MB update

[SierraMist]

@ekat

I think it’s important to note, though, that MB hasn’t actually been committed yet. He’s being held pending evaluation to determine if he should be.

I find this an odd statement in that Judge Taylor stated in the verdict video, at around 10:20, “…Mr. Barisone will now be civilly committed…”

I don’t understand why so many people are in such a hurry for MB to be released. According to the defense experts, he has had 40 some years of mental illness that culminated in the act which landed him where he is today. Over all those years, he obviously did not get the psychiatric support he needed to prevent a psychotic break down. Having friends who highly regard him did not help him. Indeed, a friend who is a psychiatric therapist provided him with a weapon. His friends saw him delusional and balled up in a fetal position and did not seek immediate help for him.

He is now getting the help he needs, is in a safe environment to protect him in his fragile emotional state. Getting some pills and a couple months of therapy surely isn’t enough to expect him to be all better and ready to go back into handling all the stresses of a normal life. I would think he needs the tools to handle stress and you can’t cram that into 2 or 3 months after a lifetime of issues. He successfully hid the extent of his mental issues from many people all his life.

And it appears from the continued threads here that many people want him to get out and continue his “war” with LK and her family. That doesn’t seem very supportive.

[smoofox]

@eggbutt

How amazing to consider it is apparent some believe the CoTH Forums are the center of the social media universe. This small, yet awesome chat platform can’t carry a candle to the monster chats on YouTube, but here we are.

I do laugh out loud at how some insist this VERY minor, very small forum is somehow the center of SM and carry on as if every thread here is an enormous evil that is being discussed all over the world. It isn’t.

The only “leader” Out There who needs to lay off prolonging harassment of LK on SM - is LK herself. That is more than obvious from the long rages and rants on Youtube - as recent as yesterday. Yeah, I looked. No, I did not respond. Perhaps certain posters should check out those YouTube comments - and see that the sad truth is that LK is just continuing on her rather gleeful crusade of messing up her own case… with little to no concern about the effects of her words and accusations. She “blackballs” herself and makes herself an undesirable boarder and student. She has no one to blame for that but… one more time, louder for those in the back… HERSELF. This is very sad…

@DownYonder

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

The attorneys I know would have been on the phone with their clients MONTHS ago telling them that this continued online behavior is a BAD idea,

Except that sometimes clients ignore all the good advice they are given because they are so convinced of their own superiority they think they don’t have to take advice from anyone else.

Sadly, I think this is the case with LK.

@LilRanger

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

And in the long comment, there are claims that everyone present in the courtroom in the lead up to the trial (judge, attorneys for both sides) were all well aware MB was very composed and coherent, and it was obvious to everyone involved that he completely played up his mental distress during the trial because of the cameras that were on him…

You know, this would be lot more compelling had the jury not also been present in the courtroom.

Yeah - the presence of the jury and their ability to watch MB all through the trial kinda messes up that particular theory/conspiracy…

I hope MB continues to move forward and all the technicalities get worked out so he can get on with rebuilding a life that will never be the same again…

[trubandloki]

@SierraMist

he has had 40 some years of mental illness that culminated in the act which landed him where he is today.

Or you could look at this another way. For 40 years he did an amazing job handling his mental illness which is obvious by his success on so many fronts and a long list of people who can attest to his stability. It was not until someone came along who worked diligently to intentionally cause him a breakdown that he had a problem. (Note that someone admits that was their goal and that they did this.)

[Maria]

@SierraMist

And it appears from the continued threads here that many people want him to get out and continue his “war” with LK and her family. That doesn’t seem very supportive.

His war???

[Joanne]

@SierraMist

And it appears from the continued threads here that many people want him to get out and continue his “war” with LK and her family.

Raise your hand if you feel this statement is true.

[Warmblood1]

@eggbutt

I would like to know if he is receiving any sort of treatment or counseling at AK or is he simply being detained until whatever? Could Simring and or Michael’s long time therapists be speaking with him either in person or on the phone? If nothing is being done for his mental health, what a true waste of time for his healing and progress.

