MB update

[hut-ho78]

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

He was found to have been not criminally responsible for having committed a violent act.

No. He was not. He was found NOT GUILTY. BECAUSE NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED.

Stop comparing him to Hinckley. They aren’t even close to the same, and it’s offensive.

Same verdict though.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Sdel

@CurrentlyHorseless

So then why didn’t he clearly ask her to leave July 1 with 30 days notice, fill her stalls with higher paying clients and give two clinics in the month of July?

Because he negotiated with her custodian for her to leave. He even found a whole other barn for her to go to.

Exactly. It’s a tragedy be shot her before the negotiations already underway could be completed peacefully.

You mean it’s a tragedy she was shot. No evidence that he maliciously picked up a gun to shoot her. In fact all evidence points to something else entirely: MB was jumped.

I expect this will be a point of the civil trial.

[ekat]

@hut-ho78

Same verdict though.

Different court system, different standards (ironically, Hinckley was the impetus behind changes to NGRI that made it harder to use as a defense), different diagnoses, but sure.

[smoofox]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Since he does not even claim to have asked LK to leave prior to Aug 5/6, I can believe that, as LK says, he didn’t. I can easily believe that for the month prior to the shooting, he was not acting rationally.

Sooo… you wholeheartedly will always believe what LK says no matter what… even though she testified that she lies all the time on social media - and likely everywhere else as well - including on the stand.
Not a great hill to die on.

So your stance is that as things got more tense there was never a mention of LK needing to leave… well then what prompted JK’s attempts to find her a place to go to? Why was LK blathering all over FB about needing to move her horses and getting lots of offers/suggestions? She had no intentions of moving as she thought she was playing 5D chess and would prevail… but yes, leaving was obviously in the conversations.

God knows when we were dealing with our own version of LK, leaving was a constant refrain. That trainer was providing far more income to our barn than LK was proving to MB’s - and we do not have fancy high-end Olympic trainer level dressage rates - not even close! But the $$$$$ coming in did not matter compared to the toxic atmosphere.

LK was not keeping MB’s place afloat - and the toxic atmosphere she created (and reveled in) was not worth keeping her there.

@ekat

You can continue to ignore the fact that he had a lawyer negotiating her exit in July, but it doesn’t change the fact that it was happening. LK knew she had to leave. She posted stuff saying she was going to go on her terms.

And then her terms drove Michael to snap.

I’m not even going to try to explain to you AGAIN, that a written notice would have done as much good on July 1st as it did on Aug 5th, based on the evidence of LK’s actions. You can keep clinging to the fantasy that a piece of paper would have made her move. It wouldn’t. It DIDN’T. It just made everything worse. Look at her actions on Aug 5th alone after she received the notice. She wasn’t going anywhere. It’s what she did and didn’t do.

Well said.

[MorganSercu]

John Hinckley was booked on federal charges of attempting to assassinate the president. He had previously been arrested in Tennessee on weapons charges.

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/31/us/suspect-was-arrested-last-year-in-nashville-on-weapons-charge.html

Federal charges are far different than state charges.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1982/06/22/hinckley-found-not-guilty-insane/939fafa6-9441-4579-bb04-39da0d287e2d/

United States v. Hinckley, 525 F. Supp. 1342 (D.D.C. 1981)

Interesting stuff re: Hinckley. I was very young when all of this went down and I doubt I was aware of his ties to White supremacy at the time. Not surprised though.

And, of course, I am not associating Michael Barisone with racist scum.

Contemporary newspapers accounts covering the trial are able to provide a seemingly simple answer to this discrepancy: Hinckley Jr. made the group up and claimed himself as its leader as part of his delusions.

At the time, this seemed a reasonable explanation for an unreasonable man’s behavior, but lingering questions remain. The typical timeline provided by newspapers and books about the assassination attempt and trial are mostly consistent on statements that Hinckley bought his first gun in August 1979 and then created the imaginary American Front in September 1979.

However, Hinckley Sr.’s statement to the FBI was clear about Hinckley Jr.’s letter coming in “early 1979” and saying that he had become “associated” with the group. A statement from Mrs. Hinckley confirmed Hinckley Sr.’s timeline, and only a single UPI article seems to put Hinckley’s apparent creation of this group before his letter to his parents, in the preceding fall. This discrepancy has yet to be explained.

A look at both of the statements made by Hinckley Jr.’s psychiatrist in the news and the references to his statements in the transcript of the trial’s closing statements shows that this allegedly imaginary connection to the American Front was a major factor in determining he was insane. After all, claiming to be the leader of an imaginary neo-Nazi group is a rather insane thing to do.

According to the closing arguments, and echoed in several newspapers, Hinckley Jr. had produced extensive and fictitious membership lists in addition to producing a newsletter for the group. The defense tried to emphasize this as part of the insanity defense, while the prosecution apparently didn’t find it bizarre.

