My exact sentence is this (typo included)
Since I have repeatedly said none of us knows what the jury was thinking, other than they didn’t buy the charges against RG how am I calling myself disingenuous?
Is there something I am not making clear, or are you just trying to pick a fight? Because if it’s the later, I concede. You win.
I think that after all these posts, we’re finally converging.
Since neither you nor any of the posters here were members of the jury, the jury’s verdict does not reflect that lots of posters here “do not believe beyond a reasonable doubt that MB shot anyone”.
No, the two NGRI verdicts are not “proof” that MB shot anyone. Verdicts are rendered according to a specified standard, in this case “proven beyond a reasonable doubt”. In the civil case, the standard is the lower one of “by a preponderance of the evidence”. In no case is the standard “absolute proof”.
Assuming the jury acted correctly, did not make a mistake, and understood the jury instructions, their verdict of NGRI indicates that as finders of fact, the jury determined that the prosecutor met the relevant standard of proof wrt all elements of his case except for intent. In short, that “he shot her”.
Apparently if the jury had been drawn randomly from the posters on this thread, the verdict would have been straight Not Guilty on all counts.
Well, no, perhaps that’s not what a rational, non delusional would be murderer would do.
Only if bullets were weightless…
Oh, this is interesting. I wonder why she deleted that amazing post.
I have chickens not geese, don’t geese become poultry zombies at night like chickens do?
Is reading English not your primary language? I ask because I can not even slightly figure out how you got this response out of what was said.
Some of the latest one went on about how much more physical damage RG could have done to MB than was already done. The tone was that he should be grateful they allowed him to be dealt with by the police.
Yes, and her weirdly satisfied verbal smirk about him having to be in jail the last three years even though found NGRI is disturbing too.
She sure doesn’t fit the usual profile of someone afraid, I’ll say that. Someone mad about what happened and out for revenge? You betcha she sounds like that.
She talks a lot like some people I represented in ANE cases years ago. Gives me the shivers.
Completely agree.
[quote=“CurrentlyHorseless, post:3534, topic:774547”]
Well… you ask a REALLY interesting question. And a hard one.
I will admit that my personal pet theory has been heavily influenced by looking at the full scope of RG and LKs lifetime arrest records. Both of them have repeated arrests for assault.
But the jury at the criminal trial was not privy to that information. Understandably so. I am not sure what information will be allowed into evidence during the civil trial. Nor am I sure how deeply both sets of attorneys will be allowed to probe and wander during the depositions of key individuals (MB, RG, and LK).
Anyway… back to the criminal trial. If I sincerely believed in my pet theory… even with the limited evidence offered and not knowing anything about RGs lengthy arrest records… I would have been strongly inclined to dig in my heels and fight for a straight NG on all charges longer. But the risk involved is that it will all end in a hung jury, and then MB would be retried, and a new jury might find him guilty across the board. And that risk would definitely weigh on me.
I think part of it for me in that situation might come down to how split the total jury was. If I was the only person holding out for straight NG, while everyone else wanted to vote NGRI on the LK charges, and NG on the RG charges… that would weigh on me. A lot
Re bolded.
You’re saying that we know that the “jury didn’t buy the charges against RG” because of the straight NG charge on those two counts.
But at the same time you’re trying to claim that we don’t “know what the jury was thinking” when they declined to find straight NG on the charges wrt LK. That’s disingenuous.
Noted.
So what. It really does not matter how a jury got to it’s deicision, they are allowed to come to whatever decision they want, however they want, and nothing can revoke that right, even if they didn’t use the “jury instructions”….
Considering the straight NG on RG’s charges, it’s clearly nullification. They simply were not going to reward LK and RG by sending Michael to jail.
I just want to compliment both @ekat and @Virginia_Horse_Mom for terrific analytic posts that express a lot of my views without getting into the weeds.
Thank you both for your contributions to this thread.
I don’t think that is what she is agreeing too.
I think she is saying that LK has basically sequestered herself in her home and has very little if any contact with anyone other than RG. I guess she does go to the barn very early and rides.
Anyone want to help me write that reading for comprehension book?
[quote=“Virginia_Horse_Mom, post:3561, topic:774547, full:true”]
OK. If you were not swayed by the deliberations to genuinely endorse a verdict of NGRI, because you were not persuaded that “he shot her”, correct behavior would require you to hold out until unanimity was reached or a hung jury declared.
If the hung jury required a new trial, that’s the law, even though it puts the defendant at risk of straight guilty. It is not correct behavior for a juror to misrepresent their true finding of fact on the grounds that they’ve made a calculation of “I’m not convinced (beyond a reasonable doubt) that he shot her, but perhaps it’s in his best interest to compromise on NGRI to avoid a second trial and the risk of a Guilty verdict”.
The jury is supposed to be an impartial finder of fact and not misrepresent their assessment of the facts by calculating the risks of a future trial for the defendant. You’re admitting that if you had served on the jury, you might have made your decisions in part based on what you viewed as being in the defendant’s interests rather than on your assessment of the facts alone.
Re: maximum security psychiatric hospital
Is that opposed to say, a minimum security psychiatric hospital?
In a minimum security psych hospital, do we give the “not as suicidal” patients slightly sharper scissors than say the “super suicidal” patients who do not get scissors at all?
Assuming there is a maximum security psych hospital, what is the medium security hospital like?
I’ll give LK credit for one thing, I’ve never seen someone author such long winded works that have absolutely no substance. The “wait and see”s and the “patient dear”s and the “maximum security psych ward,” it’s all verbal fluff. Meaningless garbage designed to create drama and substance that just doesn’t exist. I have to laugh at the constant “puffing” and bolstering because otherwise it’s just so sad. LK lacks a fundamental understanding and insight to so many elementary things. I think it’s sad that people encourage her delusions and defend her behavior. Rid her of any responsibility. It does her no favors. None at all.
I disagree. The jury is not allowed by law to find someone “not guilty” just because they find the defendant charming and attractive and the gunshot victim unlikable.
I agree with the jury’s verdict of NG with respect to RG. There was not enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that MB aimed the gun at him and fired the gun. The fact that the evidence on the charges wrt RG was much less strong than the evidence wrt LK was even foreshadowed by the offered plea deal of pleading guilty to only two charges rather than four.
Michael was not sent to prison because the defense prevailed on the assertion of insanity.
I actually wonder if LK is even riding anymore. If her rants on YT are as manic as some have said, I wonder if she is sleeping, eating, etc or has she succumbed to the medications she’s on? The dramatic change in her appearance since the NYT photos would be cause for concern if she was one of my family members. I don’t know and really don’t care as long as she leaves others alone IRL. She can rant as much as makes her happy on SM and delete the rants when she’s of clearer mind set - she only hurts herself and others’ opinions of her. I wonder if she ever reflects with “what if” questions of herself? Karma is interesting.
Bolded = mine
I had to google that one.
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