Ann Klein does provide treatment. I doubt he is speaking to his previous doctors because he is under the care of Ann Klein’s staff. It would be unusual.

As far as hair cuts - every facility is different but likely no. I would assume only if it’s a hygienic issue. That’s how they treat shaving - it can be permitted but would be directly supervised. They generally don’t have barbers though.

[trubandloki]

@Warmblood1

They generally don’t have barbers though.

So wait. If someone is committed there for years they are never allowed to get their hair cut? That is just crazy and inhumane.

[Warmblood1]

If it becomes a hygienic issue then that is different. But the priority is not having a nice haircut.

[Knights_Mom]

@SierraMist

@ekat

I think it’s important to note, though, that MB hasn’t actually been committed yet. He’s being held pending evaluation to determine if he should be.

I find this an odd statement in that Judge Taylor stated in the verdict video, at around 10:20, “…Mr. Barisone will now be civilly committed…”

I don’t understand why so many people are in such a hurry for MB to be released. According to the defense experts, he has had 40 some years of mental illness that culminated in the act which landed him where he is today. Over all those years, he obviously did not get the psychiatric support he needed to prevent a psychotic break down. Having friends who highly regard him did not help him. Indeed, a friend who is a psychiatric therapist provided him with a weapon. His friends saw him delusional and balled up in a fetal position and did not seek immediate help for him.

He is now getting the help he needs, is in a safe environment to protect him in his fragile emotional state. Getting some pills and a couple months of therapy surely isn’t enough to expect him to be all better and ready to go back into handling all the stresses of a normal life. I would think he needs the tools to handle stress and you can’t cram that into 2 or 3 months after a lifetime of issues. He successfully hid the extent of his mental issues from many people all his life.

And it appears from the continued threads here that many people want him to get out and continue his “war” with LK and her family. That doesn’t seem very supportive.

You are entitled to your opinion but I have no idea where you came up with your war comment. It’s weird. And antiquated as it’s not 3 years ago.

And yes he will be released.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Sdel

@CurrentlyHorseless

He is not required to express remorse. But how is it not a contradiction to say “I now understand rationally that I should not have shot her, since I am no longer insane and delusional, but nevertheless I still feel no remorse”?

Maybe LK will get an apology once she apologizes for all her actions that contributed to the shooting. After all, she caused the break that resulted in his delusional state to begin with.

Did I miss the part of your posts where you call for her to own up to how wrong her behavior was and apologize to MB and MHG for putting them through this?

I have not “called for” MB to express remorse for having shot and nearly killed someone. I’ve just pointed out that he hasn’t expressed remorse, and that his understanding that his shooting her was wrong, IMHO, would be relevant to whether he is, or isn’t, still delusional.

I think LK made bad choices and contributed to the crisis MB experienced in the summer of 2019. I don’t think she alone “caused” the mental break down, or that her objective was to cause a mental breakdown. I don’t think her intention was to cause a mental breakdown, to cause him to shoot her and almost but not quite kill her so that she could sue him and take the farm.

Unlike MB, LK is not facing a Krol hearing to determine whether she can be released from a secure psychiatric facility without undue risk to the public.

This thread is not about LK, it’s about MB and the Krol hearing.

[Warmblood1]

@SierraMist

I don’t understand why so many people are in such a hurry for MB to be released. According to the defense experts, he has had 40 some years of mental illness that culminated in the act which landed him where he is today. Over all those years, he obviously did not get the psychiatric support he needed to prevent a psychotic break down. Having friends who highly regard him did not help him. Indeed, a friend who is a psychiatric therapist provided him with a weapon. His friends saw him delusional and balled up in a fetal position and did not seek immediate help for him.

There is a lot to unpack here.

Fortunately, mental illness is not enough to institutionalize or incarcerate someone. That has been established. Can you imagine institutionalizing everyone with depression? With OCD? ADD/ADHA? Etc., etc?

I would argue that MB had no criminal record, no prior institutionalization, was a very successful rider and business person, and maintained whatever issues he had going on psychologically quite well. You can’t have those things while being psychologically unstable.

