MB update

[eggbutt]

@ekat

(RG, who ED didn’t represent, nor did ED remember was even at the meeting).

Yeah, good old ED…he thought the shooting was FOUR YEARS AGO! Dude really prepped for the witness stand, didn’t he?

[Wilbury_Pie]

Well, Western riders I know are a little more direct that the English crowd. In a very good way.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Wilbury_Pie

Even if it’s not clear who shot her ?

As I’ve said many times, it’s clear even to a non lawyer that, based on the judge’s instructions to the jury, the fact that the jury skipped over straight NG and had to choose between NGRI or Guilty depending on whether the defense, did or did not, establish the claim of insanity, indicates that the jury, as fact finders, determined, beyond a reasonable doubt, that “he shot her”. Given the finding of insanity, the shooting was not a criminal act because there was no intent.

It is not established to an absolute certainty that “he shot her”. But it was established to the standard of “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

If the issue of whether “be shot her” is relitigated in the civil trial, the standard of proof will be the much lower standard of “by a preponderance of the evidence”. That’s one factor explaining why OJ was found liable of wrongful death in the civil trial, but found Not Guilty in the criminal trial.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Sdel

@CurrentlyHorseless

I’ve stated that I intensely dislike using SM to trash and torment people, and that goes for LKs SM behavior as well as the behavior that dominates the “Barisone threads”.

But not enough to answer multiple direct questions about why you don’t make the same fuss over RG or have actually had a direct conversation with LK about her nastygrams.

I’ve stated publicly on the forum my intense dislike of bashing and tormenting people of SM, and said that holds if the source is LK or someone else.

I’ve said what I voluntarily want to say regarding RG, including that he had every right to use the force necessary to subdue MB as an active shooter. I assumed the prodding to “explain why I don’t make the same fuss over RG” was just intended to annoy and harass, and declined to respond to the prodding.

I stated, in response to questioning from @Virginia_Horse_Mom, that while I strongly faulted LK for some of her SM exchanges, I did not myself “have a direct conversation” about SM with LK. So what?

My question to you is why you so vehemently cling to the notion that MB was an “active shooter” when the ONLY evidence showing that is the word of 2 drug addicts, one of whom admits lying and lied on the stand and along with her paramour were thoroughly discredited in court?

[KurPlexed]

Again, thank you! That was very informative. Especially these 2 items.

[MorganSercu]

I think LK would regard that as a challenge to her standing and would redouble her efforts (that led to the “direct” conversation or comment). Again, 41 (middle-aged) and set in her ways.

[Wilbury_Pie]

Not clear who shot her. Full stop.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

I am not an Amber Heard supporter.

I am an empathetic person, and dislike the bashing and tormenting of a gunshot victim. Even if the gunshot victim is a flawed person with baggage.

What turned you off about Amber Heard? Did you watch much of that trial? Not find her a credible witness?

Bluntly, I thought AH came off as a narcissist and a liar. BUT… I am admittedly prone to concluding that about certain people…

I did not watch the trial, only read about it in the news.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@MorganSercu

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

and taking up riding western

What makes you think she would behave any differently towards people in a different venue? She’s 41 and it’s hard to overturn the habits of decades.

Oh I’m sure she would get into more conflict.

But honestly… her attempts to continue on with dressage? I don’t see how it’s possible for her to continue in any meaningful way over the long term. Especially once he is released, and if the civil suit doesn’t go her way. People will inevitably get more bold about giving her the COLD shoulder if he is vindicated to a greater extent as this whole legal situation continues to play out

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@BigMama1

@CurrentlyHorseless

That there’s no evidence that MB actually asked her to leave prior to Aug 5?

This point alone has been proven wrong over and over and over again. Dozens of people have taken the time to explain how and why. So why do you cling to this false narrative?

Because I don’t think it’s “a false narrative.”

What is the actual evidence that he asked her to leave prior to Aug 5?

Her father was negotiating an exit strategy with MBs attorney.

In normal boarding situations when a boarder wants to leave a facility they give 30 days notice and then they just GO. There is no need for attorneys. This is prima facie evidence she was asked to leave.

Any other claim by you is at the very least, disingenuous.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Sdel

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Sdel

@CurrentlyHorseless

That there was no literal “paper trail”? Paper checks, to the extent they’re used at all, are usually scanned and destroyed.

LK was asked to provide documents of rent payments in her first set of interrogatories. Her answer seemed to be unsure that there were documents to provide….

“maybe her dad had cancelled checks”…

She answered that “maybe her dad had cancelled checks”? I seriously doubt he would have literal, old fashioned, canceled paper checks. He would undoubtedly have electronic records of the payments, or could get them from the bank. Likewise, MB would have, or could obtain, electronic records of having received payment.

Then surely the interrogatory response would have indicated such records. That was the specific question being asked: what evidence do you have that you were a legal, paying tenant. We are talking about discovery in the civil trial that had to be compelled to get LK to answer.

Are you suggesting that LK was lying or being evasive under oath?

Re bolded. No, I’m not suggesting that.

[cutter99]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

I am not an Amber Heard supporter.

I am an empathetic person, and dislike the bashing and tormenting of a gunshot victim. Even if the gunshot victim is a flawed person with baggage.

What turned you off about Amber Heard? Did you watch much of that trial? Not find her a credible witness?

Bluntly, I thought AH came off as a narcissist and a liar. BUT… I am admittedly prone to concluding that about certain people…

I did not watch the trial, only read about it in the news.

So you couldn’t be bothered to watch the trial, but you can be bothered to post nonsensically about how LK is right???