Although his father was apparently unaware of it, Hinckley Jr. had actually joined several real Nazi groups including the National Socialist Party of America. He marched in a rally for the latter, dressed in a Nazi uniform. Ultimately, the groups apparently turned him away for being too violent (according to both the Nazi groups and Hinckley’s notes). This is, however, at odds with statements Hinckley’s psychiatrist made, including that Hinckley saw the “American Front as standing somewhere between conservative Republicanism and the Nazis.”

The discrepancies in the timeline, the discrepancies in the description of the allegedly fictitious group, and the group’s later emergence as real all raise a number of interesting questions. Given his real ties to Nazi groups and individuals, were none of the members of his group real? The investigation was closed and the trial over before the earliest estimate of the emergence of the legitimate American Front, as a spin-off of the National Front in the UK, which means that there was never an investigation into whether the name was a coincidence or a connection.

[smoofox]

@eggbutt

Recently added to the Tech Support thread! Wow! Talk about a stretch!!! Contrary to some beliefs, Barisone threads aren’t the bread and butter of these forums!

Not only are the MB threads not the be all and end all on the COTH forum to 99.9999% of the posters here (or to COTH itself), this forum is extremely small potatoes compared to other discussion places on the internet… and not the juggernaut some are trying to present it as being.

The Dressage forum is not even the busiest and ranks behind Hunter/Jumper, Horse Care, Off Course, Off Topic…

And what a sad, pathetic, desperate direction this conversation has taken when MB is now being compared to John Hinckley and it is suggested that he should be treated in the same way…

Wow.

Unbelievable.

[ekat]

John Hinckley post conviction: continued to have suicidal ideations, continued to write obsessive letters to Jodie Foster, hid pics of her in his room, corresponded with Ted Bundy, attempted to contact Charles Manson, etc…

Michael Barisone: we have a squirrel and a butterfly so far.

[Knights_Mom]

There is a correlation though. Jodie Foster once made a movie that mentioned butterflies.

[ekat]

Hahaha! True!!

[Bogey2]

A lot of people who run training facilities are NEVER good at doing what has to be done when there is an obnoxious person in the mix. I run my own barn yet have a lot of interaction with other owners/trainers in the business. They never did anything but horses, I did. I came from a management background and know if I keep a toxic person around it will cost me some good clients. I have asked people to leave and I have not let certain people back in or in as a boarder. Not worth my own sanity or those who are great clients. I actually counsel some of my friends on how to do this in their own business when they come to me complaining. I’ve dealt with disruptive people in my business and the companies I have worked for. If you don’t take care or the problem the good people leave. Maybe MGH was able to see that and has a stronger backbone than MB.

[eggbutt]

@Davignport

For the love of all that is holy, everyone please STOP replying to CH. There is no reason to keep going around and around with this person. Since they will not give it a rest, we all need to.

Yes, the majority of us agree with you, yet, their ramblings about ridiculous subjects and redundancy may be interesting to the legal teams regarding what tangents to expect and prepare for in the civil trials. All of these particular posters have said repeatedly they have no connection to any of the involved parties. For me that is what is so confounding about their posts - why keep beating the perverbial dead horses with the repeated topics: Barisone had a cash flow issue; Barisone was apparently known to be mentally ill by all; LK was never asked to leave; Barisone had the gun and used it; LK has zero responsibility for anything that occurred; etc. What is their purpose with their posts if not to provoke and irritate? They can offer no proof to their line in the sand statements other than “just cause”.

Strange isn’t it?

[Knights_Mom]

For sure we know of at least one person who was looking to leave because of LK.

[eggbutt]

Perhaps RG picked up the habit of recording everything to protect himself long before he became involved with Barisone. He may have learned to serreptiously record everything involving LK through the years for whatever reason.

[ekat]

@eggbutt

Perhaps RG picked up the habit of recording everything to protect himself long before he became involved with Barisone. He may have learned to serreptiously everything involving LK through the years for whatever reason.

Well that is an interesting thought for sure!

[Knights_Mom]

@eggbutt

Perhaps RG picked up the habit of recording everything to protect himself long before he became involved with Barisone. He may have learned to serreptiously everything involving LK through the years for whatever reason.

You mean like getting shot at?

[trubandloki]

@eggbutt

Perhaps RG picked up the habit of recording everything to protect himself long before he became involved with Barisone. He may have learned to serreptiously everything involving LK through the years for whatever reason.

Another good point!
When you live with someone who lies excessively I can totally see why you would want to document things in case something came back and was blamed on you.

[MorganSercu]

@Bogey2

A lot of people who run training facilities are NEVER good at doing what has to be done when there is an obnoxious person in the mix.

Ever seen Lenny Henry’s show “Chef!”? Season 1, episode 1 - where Lucinda ends up sacking Gregory because Gareth loses his nerve.

[MorganSercu]

Right? The differences are stark.

May the hearing be soon so a bed that is desperately needed by someone else can be filled when Michael Barisone is released.

[MHM]

@Knights_Mom

LK on the other hand will have woken up from an afternoon nap to argue with random posters on YouTube 9 months after they post about how unbelievable her testimony was and how Not Guilty MB was.

Probably more like nine years.

[ekat]

Note to self: watch Chef