The person that loaned him a gun was a mental health professional. But perhaps that person also believed in MB’s right to self defense. Perhaps since MB had been a stable and successful person, she believed the gun would be used responsibly. I’m not convinced he didn’t and that the possibility he used the gun in self defense still exist. Self defense is a constitutional right.

And as far as his friends being held responsible - should we all hold our acquaintances responsible for our own behavior?

[Sdel]

@Joanne

@SierraMist

And it appears from the continued threads here that many people want him to get out and continue his “war” with LK and her family.

Raise your hand if you feel this statement is true.

I may be missing something, but we have been discussing his release and potential to go back to riding, training, and giving clinics and the possible road blocks to his release. Several of us have expressed hopes that civil trial would go away, but it is becoming ever more clear with the increased rantings on SM by the plaintiff, it is an unlikely outcome at this time.

Maybe what SIerraMist is trying to suggest is that LK is trying to get out of her civil suit and MB won’t let her by refusing to drop his counterclaim? Surely she isn’t a part of MB’s inner circle in order to know what his close supporters are encouraging MB to do.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Knights_Mom

@SierraMist

@ekat

I think it’s important to note, though, that MB hasn’t actually been committed yet. He’s being held pending evaluation to determine if he should be.

I find this an odd statement in that Judge Taylor stated in the verdict video, at around 10:20, “…Mr. Barisone will now be civilly committed…”

I don’t understand why so many people are in such a hurry for MB to be released. According to the defense experts, he has had 40 some years of mental illness that culminated in the act which landed him where he is today. Over all those years, he obviously did not get the psychiatric support he needed to prevent a psychotic break down. Having friends who highly regard him did not help him. Indeed, a friend who is a psychiatric therapist provided him with a weapon. His friends saw him delusional and balled up in a fetal position and did not seek immediate help for him.

He is now getting the help he needs, is in a safe environment to protect him in his fragile emotional state. Getting some pills and a couple months of therapy surely isn’t enough to expect him to be all better and ready to go back into handling all the stresses of a normal life. I would think he needs the tools to handle stress and you can’t cram that into 2 or 3 months after a lifetime of issues. He successfully hid the extent of his mental issues from many people all his life.

And it appears from the continued threads here that many people want him to get out and continue his “war” with LK and her family. That doesn’t seem very supportive.

You are entitled to your opinion but I have no idea where you came up with your war comment. It’s weird. And antiquated as it’s not 3 years ago.

And yes he will be released.

Three years ago he, in a state of delusion, said or texted, “this is war” and shot someone.

The whole point of the Krol hearing is to determine whether he is, or isn’t, still delusional.

[trubandloki]

@Warmblood1

If it becomes a hygienic issue then that is different. But the priority is not having a nice haircut.

There is a big difference between having a nice hair cut and treating people like humans.
Only allowing hair cuts for hygiene reasons is not treating them like humans.

[ekat]

Just a little bit of NJ legal history in case anyone is as nerdy as me.

The reason State V Krol made it to the NJ Supreme Court was because he was committed and deprived of his civil liberties without due process.

Prior to 1975, in NJ, the jury decided the verdict and the subsequent disposition (if necessary) of the defendant. In Krol’s case, the jury found him NGRI and committed him.

The Supreme Court, on appeal, decided that he was stripped of the right to present any evidence that he was a continuing danger to himself and/or the public.

In their decision, they removed that decision making process from the jury, and required NJ to establish steps to ensure that a NGRI acquittee would receive an evaluation and a hearing to determine any appropriate level of release or commitment.

For MB’s case, he is currently “committed” for the sake of the evaluation that will determine whether or not he meets the legal requirements for true commitment, conditional release, or full release. No one, as of yet, has determined he should be committed. Judge T only ordered that he be held for evaluation, per the Krol decision.

There’s committed and “committed” with different meanings.

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

The whole point of the Krol hearing is to determine whether he is, or isn’t, still delusional.

