and some specific case law, etc…to get to the intent, but I had time to kill, so I did.

When the Victim’s Bill of Rights was introduced in NJ, that language was meant to create a space where victim’s of crimes were safe in reporting any harassment or intimidation against them. Specifically, that harassment, intimidation, etc. is supposed to be directly related to their participation in prosecuting the defendant, and has the intent to get the victim to recant, withdraw from cooperating, or otherwise hinder the prosecution.

It also is related specifically back to this statute:

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2015/title-2c/section-2c-28-5.1

The prosecution of the criminal case is over. I don’t think (and I haven’t read all the YT comments) that anyone is or ever was trying to prevent LK from cooperating with the prosecution.

I suppose someone somewhere could make a case that anonymous posters on social media, responding to someone’s very public behavior, meets that criteria, but that is just not relevant to a hearing about MB’s current mental health.

And, generally, not directed at you VirginiaHorseMom, again, this hearing is not an opportunity to retry the concluded criminal case. That is expressly prohibited. It’s also not an opportunity to preview the civil suit. It’s sole purpose is to determine the current state of MB’s mental health and what his future plans should be.

[ekat]

@MorganSercu

Bats are also cool

Bats would be awesome!

[Angela_Freda]

I’m probably muddling this and confusing it with something else, but…

So, it was my understanding that a claim of harassment or whatnot, where the contact one has with these people is via a forum (chatroom, etc) you choose to participate in and can as easily leave/ignore… Means legally you don’t have a leg to stand on because you can simply leave the conversation or ignore them…

[Maria]

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[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@Angela_Freda

And he’d be in touch with them, how?
Mental telepathy?

There seems to be an insinuation that MB is in contact with his inner circle of family/very close friends/loved ones, and then these folks are in touch with other folks in the broader dressage community… and that is why there is persistent negative commentary on social media about certain parties involved in this case.

It seems they are insinuating that this is all a deliberate strategy to intimidate and harass a victim/witness.

It’s a big dressage oriented collusion/conspiracy… all focused on one particular adult amateur, who has been INCREDIBLY vocal herself on social media over the last 3 years.

This seems to be the line of thinking/argument.

They se to be discounting the POSSIBILITY that lots of people took notice of LKs own activities on social media… and developed a negative impression of her… and began discussing some of her more colorful and controversial public posts.

If you’re referring to what I’ve posted, I haven’t insinuated anything.

Here’s what I’ve flat out said. MB is in contact with his lawyers and close personal friends such as LO. I think I specifically said that I was not asserting that he was actively using that channel to orchestrate or request the bashing of LK on SM.

I’m pointing out that a lot of harassment and abuse of LK has occurred over the last three years, and it appears that he has not attempted to convey to his “supporters” via LO or anyone else that it is his desire that LK be permitted to get on with her life.

I’m also pointing out the possibility that tearing down LK on SM may not be the best way to be supportive of MB.

[Angela_Freda]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

1). I don’t think MB or his attorney or his inner circle (LO) has any obligation to say anything about any of the social media discussion related to this case. Do you disagree?

Expecting them to comment suggests they are even aware of it, if it actually exists.