Okay, thanks for playing along!

[hut-ho78]

@Knights_Mom

This article is VERY interesting as it documents Suboxone users telling of extreme violent thoughts and feelings.

https://www.narconon.org/blog/drug-addiction/dangerous-side-effects-connected-with-suboxone/

And yet she shot no one and is actually the shooting victim.

[eggbutt]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I am an empathetic person, and dislike the bashing and tormenting of a gunshot victim. Even if the gunshot victim is a flawed person with baggage.

This is profoundly warped. Barisone was tormented, bashed, harassed, threatened, spied on, falsely reported to SS/CPS, driven to a complete mental break, but YOU have empathy for the persons responsible for those actions. Simply amazing. Lord, I truly hope you never encounter this woman in real life and get on the wrong side of one of her personalities.

[Knights_Mom]

@hut-ho78

@ekat

@hut-ho78

Because of Hinckley, Guilty but Insane came into vogue which allowed jail but also mandated treatment.

Maybe, but that’s not what I was referring to. More importantly, inspired by Hinckley the Insanity Act of 1984 redefined the definition of the defense, shifted the burden of proof to the defendant instead of making the prosecution prove the defendant was sabe, and eliminated the expert’s ability to testify regarding the specific elements of the crime, like they did in the Hinckley trial. This, of course, is all pertinent to Federal crimes, although some of the elements have trickled down to state courts/laws, such as the burden of proof to establish insanity belonging to the defendant.

Bottom line, it’s not really comparable to Michael Barisone’s situation.

Well. Perhaps. NGRI seems fairly rare so it seems that NGRI would almost have to be looked at in regards to the others. For example, Hinckley’s 30 years of institution commitment before being deemed no longer a danger to himself of others.

Looking at it another way, a actual acquittal would be LK’s arrests with no conviction and no determination any act she was ever arrested for was ever committed whereas in MB’s case, he actually committed the act and at that moment was a danger to himself or others, it just wasn’t a crime because he was delusional at the time, hence the administrative involuntary commitment to AK for a Krol evaluation with the potential for further commitment, conditional release or full release.

Nice try but no.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Wilbury_Pie

Even if it’s not clear who shot her ?

As I’ve said many times, it’s clear even to a non lawyer that, based on the judge’s instructions to the jury, the fact that the jury skipped over straight NG and had to choose between NGRI or Guilty depending on whether the defense, did or did not, establish the claim of insanity, indicates that the jury, as fact finders, determined, beyond a reasonable doubt, that “he shot her”. Given the finding of insanity, the shooting was not a criminal act because there was no intent.

It is not established to an absolute certainty that “he shot her”. But it was established to the standard of “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

If the issue of whether “be shot her” is relitigated in the civil trial, the standard of proof will be the much lower standard of “by a preponderance of the evidence”. That’s one factor explaining why OJ was found liable of wrongful death in the civil trial, but found Not Guilty in the criminal trial.

QFP and framing.

[Sdel]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Sdel

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Sdel

@CurrentlyHorseless

That there was no literal “paper trail”? Paper checks, to the extent they’re used at all, are usually scanned and destroyed.

LK was asked to provide documents of rent payments in her first set of interrogatories. Her answer seemed to be unsure that there were documents to provide….

“maybe her dad had cancelled checks”…

She answered that “maybe her dad had cancelled checks”? I seriously doubt he would have literal, old fashioned, canceled paper checks. He would undoubtedly have electronic records of the payments, or could get them from the bank. Likewise, MB would have, or could obtain, electronic records of having received payment.

Then surely the interrogatory response would have indicated such records. That was the specific question being asked: what evidence do you have that you were a legal, paying tenant. We are talking about discovery in the civil trial that had to be compelled to get LK to answer.

Are you suggesting that LK was lying or being evasive under oath?

Re bolded. No, I’m not suggesting that.

Then why are you asserting that she didn’t mean what she said?

[KurPlexed]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Even if the gunshot victim is a flawed person with baggage

Flawed? Baggage? Everyone,
knows its not just baggage and flawed. Can you admit that too?

@CurrentlyHorseless

It is not established to an absolute certainty that “he shot her”. But it was established to the standard of “beyond a reasonable doubt

Eta they MUST Not Have proved that beyond a reasonable doubt or he would have been found guilty

[cutter99]

@hut-ho78

@Knights_Mom

This article is VERY interesting as it documents Suboxone users telling of extreme violent thoughts and feelings.

https://www.narconon.org/blog/drug-addiction/dangerous-side-effects-connected-with-suboxone/

And yet she shot no one and is actually the shooting victim.

In your world.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Knights_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

@BigMama1

@CurrentlyHorseless

That there’s no evidence that MB actually asked her to leave prior to Aug 5?

This point alone has been proven wrong over and over and over again. Dozens of people have taken the time to explain how and why. So why do you cling to this false narrative?

Because I don’t think it’s “a false narrative.”

What is the actual evidence that he asked her to leave prior to Aug 5?

Her father was negotiating an exit strategy with MBs attorney.

In normal boarding situations when a boarder wants to leave a facility they give 30 days notice and then they just GO. There is no need for attorneys. This is prima facie evidence she was asked to leave.

Any other claim by you is at the very least, disingenuous.

If her father was negotiating the terms of her exit, it’s evidence that she was in the process of leaving.

She may have decided to leave for all the reasons you (g) keep talking about. MHG hated her; she was being shunted to the assistant trainer, she understood MB would need to prioritize his girlfriend over a client.