No, it is not. He can be as delusional as the sky is blue, as long as he does not pose a risk of danger to himself or the public in the reasonably foreseeable future. That is the entire point of a Krol hearing. His current risk.

[trubandloki]

@ekat

The reason State V Krol

I kept thinking that Krol was some weird word I had just never experienced in life and that is why I did not really know it. But it, like so many legal things is the last name of someone. Until you posted this sentence I had not realized that was the case.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Sdel

@CurrentlyHorseless

He is not required to express remorse. But how is it not a contradiction to say “I now understand rationally that I should not have shot her, since I am no longer insane and delusional, but nevertheless I still feel no remorse”?

Maybe LK will get an apology once she apologizes for all her actions that contributed to the shooting. After all, she caused the break that resulted in his delusional state to begin with.

Did I miss the part of your posts where you call for her to own up to how wrong her behavior was and apologize to MB and MHG for putting them through this?

I have not “called for” MB to express remorse for having shot and nearly killed someone. I’ve just pointed out that he hasn’t expressed remorse, and that his understanding that his shooting her was wrong, IMHO, would be relevant to whether he is, or isn’t, still delusional.

I think LK made bad choices and contributed to the crisis MB experienced in the summer of 2019. I don’t think she alone “caused” the mental break down, or that her objective was to cause a mental breakdown. I don’t think her intention was to cause a mental breakdown, to cause him to shoot her and almost but not quite kill her so that she could sue him and take the farm.

Unlike MB, LK is not facing a Krol hearing to determine whether she can be released from a secure psychiatric facility without undue risk to the public.

This thread is not about LK, it’s about MB and the Krol hearing.

I would never in a billion years apologize if I were him. The entire idea is ludicrous. There is still not one iota of proof he shot her - intentionally or not. As far as I’m concerned MB was jumped and in the melee the gun discharged.

Soon he will be free living his best life and in very high demand from all appearances.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Joanne

@SierraMist

And it appears from the continued threads here that many people want him to get out and continue his “war” with LK and her family.

Raise your hand if you feel this statement is true.

I think a slightly modified version is true. People who consider themselves his supporters 1) want him released, and 2) those supporters want to continue their SM war with LK and her family. It is not clear whether MB himself wants to continue the war. If his delusions have been vanquished, I would guess not.

IMHO, the motivation for continuing the war is because some people think trashing someone is fun, they dislike LK for their own reasons, or they think tearing down LK, and her family, and anyone who expresses empathy for her, somehow “helps” MB.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Knights_Mom

@SierraMist

@ekat

I think it’s important to note, though, that MB hasn’t actually been committed yet. He’s being held pending evaluation to determine if he should be.

I find this an odd statement in that Judge Taylor stated in the verdict video, at around 10:20, “…Mr. Barisone will now be civilly committed…”

I don’t understand why so many people are in such a hurry for MB to be released. According to the defense experts, he has had 40 some years of mental illness that culminated in the act which landed him where he is today. Over all those years, he obviously did not get the psychiatric support he needed to prevent a psychotic break down. Having friends who highly regard him did not help him. Indeed, a friend who is a psychiatric therapist provided him with a weapon. His friends saw him delusional and balled up in a fetal position and did not seek immediate help for him.

He is now getting the help he needs, is in a safe environment to protect him in his fragile emotional state. Getting some pills and a couple months of therapy surely isn’t enough to expect him to be all better and ready to go back into handling all the stresses of a normal life. I would think he needs the tools to handle stress and you can’t cram that into 2 or 3 months after a lifetime of issues. He successfully hid the extent of his mental issues from many people all his life.

And it appears from the continued threads here that many people want him to get out and continue his “war” with LK and her family. That doesn’t seem very supportive.

You are entitled to your opinion but I have no idea where you came up with your war comment. It’s weird. And antiquated as it’s not 3 years ago.

And yes he will be released.

Three years ago he, in a state of delusion, said or texted, “this is war” and shot someone.

The whole point of the Krol hearing is to determine whether he is, or isn’t, still delusional.

You still are not paying attention. Ekat has explained this to you.