MB update

[KurPlexed]

@ekat

They had to establish the elements of the charge beyond a reasonable doubt

Thank you for the reply. So "establish elements of the charge " could simply be that LK was shot. Period.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@BigMama1

@CurrentlyHorseless

That there’s no evidence that MB actually asked her to leave prior to Aug 5?

This point alone has been proven wrong over and over and over again. Dozens of people have taken the time to explain how and why. So why do you cling to this false narrative?

Maybe CH is still struggling to understand why everyone at Hawthorne Hill in the summer of 2019 considered LK toxic?

It seems like CH is struggling now to accept that the vast majority of the equestrian community all consider the woman pathological and bad news, post verdict. I certainly do. I waited for the trial, and listened to testimony and learned about the evidence presented before forming my opinion. But… once I watched LK testify… myself and hundreds of other people on YouTube ALL had an overwhelmingly negative opinion of the woman.

I believe CH is an Amber Heard supporter as well. Maybe CH is just a very empathetic person who sees the good in people like LK and Amber Heard.

[MorganSercu]

So - this would mean there is a signed contract and monies accounted for when hiring that attorney - right? He didn’t do the work for free, I would guess. Or maybe he did the work for Michael to help get LK out because they (Tarshis & Barisone) were friends. But clearly he did WORK to get LK off the property.

[ekat]

Yep.

Now, if Mr Deininger gets to explore the timeline in a way Judge T did not allow Mr B, we just may get some very different information and testimony.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Sdel

@CurrentlyHorseless

I’ve stated that I intensely dislike using SM to trash and torment people, and that goes for LKs SM behavior as well as the behavior that dominates the “Barisone threads”.

But not enough to answer multiple direct questions about why you don’t make the same fuss over RG or have actually had a direct conversation with LK about her nastygrams.

I’ve stated publicly on the forum my intense dislike of bashing and tormenting people of SM, and said that holds if the source is LK or someone else.

I’ve said what I voluntarily want to say regarding RG, including that he had every right to use the force necessary to subdue MB as an active shooter. I assumed the prodding to “explain why I don’t make the same fuss over RG” was just intended to annoy and harass, and declined to respond to the prodding.

I stated, in response to questioning from @Virginia_Horse_Mom, that while I strongly faulted LK for some of her SM exchanges, I did not myself “have a direct conversation” about SM with LK. So what?

[ekat]

@MorganSercu

So - this would mean there is a signed contract and monies accounted for when hiring that attorney - right? He didn’t do the work for free, I would guess.

I would guess he didn’t work for free. I would surmise there’s a retainer agreement. ED testified that he was contacted by dad on the 5th, and met LK with dad on the 6th. Presumably that’s when retainer signing would happen.

Maybe will get to hear good ole RG’s recording in the civil trial! (RG, who ED didn’t represent, nor did ED remember was even at the meeting).

[KurPlexed]

Thank you. I guess I never realized that they just had to prove “elements of the charge”. That explains a bit more (to me, who has very little knowledge of th court system)

[cutter99]

@BigMama1

@CurrentlyHorseless

That there’s no evidence that MB actually asked her to leave prior to Aug 5?

This point alone has been proven wrong over and over and over again. Dozens of people have taken the time to explain how and why. So why do you cling to this false narrative?

Because she has nothing else to cling to!

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@BigMama1

@CurrentlyHorseless

That there’s no evidence that MB actually asked her to leave prior to Aug 5?

This point alone has been proven wrong over and over and over again. Dozens of people have taken the time to explain how and why. So why do you cling to this false narrative?

Because I don’t think it’s “a false narrative.”

What is the actual evidence that he asked her to leave prior to Aug 5?

[Wilbury_Pie]

I think that an empathetic person would see possibilities on both sides. I do feel awful about LK getting shot. It’s just not clear to me, even after the trial, who actually shot her.

Sorry, I replied to wrong post,it was an earlier one about empathy. My apologies, I can’t delete this…

[ekat]

@KurPlexed

Thank you. I guess I never realized that they just had to prove “elements of the charge”. That explains a bit more (to me, who has very little knowledge of th court system)

I’m attaching NJ’s jury instructions on attempted murder. You’ll see that the verdict is evidence the jury believed the state failed right from the top to prove the defendant “ Purposely engaged in conduct which was intended to cause the death of the victim.” NGRI means Michael didn’t purposely do anything like that. NGRI = no intent. No “purposeful” act.

Edit: forgot to attach.

homicide1.pdf

[cutter99]

@Wilbury_Pie

I think that an empathetic person would see possibilities on both sides. I do feel awful about LK getting shot. It’s just not clear to me, even after the trial, who actually shot her.

Funny how many of us who watched the trial came to the same conclusion. I walked away knowing that it was never proven during the trial that Michael had a gun in his hands that day. Not one piece of evidence proved that! Not one single piece of evidence!

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@BigMama1

@CurrentlyHorseless

That there’s no evidence that MB actually asked her to leave prior to Aug 5?

This point alone has been proven wrong over and over and over again. Dozens of people have taken the time to explain how and why. So why do you cling to this false narrative?

Maybe CH is still struggling to understand why everyone at Hawthorne Hill in the summer of 2019 considered LK toxic?

It seems like CH is struggling now to accept that the vast majority of the equestrian community all consider the woman pathological and bad news, post verdict. I certainly do. I waited for the trial, and listened to testimony and learned about the evidence presented before forming my opinion. But… once I watched LK testify… myself and hundreds of other people on YouTube ALL had an overwhelmingly negative opinion of the woman.

I believe CH is an Amber Heard supporter as well. Maybe CH is just a very empathetic person who sees the good in people like LK and Amber Heard.

I am not an Amber Heard supporter.

I am an empathetic person, and dislike the bashing and tormenting of a gunshot victim. Even if the gunshot victim is a flawed person with baggage.

[Wilbury_Pie]

Even if it’s not clear who shot her ?

[cutter99]

@Wilbury_Pie

Even if it’s not clear who shot her ?

BINGO!!!

@Wilbury_Pie wins the Interwebz today!

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Wilbury_Pie

I think that an empathetic person would see possibilities on both sides. I do feel awful about LK getting shot. It’s just not clear to me, even after the trial, who actually shot her.

Sorry, I replied to wrong post,it was an earlier one about empathy. My apologies, I can’t delete this…

Well - I completely agree with you.

There doesn’t seem to be much empathy extended to MB or MHG by certain posters though. It’s interesting.

At this point, the thing that I most feel empathy for LK about? How HUMILIATING this all must be for her. There is no other word for it. She’s been so utterly rejected by the entire dressage community. It just seems like emotionally self destructive madness for her to continue on at a dressage barn in Loxahatchee. Maybe selling the house, and moving to a different part of the state, meeting new people, and taking up riding western or something would be healthier for her.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I am not an Amber Heard supporter.

I am an empathetic person, and dislike the bashing and tormenting of a gunshot victim. Even if the gunshot victim is a flawed person with baggage.

What turned you off about Amber Heard? Did you watch much of that trial? Not find her a credible witness?

Bluntly, I thought AH came off as a narcissist and a liar. BUT… I am admittedly prone to concluding that about certain people…

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I am not an Amber Heard supporter.

I am an empathetic person, and dislike the bashing and tormenting of a gunshot victim. Even if the gunshot victim is a flawed person with baggage.

Second question for you about AH.

You admit you aren’t a supporter of hers.

Do you think it’s accurate to describe her as a “domestic violence victim” ?

[MorganSercu]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

and taking up riding western

What makes you think she would behave any differently towards people in a different venue? She’s 41 and it’s hard to overturn the habits of decades.

[hut-ho78]

@ekat

@hut-ho78

Because of Hinckley, Guilty but Insane came into vogue which allowed jail but also mandated treatment.

Maybe, but that’s not what I was referring to. More importantly, inspired by Hinckley the Insanity Act of 1984 redefined the definition of the defense, shifted the burden of proof to the defendant instead of making the prosecution prove the defendant was sabe, and eliminated the expert’s ability to testify regarding the specific elements of the crime, like they did in the Hinckley trial. This, of course, is all pertinent to Federal crimes, although some of the elements have trickled down to state courts/laws, such as the burden of proof to establish insanity belonging to the defendant.

Bottom line, it’s not really comparable to Michael Barisone’s situation.

Well. Perhaps. NGRI seems fairly rare so it seems that NGRI would almost have to be looked at in regards to the others. For example, Hinckley’s 30 years of institution commitment before being deemed no longer a danger to himself of others.

Looking at it another way, a actual acquittal would be LK’s arrests with no conviction and no determination any act she was ever arrested for was ever committed whereas in MB’s case, he actually committed the act and at that moment was a danger to himself or others, it just wasn’t a crime because he was delusional at the time, hence the administrative involuntary commitment to AK for a Krol evaluation with the potential for further commitment, conditional release or full release.